The Top 3 Washers And Dryers As Rated By Consumers

339292_42409818-basket-in-hand.jpg Purchasing washers and dryers is a unique situation for every buyer.  There are plenty of different styles and models that will work for each person.  One person may want a top loader that is as big as they come while another may want a much smaller unit.  You may be interested in energy efficiency while someone else is much more budget conscious in purchasing the best quality for their money.  Nevertheless, several models of the newest washers and dryers are still rated highly among consumers who have bought and used them.


3 Top Rated Choices
Here is a look at some of the top rated washers and dryers available to you today.
Kenmore He
Although it costs more than other models that are similar to it, the Kenmore HE (3t 42933) offers a variety of benefits that consumers like.  The energy savings is one of the best features of them all. It uses only 15.8 gallons of water during a standard cycle which is considerably lower than other models.  It uses less electricity as well which cuts down on two energy costs in the average home considerably. It is a large 3.7 cubic foot machine which means that it can handle large family needs.  It also has been noted for its ability to clean clothing well, removing more debris, stains and odors from the clothing.  Other key area that is being raved about in this Sears model washer (dryer to match get superior ratings as well) includes its ability to keep clothing in tack, with less wear and tear on it.
LG Steam Washer
Another machine that is seeing rave reviews from consumers is the LG Steam Washer and Dryer (WM2487HWM) from LG Electronics.  It is a front loading machine with all of the latest features on it.  In addition, though, it features a steam wash.  This particular wash is beneficial to those looking for a permanent press as they would get from the dry cleaner.  It can easily and delicately clean clothing that would otherwise require a trip to the dry cleaner (restrictions apply; make sure you check the manual for particulars here before purchasing it.)  The largest downfall of this unit is its price which is about $1300.  Nevertheless, the pair together is designed to provide for highly efficient use with a variety of settings, even the ability to program your own “ideal” setting that you can use as you see fit.  The washer has a drum size of 4.0 cubic feet, which is very large.
GE Front Loaders
The GE front load washer and dryer is another ideal pair with their ability to maximize energy efficiency, say most consumers that have rated them. The unit uses much less electricity and less water than any top loading machine.  This pair (models DBVH512EF/GF and WBVH6240F) is designed to be high efficiency machines.  The benefit here is in the way of cost, with these units being slightly lower in price than other similar units but still providing the high end quality wash and dry that you want.   The size of the unit is smaller to fit into tight locations.
Finding the right washer and dryer is a personal choice, though.  Compare other models to determine if they offer a better fit for your particular needs.

786 Comments For This Post

  1. Jill Says:


  2. Christine Says:

    Why are the front loaders just generally more efficient than the top loaders? How efficent are the “Energy Star” top loaders compared to the front loaders?

  3. joan dalton Says:

    I read something once that remarked how white laundry was when slapped on rocks, as women in third world countries do.
    The article said that side loaders replicate that action, just getting clothing wet and tumbing them.
    There should be energy star ratings on the machines in the stores, so you can do your own comparison.
    I called my local Home Depot and asked for the energy star rating. The salesperson told me the rating was for both washer and dryer. They were displayed together and the energy star stand up display spanned both machines.
    I later found that this was wrong, that the dryers were the biggest energy users and manufacturers were not yet required to meet government standards, so they are terrible energy drainers.
    I hate when sales people assume you are stupid and will lie to you to make a sale. Our local Radio Shack does that, as well.
    It is best to research everything you can online before purchasing anything.
    People say they use the steam machines instead of sending clothing to the dry cleaners. I contacted Whirlpool about their new steam machines and they replied they do not recommend their machines for even WASHABLE silks.
    I have the Whirlpool duet side loaders, not the new ones with steam.
    They make the Sears Kenmores, so they are very similar.
    I love these machines. My whites come out so much whiter than they did in my old clunker.
    I think I will stick to Whirlpool when I get a steam machine, and am somewhat surprised that they are not mentioned here.

  4. cat Says:

    I have had the misfortune of purchasing the GE Profile washer and dryer. After owning it for under a month the washer broke and flooded the basement where I live. The store I purchased these units at was kind enough to exchange for the GE frontloaders.

    We paid to have them delivered and installed. The washer does not wring out the water efficiently, making me wonder how they could be so energy efficient. I usually have to run the dryer twice to get some loads dry.

    I am discusted with the way it washes large loads or my floor mats.

    So if I can save anyone heartache, stay away from GE products!! Their customer service is not helpful in anyway for products that do not work well, nor are they helpful if your basement is flooded by their machines. Thank god we went with tile floor!!

    I wish I would have purchased Maytag again…

  5. joan dalton Says:

    Cat, thank you for the heads up on GE.
    I will be sure to stay away from them.
    I am sorry the rest of us have to learn from your misfortune.

  6. Thelma in Dallas Says:

    I bought the new Whirlpool Duet Front Loader with steam. This machine did not work from day one!!! I took a day off from work to receive and install this machine. After all my efforts, it did not work. I called Whirlpool, which sent out a repairman two days later. I took another day off from work to meet him, and he informed me the machine had defective parts. He called me five days later and informed me the parts were not readily available. I called Whirlpool and explained I had not washed a single load in this machine, so I wanted a new unit. They stated their policy is to repair not to replace. It has been four weeks since I was last able to wash using my old machine…no sign of the replacements parts for the new machine yet.

  7. Gwen Says:

    Report them to the Better Business Bureau where you live. This is rediculous that you have never been able to use it. If you paid for it on a credit card dispute the charge. That will make them do something if they don’t get their money.

  8. joan dalton Says:

    This is a lesson on using credit cards for large purchases, and not debit cards. With credit cards you have a chance of stopping payment. Corporations love debit cards because they get their cash immediately, or so I’ve been told. Also, with a cash back credit card, you are actually gaining something, if you pay the card in full at each bill and avoid their high finance charges.

  9. darryl Says:

    fisher and paykel washer and dryer nothing but junk.

  10. Debbie Says:

    what about this mold and mildew problem? Has it been corrected by new designs, or is it still an issue? Are some worse than others? I’d love a front load, but not if they’re still a problem.

  11. joan dalton Says:

    I believe that no machine that uses water, unless it blows hot air, can remove all the water at each cycle. When I had a dishwasher with no hot air cycle I would see a bit of water left after the cycle was over. I have always left the lid or door open on an unused washing machine and the soap drawer, as well.

    I would suspect that under the drum of top loaders there might be an amount of water left that was not drained.

    I do wish consumer review magazines and online functions would review stuff like this. It is hardly mentioned, in fact, I have only seen it brought up here and it is a health issue. Who wants fungal contamination – or perhaps an attractor to insects?

    Earlier I was lauding the benefits of purchasing by credit card, so long as you can pay in full each month. This way, you can cancel the payment on a piece of junk until you are made whole. It is easier than bringing the offending company to court. The Better Business Bureau, I am told, is paid for with money from the people they are supposed to be policing, and they also used to only keep a complaint on their books for 3 months, which is not that long. I would contact the attorney general’s office in the state of the company headquarters. Some attny’s general offices are very involved in consumer rip offs in their states.

    I sometimes check the return policies on stores in which I intend to purchase an item and compare stores on that basis. My husband bought a notebook computer from one large store, even purchasing the store’s extended waranty. The thing broke and he had a really bad time with everyone pointing fingers to say someone else was responsible and then the laptop mfg said they would fix it and it was the longest wait. I do a lot of business with B&H which is usually near the lowest price, but if something went wrong, they replaced it, no problem. If you can prove another box/street store sells it for less, they will match the price.

    Sometimes a small local store, if they still exist, is very good with service.

    Even the best brands sometimes manufacture a dud, so the reputation of the store should also be a factor.

  12. mudpie Says:

    I have had the same Asko Washer and Dryer for 13 years. We had a front loader before most people in the US even knew what is was. That being said. The quality is excellent, but expensive, and customer service is very poor. Stay clear of Akso-for the customer service.

  13. meaghan Says:

    how much energy does my ge front load dryer really use when i leave the power button on, but it’s not running. I need a little help with a household dispute ;)

  14. meaghan Says:

    how much energy does my ge front load dryer really use when i leave the power button on, but it’s not running. I need a little help with a household dispute ;)

  15. Cindy Says:

    Is there actually a washer/dryer set that is worth uying. With all the negative reviews how do I know which one to buy. A year ago I bought a top of the line Fisher & Paykel Intuitive set. The washer tub chewed up my clothes from the start. Just last week the dryer quit heating. It wouldn’t be so bad because it did come with a two year warranty, but the salesman has been rude and condescending to me, as though I were imagining the problems. I am on the vege of selling the set and getting something else. But what?

  16. Jack Says:

    I think jill’s post (the first one at the top) is hilarious. Instead of hitting the print button she commented it.

  17. Greg Says:

    The energy savings in front load systems is driven by the washing machine.
    Top loads will use as much as 35 – 40 gallons of water per cycle and frontloads will use around 15. Additional savings show up in the form of less water used, less water to heat and less detergent to dispense.
    We purchased the GE system. The washer spin cycle operates at approximately 1300 RPMs (Revolutions Per Minute) vs. 500 RPM on traditional top-loads. So if you’re using an older top load machine your cloths will come out of a frontload machine dryer. Less water usage (hot and cold) combined with dryer cloths, equals lower overall energy use and lower detergent costs.
    Another feature I believe will benefit our household is the steam feature. Today we average $50 per month in dry cleaning costs. Our hope is that we can reduce those costs to near $0.
    Purchasing a front load system is a major investment ($3000), however, with the tax credits and rebates being offered we believe that over time we’ll be ahead financially and certainly ahead environmentally.

  18. Kristina Says:

    Greg: What tax credits?

  19. Greg Says:

    When I filed my taxes this year I was asked if I had purchased any energy effecient appliances, I had not, so I had to pass on the deduction. I’m assuming it will be an option again next year and if so I plan to take advantage of it.

    For more detail I would have to go back into my taxes to see where the credit was actually addressed. If you would like me to research it I can.

  20. Anna Says:

    When I saw the tax credit discussion, I researched it. Some energy star appliances do qualify but there are no washers or dryers on the list. Most appliances are for HVAC, windows, doors, insulation, etc. You can see the Energy Star website for more info. Too bad!

  21. Tom Says:

    Let’s see. You can buy or keep in repair your old reliable top-load conventional washer and dryer of proven design (say, Whirlpool top-load direct-drive model, same design since 1985). A washer dryer will cost about $750, less for scratch & dent. On the average both will last 8-10 years, sometimes more, before needing major repair. When they do break, you can readily get parts at reasonable cost and any repair tech (or even yourself, if you can use hand tools) can fix the washer/dryer.

    OR you can pay $1000-$2200 or more for a new, color-coordinated high-efficiency consumer washer and dryer set that saves electricity and water. But because the high-spin design puts more load on the bearings, and because electronic controls (usually sourced from China) are part of the design, they last only about five years before major repair. When they do need repair, just a new electric motherboard can cost $500-600 – IF you don’t mind waiting a few weeks for parts. Or parts may no longer be stocked for it AT ALL because of constant model redesigns. So you pay another $1000-$2000 for a new matched HE washer/dryer set – every five years or so.

    Which method do YOU think saves the most money over the long haul??? WISE UP, PEOPLE?

  22. Chris Says:

    I could not agree more with Tom’s comments. I lived in Germany and still have family there, so I have a lot of experience with front load washers (that’ all they have). I also had a front load washer here. Whenever my family visits, they always comment on how they wish they could buy American top load washers. Much easier to use, clean cloths better and bigger than German FLs.

    The problem with front load washers is in the basic design. They don’t use enough water to rinse away the scum that builds up on the top part of the outter drum. That’s what caused the fungal build up and bad smell. Top loaders don’t have that problem. Remember, water is what clean. Detergent helps water to be more effiecient. Whirlpool top loaders have a proven design, are simple to use, don’t have expensive electronics and last forever. I just replaced mine after 18 years of use with not one service call. The new one is very similar. NO THANKS TO FRONT LOADERS…

  23. Karen Says:

    I bought a pair of Whirpool: the Gas Dryer is fine, but the Front Loaded Wahser Machine broke after 3 months of use . I figured out
    the mechanism built inside (open the top cover lid, will see it) is not good design, it made by plastic, and its stiffness is low. Due to plastic made, there is high tolerance yields, and when it moves it got bended and stuck. there is little plastic pin sticking out that to stop the shaft when it comes on a circular path. I just increased the pin dia, by add a thin ring around it. and Problem solved. However, I will never buy the whirpool again.

    Another comment is that: it is good to save the electricity but to save water is option; sometime I need to wash the cloth with more water into drum, but the program is locked with limit amount of water! considering you have cloth wiht more dirts, little water can not help ! Too Bad,,that most non-conventional wahser machines have the option of water level ,,,

    I hope you all get my message !

    Karen – a Design Engineer

  24. Karen Says:

    btw, sorry for the typo, in the previous message, I’d to add this comment as a correct as well.

    it is good to design a wahser machine with option of water level;
    (this water level option should be the desirable water to be added, not extra rise time to be extended)
    - The door lock should be well design and safe, I like Kenmore, but
    recently I see the front door designed is less safety, a child standing nearby may have fingers trapped in nearby the hinge!

    -Anyone knows about the quality of Samsung ?

  25. Joan Dalton Says:

    We have had our Whirlpool which was the top of the line at the time. It has a steel barrel. We keep the door and tray open when not in use. We have never had a problem with cleaning or smell.

    If we did have a scum build up we would use vinegar. Our machine is rare in that you can use regular detergent or HE. We always use HE to prevent scum buildup.

    We really love our machine. I am so happy that we chose it.

  26. Jeff Oswalt Says:

    We have had Whirlpool Duet Washer and Dryer for about 5 years. The dryer stopped working properly after 6 months. Numerous service calls over a couple of years, (extended Warranty) they replaced it due to lack of parts availability. The washer has had mold issues since new. The detergent tray has and front seal has been replaced 4 times. We have had other problems with them. We always leave the door open and the tray open to dry properly but nothing seems to help. Clothes no longer smell clean the the dryer takes as long and the old non-HE that it replaced. We loved them for the first six months but now hate them . The Washer is no broken again and waiting for the technician. They are now out of warranty and we have dreaded this day. The stupid washer wont even turn on anymore. Not lights no nothing. Look like we will be in the market for some old fashioned top machines.

  27. Joan Dalton Says:

    Gee, Jeff, I guess we are just lucky.
    You would think if you had repair records for all those times that they had not repaired it properly under the warrenty and are STILL responsible.
    Does your state have a Consumers Advocate or maybe you could contact your Attorney General’s office and they could do something to help you. They might have other such complaints.
    I know there are stores in my area that have the reputation of selling second inventory merchandise – stuff that was returned but repaired in a back room and sold again.
    I am sorry to hear you’re going through all that.

  28. Doc K Says:

    The issue with mold is a big deal. Two major manufacturers of front loaders have class action suits filed due to mold contamination of washers and clothing. You can minimize this by keeping the door open (except Electrolux because their interior light stays on) or by periodically running a bleach cycle without laundry (if your washer permits). There are some aftermarket cleaners that may help. You can avoid the problem by buying a Samsung that can place silver ions in the wash. The silver ions kill bacteria and mold.

  29. appliancejournal Says:

    Good info, Doc! Thanks.

  30. Joan Dalton Says:

    I have a mold sensitivity and have had no problem with my HeWhirlpool. I don’t close the door or try when inactive. I also leave my dishwasher ajar. I suspect anything that contains water of harboring mold.

    I did not realize that silver also killed mold. THank you.

  31. Ashley H Says:

    JUST A WORD OF ADVICE FOR MOBILE HOMES OR CONVENTIONAL HOUSING- front loaders are not meant for these types of homes. I have a mobile home and purchased front loading washer and dryer from sears and although I loved the washer and dryer the spin cycle shook the entire home – when I called the company they told me that I should have been informed by the sears associate that these machines are not meant for upstairs, mobile homes, or conventional housing (on concrete blocks) because of their power in the spin cycle. I was very dissapointed to send them back for my regular washer and dryer and that is why I would like to know if the new Steam Washer and Dryers have a spin cycle or not?

  32. Eric Says:

    The GE washers have issues…if the circuit board which rest on top of the motor goes out, you must replace the entire motor because you cannot detach the circuit board from the motor. The cost just for this part is $200. This is such a waste of a good motor and a very poor design in putting the circuit board on top of a hot motor.

  33. pamc Says:

    I purchased a Maytag stacking w/d set in 1984. We had a leak once on the washer which cost $200.00 to repair and the heating element in the dryer went out once which my husband repaired for around 60.00. It’s still going strong to this day,however, I can’t put in anything really heavy like a load of just towels or levi’s as it goes off balance but other than that I love it. I’m scared to buy something these days based on all the comments!

  34. Barb Says:

    We just returned from washer/dryer shopping again…no luck. I have a top loading Inglis washer that is 14 years old and works fine however I require a new dryer. After looking at the dryers on their own we though it might be better to replace the whole team now…until I read about mold issues and frequent breakdowns. We were acually very close to purchasing a GE team until we were offered the extended warranty…the sales person explained that this was a good investment considering major appliances only lasted on average 8 years!. Can anyone offer an opinion on the Samsung models? or recommend a good dryer on it’s own?

  35. Sandy Says:

    I purchased the GE front end washer and dryer set in May 2007. It had only a 1 year warranty and because it was rated so high by consumers and the store was going out of business and didn’t offer an extended warranty, I didn’t get one. This week, 2-1/2 years later, the washer started making a terrible noise. Repair man at $197.00 for the service call, tells me it will be over $800 to repair, just about the cost to replace. Not getting another GE, didn’t hold up and warranty wasn’t very good.

  36. Joan Dalton Says:

    People might consider holding off in the purchase of a new dryer because the washers are now environmentally friendly and energy saving due to government regulations.

    Dryers are still pretty much the way they have been decades ago, regarding energy efficiency, from what I have heard.

    I read that there is a deadline for the same thing to happen to dryers, but forgot when that is.

  37. Danita Says:

    After one week of having two brand new Kenmore He steam washers and dryer, I have returned everything to the vender. The washer’s door would not open when plugged or unplugged on both (the new and replacement washer), test cycle could be conducted, delay cycle could not be over written, reboot failed, and my laundry room served as storage while the vender’s customer service reps and technicians made every attempt to convince me to work with them on troubleshooting the issues. I have heard it all from the mother board need to be reprogrammed, select another wash cycle, to leaving the washer unplug for 8 hours. All of this for a new washer, what, please I can’t be patient any longer. In search of front load washer and dryer!!!

  38. Louise Says:

    Don’t buy the Kenmore HE Elite Front Load Washer. HE3t Elite model #44832 broke after only 4 years. The parts alone are over $500.00. Kenmore repair service wanted to charge $1200 to fix it.

    It’s not like the old days. You can NOT trust Sears!

  39. Craig Says:

    Forget front loaders. What brand of top loaders and dryers are recommended? I have whirlpool now and both of them have had to be repaired. They still don’t work properly.

    Isn’t there a company out there that feels a good reputation for many years from loyal consumers is worth more than a couple of years of profit from pissed off consumers.

  40. Sandy Says:

    FRONT LOAD WASHERS? Wow, What a P.I.A. I have had mine for about 2 yrs now, I am now facing my 3rd break down! Each have been “Stupid” issues, But have Totally Disabled the Washer, until the part can be Ordered, Delivered & then Installed! Clothes get pretty Ripe after a 6 week or so without being washed.!! What do you do while awaiting this repair process?? Laundry Mat? That is Such an Expense, Could have bought 3 washers for the price of that service. I have one comment to make: I love being able to do Large Items/Loads in the front loader… BUT, a Top Loader ‘CAN BE’ used – With Certain Issues going on, they dont just leave you Instantly Stranded!!!! Think I will go buy a couple Top Loaders & Take my “In Need of Another Repair” Front Loader -

  41. ary Says:

    Dear Barb: we recently (last week) purchased a Samsung 419 steam front load washer at sears. It was delivered this friday (today is tuesday) and been using it all weekend to try. I personally think it cleans really well. It takes a LONG time to wash in normal cycles (about an hour to 1:30 min.). But it works great. Also it has lots of options like steam, and the silver Ions that someone commented earlier. I previously had a top load Maytag Atlantis which I absolutely loved!! I wish I could have bought that one all over again though just for one reason: even tough the RPMS for the spin cycle in the samsung are 1200 and it has different settings for the force of the spin, it still leaves the clothes a lot weter than my old top load maytag did. Can somebody explain this??

    I already called samsung, they will send somebody to check it soon (or so they said). I am very disappointed for this reason only, because the dryer takes longer to dry and I have to run it twice sometimes. The people at Samsung said that should not happen, but we’ll see. The problem now is that if I take it back, sears will charge a 15% re-stocking fee which i think is ridiculous for something that doesn’t work the way is supposed to. If someone can offer advise on this I will greatly appretiate it. Thank you. Ary

  42. Edith Says:

    I’ve had my Whirlpool top load washer and dryer since 2004. They clean and dry really well, however, my towels look like they’ve been scratched by hysterical cats! I can’t tell which of the two machines is doing this. I’ve checked for errand tooth pics, screws, paper clips and any rough spots on the interior of both machines. Whirlpool said they have not heard of this. I’m totally puzzled why this is happening. I have a closet full of beautiful towels that I can’t use because I know what they will look like after several washings. It only happens with terry cloth, no other fabrics are affected. Has anyone heard of this? None of my co workers have. I’m about ready to shop for new machines, but don’t know what “feature” to avoid that may be causing this problem.

  43. confused Says:


  44. Woody Says:

    Consumer Opionions.

    Yes, I can say something good about front loaders.

    As a large authorized repair center (30 employees) for major brands like Whirlpool, Maytag, Amana, JennAir, LG, etc I enjoyed reading these posts. I often wonder who these “consumers” are that rate these appliances. I personally rate appliances on three thing. 1. Does it do the job it was designed for? (wash dry etc.) 2. Will it last a long time. 3. If it breaks down what will it cost to fix it? Of course if you call Sears for the last one you can pretty much be assured it going to be expensive. (Hell-o, Sears, did you purchase our maintainance agreement?)

    Our employees are able to purchase most products at personal use pricing which is well below retail or sale prices. At this posting ALL but 1 of the technicians and 4 of the office staff now own Bosch laundry and they all love them.

    No product is perfect, yes you may find posts elsewhere that disagee with our experience. But these laundry pieces (and the Bosch dishwasher)are well made, do the job without a lot of gimicks (like steam), and are not expensive to repair.

    Many people equate Kenmore into Whirlpool as the manufacture. In recent years this is no longer true. In fact most of the high end laundry with the Kenmore name is now LG. As an LG servicer we find customers are mostly pleased with their LG producsts (except the dishwasher is a dog). The replacement parts for the LG products concerns me as LG is the only source for repair parts. Several times they have been unable to ship to anyone due to various problems like computors, holidays etc and there is NOWHERE to get parts so we just have to wait. The price for some of these parts is outrageous. I hope you find this information useful.

  45. Walt Says:


    Good info, thanks. What is your take on the total cost of operation for a front loader versus a top loader? Purchase price, repair cost, water cost, energy cost, and life expectancy? Is a Bosch front loader economical on a total cost basis? I’m all for saving water and energy, but building parts for repair or replacing machines will use far more water and energy than I can save with a front loader. If your folks had to pay retail-like prices, would they still love their Bosch front loaders?
    Our Maytag top loader is 27 years old, and the more I read about the new gear, the better it looks. Listen, I even think it sounds better!

  46. Eve Says:

    Thank you for your post. I completely agree with Confused. I’ve been researching washers on a number of sites and I’m extremely concerned that I’m about to waste $1,000 on something that will break and be worthless right after the warranty expires. My mom and mother-in-law each bought a Kenmore HE3 when they first came out and have never had a problem. I wish I’d bought one when they did.

  47. Woody Says:

    At this point in the equation, regarding energy savings is mute topic except when you compare against the older top loaders like the Maytag which obviously use more water. Comparing one front loader to another is not going to realized any measurable savings one vs. another. But your question about top loaders vs. front loaders and costs, the front loaders win hands down now.

    Less water, less detergent and other additives, better extraction so drying times are reduced (more savings), better rinsing.

    A little more difficult to work on, especially with the pedestals installed but less moving parts. But less moving parts to wear out.
    Most major failures of front loader is caused by incorrect types and amounts of detergents.

    Look closely at the energy tags. HOW MUCH MORE engergy savings do they want to milk out of these things?

    Walt’s Maytag. Now there is a work horse who the industry and the government killed. We always repaired them when needed because they would still run for years after that. Sorry, those days are gone.

  48. Betsy Says:

    Now, all that reading was entertaining… with all the stores having sales and NY having an enery rebate on washers I was thinking about replacing mine ( Walt, I agree !!! My Maytag pair was bought in 1984 and except for a noise on spin cycle of the washer ( only recently), they both work great.) However, the noise concerns me… so, I was looking for info… my co-worker has Bosch and after a year has had nothing but problems and w/3 kids has been going to the laundry mat – cant’ fix it, no parts, etc, blah blah blah, more excuses. But it sounds like any brand ( make that every brand ? ) has problems… yikes.

  49. Woody Says:

    Besty, “one bad apple doesn’t spoil the whole bunch girl”.

    Bosch builds a European version of their product called the Axis. The larger more common machine was the NEXXT and is now called Vison. I have heard many stories of parts not being available etc for every brand. Usually when investigated closer it was not the manufacture, but the repair company (usually not authorized) that was the delay.

    Bosch has a website for authorized service companies and distributors to use. I can, any time day or night, log on and research any model and INSTANTLY know if they can provide the part. If the part is not available I can contact customer relations thorough a dedicated line for service companies and request assistance locating the part. In addition there is a free service for service companies in which placement of a single part number into a data base will search many of the independent parts distributors for availablity. Cool huh!

    Your noise in you Maytag may be from water leakage under the tub which may have gotten into the spin bearing. You can remove the front easily to see if there are signs of this. If so, considering the age of your machine, yes, you may want to replace it. If that is not the cause, just keep using it till it dies.

    Good Luck

  50. J Says:

    After reading all these reviews I’m starting to think we should all go back to hand-washing and drying our clothes. Just bought a pair of LGs yesterday and after reading all the reviews I’m pretty anxious to reverse my order.

    Is there any one company that has “less” isuees than the others?

  51. ary Says:

    Dear J, I recently wrote a review about a Samsung 419 front loader. It didn’t spin the clothes enough so they would come out pretty wet still. The Samsung service never called me back until a week after, which I was not going to wait that long so I called Sears. Sales person at Sears was very very appologetic of our problem and said that shouldn’t happen with the washer. So we decided to return it and exchange it for a LG 2101. It doesn’t have as many technologically advanced cleaning features as the samsung, but it cleans great and it spins the clothes very very good. I’m very happy with it, I’ve had it for about 2 1/2 weeks and so far so good. I used to have a Maytag Atlantis and honestly I think these front loaders do a much better job at cleaning the clothes. I was in love with my top loader maytag, but now I am begining to fall in love with this front loader. So I wouldn’t regret getting those LG’s.

  52. Woody Says:

    Dear J,

    I guess you just passed over my post. We deal with over 100 service calls A DAY. For the time being there is nothing going into any of our homes in laundry except Bosch.

    LG has a problem. If they make a mistake on the service company parts account they won’t ship parts until it is rectified. They have NO regard for the customer who needs the part. Until this policy is resolved I can no longer recommend LG.

  53. irena Says:

    boy am I glad to come upon this post. I do indeed need to buy both a washer and dryer and am scared straight. Paying someone upward of $2000 for something that will not deliver….
    best set according to good housekeeping:
    LG SteamWasher with Allergiene; Model # WM3001 ($1,699 – $1,799)
    LG SteamDryer with TrueSteam; Model # DLG3002 / DLEX3001 ($1,499 – $1,599)
    Did anyone have any experience with these?
    If you have to buy a new set which one would you go for?
    I know a lot of people like top loading but they really do not wash that good, need a lot of detergent, and often get unbalanced.
    I like the energy and water savings options for the front loading washers but do you really need all the top of the line options?
    By the way we have a lot of laundy (like 5-8 loads per week).

  54. Woody Says:

    IRENA, Please read my post just above yours. Stay away from LG. You mentioned Good Housekeeping. BOSCH has the GOOD HOUSEKEEPING seal of approval (for whatever that is worth).

    YOU DON”T NEED STEAM. You can’t remove stains like blood with steam. What would you need steam for other than to plug up and cause a service issue. You want a machine that gradually heats the water to remove stains. The best use of any kind of steam is in the dryer. Bosch has a feature called “mist care” in their dryers.

    I know I sound like a commercial, but I have used all these products in my own home and so have my customers. The women in my family (7 of them) LOVE the mist care feature and the love the stain removal feature in the Bosch as they have little children who stain everything.

    Be sure to get a model with AQUA STOP. It prevents floods should a problem occur.

  55. MovingSoon Says:

    We need to buy a new Washer/Dryer for our new upstairs laundry. Woody, I hear ya on the Bosch~ what is the Model Number for the Vision? I saw several. I want something basic. Is there a “matching” dryer? I did go to a separate website to see that various Visions received high rating 4.5-5 stars. Also, any comment on the Silver Ions in the Samsung for the Mold problem. ( we had that in our Whirlpools.)
    thank you

  56. Penny Says:

    I bought a maytag Neptune frontloader at Sears Scratch and Dent in Nashville, TN January 2001. It had been ‘repaired” I grew up with front loaders..this was from ’61 on, my elderly mother just bought her 4th front loader, a Boshe..she had a Maytag that she cursed. Both her Whirlpool frontloaders lasted close to 20 years. I had top loaders allmy married ife, Whirlpool, GE, Amana, and the best and cheapest was HOtpoint…it was ooad as could be, but lasted the longest and washed the best of my top loaders. I was only averaging 2-5 years before I’d have problems with my top loaders. I gave my last top loader (which was a GE Profile_) to my daughter in ’01, it was 2 years old, she has never had a problem. Now regarding my Maytag front loader. I loved it from day one, never had a problem till recently, I get this nasty brown stuff that looks like paper all over my cloths. I have ran the washing machine cleaners through it, it works for a short time, then the crap comes back. I have always used HE Wisk or HE Tide, but my machine allowed regular detergent also. My problem is the big rubber gasket, it has ripped, sonow I am looking for a new front loader. I have a Whirlpool dryer that is 16 yrs. old, it does have the setting that senses the dryness of one’s clothes, but it is getting up there…although I do use my clotheline in the summer. I want a large drum of over 4 cubic ft., and a steam dryer, so I can put my king size down comforter in it. I want over a 7.5 cubic ft. dryer. Any ideas? I haven’t seen a large Boshe out there.

  57. Jeff Says:

    Woody, thanks for all the info. Our Whirlpool Duet front loader washer that only 7 years old is now DOA. The rear bearing has gone out and made the drum wobble and damaged the front housing. I have decided not to spend another dime on this piece of junk. We picked up a used top loader for cheap for now to give us some time to shop. Your input is greatly appreciated. I have heard good things about Bosch. Was looking at the Samsung but didn’t want steam and that was all they were offering at the store we were at. I think I will shop for a Bosch set. I will never own another whirlpool product. Not just because of the problems with these but because of there customer service. I contacted them and about all the problems we had and all they offered was 10%off of a new set. Like I would go out and do that. Thanks again for the info.

  58. Kim Says:

    I have a stacking Maytag Neptune unit and the washer has stopped spinning. Unfortunately, the repair bill could likely be around $500, so now I am considering buying a new washer and dryer. My unit is connected so I either fix it or buy brand new. I LOVE MY FRONT LOADER. I want another front loader and read the review about buying a Bosch. My mom has a Bosch, and she gets mold around the rubber gasket. She’s probably had them for five years I guess. Is this a continuing problem or have they fixed it? If you’re recommending Bosch, what particular model do you recommend? Also, what about Frigidaire? I’m just not sure who makes what anymore. Thanks so much.

  59. Woody Says:

    If you really like your Maytag then it might be worth the price to repair it. Part of the question would be if the manufacture date and model of your Maytag. If it is a front loader then you would want to make sure it had all the updates to it.

    Mold in ANY washer is usually caused by not using HE detergents and too much detergent in the washer. Many brands have this problem when those conditions exist.

    Frigidaire made most if not all of the washers these previous posts were about. I never have recommended a Frididaire or Electrolux product to any of my customers, I am just not a fan for many reasons.

    As far as which Bosch to consider, there are not that many choices. My favorite washer right now is the WFVC6450UC and a mist care dryer. You might find you won’t use those features.
    Good luck. It’s all very confusing even for those of us very close to the products.

  60. Tina Says:

    I do not like the LG one bit, granted I bought the lower end model but the thing is they use so little water it is not enough to get the laundry clean. The LG washer dryer is TOTALLY inefficient in that you must wash for a LONG time to get things clean and always use the “extra water” feature….it’s a rip and I want to say to anyone even thinking of getting a LG combo….DON’T!

  61. Woody Says:

    Tina RE: LG

    You did say the LG COMBINATION WASHER & DRYER? Is the correct?

    If so I have yet to find ANY COMBINATION washer and dryer that satisfy a customer. These little COMBO machines are barely ok for special situations like motor homes and second laundries or limited space where nothing else works.

    You have already purchased yours so here is a tip. The tub in a regular size dryer is substantially larger than the tub of a regular or standard washer. This is such so the clothes will have room to tumble. Your combo machine, if that is what you have, uses the same tub to both wash or dry. So when you intend to wash and dry make your wash load half the size of the tub. Do not fill it.
    This will also provide more water for the wash cycle. These little combo’s weren’t made to do a very large load.

    Again, this advice is for ANY combination machine. Any combo machine I have experience with, even if they work, given much use they break down frequently. Sometimes that is better than nothing at all. Good luck

    Although not my first choice, the larger LG machines seem to have decent satisfaction rating.

    For all you Sears Kenmore fans, LG is building many of the Sears Kenmore models now. I’ll leave it up to you to know if that is good or not. As Forest Gump said “Buying an appliance with the Kenmore name on it is like a box a chocolates. You never know what you are going to get”

     lol

  62. Sue Says:

    What difference, if any, is there between Bosch’s AquaShield (6450) and AquaStop (5440)?

  63. Woody Says:

    Aqua stop is a fill hose inside a fill hose. If the inner hose breaks the hose will not let water pass through it.

    Aqua shield recognizes any water in the base pan of the washer and shuts the washer off till the problem is corrected.

    Some models have both.

    I have never seen an Aqua Stop hose fail. Aqua shield in new to the laundry but Bosch has used it in the dishwasher for a long time.
    It works!

  64. Sue Says:

    Thanks, Woody — that was quick!! The reason I asked was that you said get Aqua Stop and then recommended the 6450 (with the aquashield) rather than the 5440 (with aquastop). So am I safe with either? And is your preference for the 6450 price-driven (or is there some other feature)?

    You’ve been incredibly helpful on this thread!

  65. Woody Says:

    Value is the answer. Bosch should be having a laundry rebate the 1st of April. In February it was $200 for the 6450 … combine that with local utility rebates and it really knocks down the price in our area. I don’t know about yours.

    One thing to keep in mind though, the Bosch rebates are NOT GOOD at SEARS and LOWES.

    You can buy the Aqua Stop hoses and put them on any model but they are about $50 each. The braided hoses that come with machines without Aqua Stop are excellent. You have to chose if the feature is worth the price.

    Good Luck…

  66. Sue Says:

    If you’re ever in DC, I owe you dinner! I was just wondering re whether to hang on until next month and see whether there were new rebates.

    My 13 year old dryer is squealing and I’m looking for an excuse to upgrade a one-piece stacked washer/dryer combo I’ve always hated. But it’s not a crisis, so my first priority is to make the right decision and my second is to get the best price for the model I want.

  67. Woody Says:

    That is funny! I don’t travel East often. But I have a daughter graduating and getting her Masters Degree from Gallaudet University. If you are in DC you know that is the University for the Deaf. My daughter is not deaf but she became interested in ASL when she took it as a second language, she has a brother who is not verbal. So I AM coming to DC in May, but not to collect on your offer, but it was funny to me that you are there.

  68. Sue Says:

    How funny — is she planning on working in the area after graduation? I ask because one of my best friends is an ASL interpreter — she works freelance for everything from quasi-military high-security facilities to Grateful Dead concerts.

  69. Woody Says:

    This is off topic so I better make this one the last. She hasn’t decided yet. I know she likes D.C and she loves the deaf community. She’ll have to decide soon when the bills start coming due for her loans.

    Good luck with your Bosch. Let us all know if you feel I steered you wrong.

  70. Ann Says:

    I’m interested in purchasing a new top loader washer. Like many, it seems I’m better off keeping the Hotpoint (20 years) until it say goodbye.

    Reading J (2/15/10). “Go back to hand washing & drying our clothes”. My response is, “I do with select clothing”.
    Also, reading Penny (2/27/10). “I do use my clothesline in the summer”. My response is, “That is really old school! Ironically, I use the clothesline year round; with the exception of winter. Must wait for a windy day.”

    Yes Penny & J, we are the true Energy Savers! lol!!!

  71. Woody Says:

    If you insist on a top loader then the Whirlpool direct drive washers are the best choice. You can expect 7-10 years of life under normal use for $299 – $399 …. But the good front loaders are really the way to go now. If you got 20 years out of a Hotpoint God is watching over you anyway :)

  72. Ann Says:

    Hey Woody! Just double checked…Absolutely January 1990 and had to replace the hose twice. For how much longer, I do not know and waiting until the last second is not in my vocabulary. Yes, I have been reading other negative customer reviews with front loaders (gaskets wearing out quickly, the latch is defective, etc). Now I’m reading something entirely different here…Still apprehensive.

    Never had a major problem with top loaders. Quality merchandise began to go out the door about 20 years ago. lol!!

  73. Woody Says:

    Ann: Just like people there are good and bad. I’m still standing by the Bosch at this point. They reason there are so many average and low quality appliances is because you and I don’t want to pay the price for the good ones. An Automatic washer in 1951 cost $500.
    Today you can still buy an automatic washer for $299 or less!

    An automobile in 1951 cost $1500 – $2000 and today they are $20K for a similar product. DAH!

    Do like my wife made me do. But if you are serious amount energy savings you are wasting your breath doing it with a top loader that uses 40 gals of water per load vs. 7-9 and then a higher extraction speed so your dryer takes less time. Plus you use less detergent, softner and bleach. Estimates are a front loader saves you $100 a year in costs, so in a few years they have paid for themselves, even for these people who have only gotten 7 years out of their machines, they are still ahead other than the frustration!

  74. DEBBY Says:

    I own a Whirlpool Cabrio dryer purchased August 2008. Just before the warranty expired it just stopped working. Whirlpool sent out A&E (code name for sears) to repair it which they did. I bought an extended warranty from them and 1 wk later it died again. I had 3 service calls and then called whirlpool to complain. They sent over a new repair service which they paid for and my dryer worked for 6 months (yay). Now it died again and I am stuck with the same process to go through all over again.
    Whatever you do don’t buy Whirlpool. When I try to discuss with them that an appliance such as this should last longer than 18 months they offered me 15% off a new one. I am appalled and terrified to have to buy another one so soon.
    I appreciate the comments on Bosch but truly do not know what to believe.
    Anyone else with advice out there would be great.

  75. Woody Says:

    My advice is a question: WHY DO all these people keep GOING TO SEARS!

    DEBBIE: If you purchased the dryer in Aug of 2008 it had a one year warranty from Whirlpool. Then you said you purchased an extended warranty. Usually these are sold in 1 – 3 year increments. If that is the case, aren’t you still under the extended warranty coverage? If my calculations are correct you should still have coverage at least until Aug 2010 minimum.

    It’s a DRYER, it can’t be that difficult to get working properly. Not defending Whirlpool but they are higher on my list with concessions than other laundry brands. Whirlpool isn’t going to concession anything if it has an extended warranty, but the warranty you purchased should have a provision in it that if the product cannot be repaired they will replace the product.

    It’s not quite time to replace that dryer. Good luck

  76. DEBBY Says:

    Actually part of my complaint is that I did not know I was dealing with sears. I bought the dryer at Lowe’s and whirlpool did not tell me that they were sending sears to repair it. They call themselves A&E.
    I realize it is under warranty but A&E came to my house 3 times each time saying it was fixed and each time it took less and less increments of time before it stopped again. I can’t get away from A&E because of the extended warranty through them and from past experience it is clear that even if it continues to be a similar problem like it was 6 months ago Whirlpool will not acknowledge or take responsibility for the fact that there is an obvious defect with their machine. My real concern is this is the 5th time I am having someone repair a dryer that is only 18 months old and given this pattern it seems to me that as long as I have this dryer I will always have serious problems with it.

  77. Woody Says:

    Good information to know. A and E factory service like you say is a stelth version of Sears. Before you throw Whrilpool under the bus it might just be the service you are getting from A and E is the problem.

    But one good recourse you have is to contact LOWE’s customer service if you haven’t already. LOWES’s is in the process of setting up a more hands on approach to service for their customers. I think they might intervene and help you in some way.

    At minimum I would have them A and E come out and service the product and get it runnning so you can sell the dryer in working condition used to someone. There are different types of extended warranties. You may have the option of having an independent company service the product also.

    We haven’t had a lot of chronic problems with the dryer you own. If it doesn’t work out, let me know the symptoms, and maybe we can help out.

    Let us all know what happens. Hopefully a happy ending.

  78. DEBBY Says:

    I contacted lowe’s in 09 when it stopped but there was nothing I could do because I had not bought a warranty from them. (I feel very betrayed about this Sears things as I know how bad they are). My extended warranty prohibits me from going somewhere else as it would be voided. Selling it actually sounds like a decent option since I would get rid of the distrust for the object.
    The funny thing is I think I know what the problem is but no one seems to listen to me. In August when it failed it was because it was overheating and blowing fuses (A&E insisted it was due to lint and poor venting). When the second repair company came they changed a different fuse but I think that the heat element is much too hot (It has melted buttons in the past). Now it turns on but has no heat and in the weeks prior to this happening it seemed to be too hot again as clothes on low heat were very hot to the touch. I hope the entire heating structure is gone so that it can be replaced. This is just very frustrating as a working mother who can only do repairs on weekends and laundry on weekends you can imagine how this is piling up.

  79. Ann Says:

    I was looking for a part and forgot Sear’s went out of business (Fairfield, NJ) and decided to go to Whirlpool around the corner….that went out of business too. As a former Sear’s employee, I can attest to Debby’s displeasure. Sear’s no longer have Service Technicians; they are all Independent Contractors. From what I am reading, it sound as though Whirlpool did likewise.

    I was wondering what the ‘Direct Drive’ meant. It meant come out of the Dark Ages into the 21st Century. Thanks Woody for the update! I just read another front load negative and narrowed down to (2) Whirlpool/Maytag top loaders. Yes, there is good and bad; unfortunately, consumer fraud is very rampant! As consumer’s (dealer/technician included) we must rely on one another for advice. Thanks.

  80. DEBBY Says:

    So A&E just left after deciding that the problem is that the board is not working (because the connection is scorched- yes scorched because it is generating too much heat). So in 2 weeks they will replace the board and I will still be left with a dryer that overheats. Whirlpool was contacted (tech support) who refuse to replace it and do not seem too concerned that this dryer of 18 months is not working.
    Any suggestions because I honestly fear that if this keeps up I will have a fire in my house and I cannot sell this to anyone as I could not pass this problem along to others.

  81. Ann Says:

    To Debby. I am not an attorney/paralegal. Just another consumer who encountered the same problem with another product. I don’t know which state you reside or the statute of limitations. They sold you a defective product (Lemon Law)! You must keep all of your paperwork and file immediately (small claims) for reimbursement. Google & read: (your state) Lemon Law, Consumer Fraud and Magnusson-Moss Act. Good luck.

  82. Woody Says:

    Ann and Debby: I understand Ann’s comment and, yes sometimes we do have to use other means to get things resolved. But as a very experienced appliance technician, the problems being described seem to be related to an air flow problem or a grounded heating element. Most air-flow issues are not product related, but related to the venting going out of the house. Check out this link and look at page three. Make sure your dryer venting meets these specifications.


    That may or may not be the problem of the product. It would be interesting to know which state you live in.

  83. DEBBY Says:

    Venting and air flow are not the problem as all of this has been checked repeatedly. This thing overheats and in reality I don’t think there is much that will make me feel safe using it. I checked and whirlpool has had to recall some of their gas dryers in the recent past for the same problem. I don’t think whirlpool is going to own any responsibility for their product and the only solution I have is to try and get them to give me money (cost -depreciation), get it repaired under whatever warranty I have and donate it to charity, or just give up. I am going to buy a Bosch product and hope for the best. I see the new one has a 2 year warranty which gives me hope. I wrote off shopping at Sears because of poor customer service and now I’ll add Whirlpool to the list. They clearly will do anything to not take responsibility for defective merchandise and have been wasting my time which to me is worth too much to give all of it to them on the weekend as well as the hours at work I’ve lost.
    I’ll send them a letter, one to the better business Bureau and anyone else so that maybe some agency can make them accountable. This product has been defective for quite some time and I am through with it.

  84. Joan Dalton Says:

    The Better Business Bureau is supported by money from businesses. I heard that a complaint stays on their site for about 3 months only. It is usually not worth much.
    If your state has an ombudsman, I would contact that person, also the state’s Attorney General sometimes takes an interest and prosecute such cases if there are enough complaints. At any rate, his/her office could possibly contact the company for you and they would stand up and take notice then.
    I remember, years back, there were all sorts of stories about big box stores selling reworked second inventory as first, somehow including the original warranties. One of these stories was told to me by a repairman who worked in the back room.
    I have Whirlpool side loading washer and driers which I purchased through one of the remaining small local mom and pop shops (for more than I could have gotten them at a big box). I did this because a small local business has a reputation to uphold, cannot rely on highway traffic or their big advertising budget to bring customers in.
    I have had these machines for seven or so years, had purchased no servicing contract, and have never had a problem.
    Maybe all businesses in today’s economy are cutting corners so much that their customer service people are getting umpteen complaints, and as you say, really don’t care any longer because they know they are selling junk and nothing is being done about it.
    I once had a job in a worldwide manufacturing company. We had a block of consecutive phone numbers and when a customer got through to me and said customer service was not helping I would give them the number of our CEO. When the head of a company sends a message to fix something people don’t blow you off.
    You might ask your research librarian how to look up the number of the Whirlpool top brass and go through calling them until someone listens and does something.
    I say this because sometimes lower management make decisions to make their little fiefdom look productive, but end up hurting the company. Top management likes to nip this in the bud. It is easy to downgrade your company’s reputation and very hard to build it up again, once it is tarnished.
    Also, sometimes tvnews and magazines have ‘consumer advoctes’ and will take interest in a story such as yours. Companies don’t like the bad publicity.

    Maybe I was just lucky with my purchase. Maybe I got my machines before the degradation. This is very frustrating and you should not have to put up with it.

    This brings to mind the elderly woman who went to the offices of a business that was giving her the run around (was it Comcast, or a telephone provider?) and started sledgehammering their computer equipment.

  85. Christina Says:


    Where can we buy Bosch washer and dryer? I live in Texas. I only see where Sears and Lowes sell it.

  86. Joan Dalton Says:

    Sometimes a company will have that info available on its website. If not, their customer service number should be able to access it.

  87. Charlotte Says:

    hey Woody,

    what would you say about the Bosch modal numbers WFMC3200UC,WFMC3301UC and WFVC3300UC (saw them on sale at a clearance centre).


  88. Woody Says:

    Those would be the prior model “Nexxt” series. We really enjoyed the one we had till I bought the new “Vison” model to try out.

    There are some feature on the Vision that are nice. If you have a weak floor, the Vison has an upgraded suspension shock that works well. The Vision can be stacked.

    I actually wished they would have kept a couple of the Nexxt models in the line because they have a different control panel that is nice when you don’t have pedestals or want to put the machines under a counter. Price would be the big decider for me. If it is substanially less for a Nexxt then great. Hope that helps.

  89. charlotte Says:

    Thanks for the help. They are substantially less. priced at around 600 to 800. The washer will be on ground floor and we have room for side by side but not the height to stack.

    Thanks again for all your advice (previous posts included). with all the bad reviews on front-load washers and then the high energy of top-load ones, i really needed some help figuring it all out.

  90. Jennifer Says:

    I’m sorry to hear about the concerns you have experienced with your Whirlpool dryer! Please send me an email through our customer service address, Whirlpool_CustomerExperience@Whirlpool.com, and type ‘Attention: Jennifer F.’ in the subject line, and I would be happy to help resolve the situation with your dryer.

  91. Woody Says:

    Very nice of Whirlpool to want to assist with Jennifer’s unique dryer issue.

  92. DEBBY Says:

    Hi Jennifer,

    Message sent

  93. greg Says:


    I have been looking for a washer/dryer and came across the Bosch.
    I heard the Bosch has had recalls for the child proof doors not opening and needing to unplug the machine to reset it for the door to open. Also, the 5400 model doesnt have adjustable water level some of the clothes dont get wet. Does the 6450 help in these areas?
    I saw on “US Appliances” web site the price is $929.00. Is it better to buy from a local store or the internet? Will service be sacrificed by going through the internet?


  94. Kerry Says:

    Do NOT get LG Tromms!!!!!!!! Washer and Dryer have been an absolute NIGHTMARE!!! They look pretty and that’s it!!!
    Repair guy said ALL front loaders have issues in all brands AND hrs noticed they aren’t built to last anymore. Keeping repair places busy:(

  95. Kerry Says:

    Also I have yet to encounter a front loader that doesn’t pool water in the front rubber “lip”. It causes Midew. Only somewhat solution is to blot after each cycle and leave the door open. We got rid of our Maytag ones because we were sooo frustrating with this problem. I called customer service prior to replacing. They said they didn’t have a problems with that and weren’t willing to help anymore. THEN after we got rid of them we got in the mail a recall notice for this issue!!! Then a class action lawsuit. Too little too late.
    We had bought the LG Tromms already which ironicly did it too! Among many other big probs to follow. Have already invested almost 500 in repairs. And only 4 years old. Now I have two new issues 6 months later. Washer is making a grinding noise and not always spinning and dryer is making a loud rattle like drum is loose:(? Debating if worth investing more to diagnose and repair OR start over again. But from my experiences and all that I’ve read I’m not certain I won’t have problems again. Any advice?

  96. Kerry Says:

    Ann same thing with LG. Had first given me an outside service repair to try where a girl who sounded about 12 and on heavy drugs answered. She was clueless tried twice then finally LG gave me the name of another service company that came. They were fine but it’s costs me $$$$. And now I need them again or new ones.

  97. Woody Says:

    Interesting though we are not hearing much about the Top Three rated Consumers. The top Three will always be the biggest selling, not necessarily the best products.

    LG’s are well accepted on the sales floor as Kerry says. Most of my customers like them, but as they are getting older and people are finding out what they cost to repair the image is changing.

    Mildew is caused by water, but more so but people leaving the door closed on their machines and using too much and/or the wrong detergents. You already know what machine I like best right now. The internet is full of opinions. You can find something to support or dispute anything.

  98. Terry Says:

    Just bought the Bosch 300 series front loaders from Loews about 3 weeks abo. The washer does not spin the clothes nearly dry enough and it is taking over an hour to dry a 1/2 load…and all the waistbands/sweatshirt pockets, etc are still wet- this is on the extra dry setting. I did a normal size load of casual kachis pants- about 8 pair one night and it took 1hr 50min to dry on perm press very dry… ug! Even though it is past the 7 days return- Loews said they will let me return them for an exchange but they are sending out a service call tomorrow just to confirm there is nothing actally defective. I bought frontloaders expecting that the dry time would be shorter. My coworkers have Kenmore and their oversized loads are completely dry in 40 minutes… Unfortunately Loews does not carry that brand so I’m not positive what to go with.. I have heard rave reviews on the Electrolux and if they are anything like my moms 30 yr old vacuum then they have got to be good. Although I have heard so many people have drying issues with all sorts of brands…
    Another thing that is gonna kill me is I got the Bosch pedestal stands on sale for 50 each- instead of the normal 250! So now I’m going to have to fork out an extra 400 for 2 new stands to match a new brand. I do have to say I cannot believe the excellent customer service I am getting with Loews- they could have just told me sorry honey- your stuck after the 7 day return policy but they said they would do whatever it takes to make my first customer visit with them a good one. Nice! Anyone own the Electrolux models?

  99. Woody Says:

    If the washer is not spinning correctly the dryer will not dry the clothes quickly because the clothes are too wet. Most problems like you are reporting are installation or customer use related, but all products come with a warranty and all products can have an issue. That is why they have a warranty. Don’t you think your post here is premature? I have at least 15 neighbors with Bosch. No one is having the problem you are reporting.

    No Lowes does not have KENMORE products. KENMORE is a SEARS brand name that manufactures put on their products at Sears request. KENMORE is only available at SEARS. It is SEARS way of letting you buy a product in disquise that may or may not be something you would normally consider. Most of the SEARS front load laundry is currently being built by LG. Some models may be Frigidaire or Whirlpool. Buyer beware!

    Frigidaire / Kenmore, please see the posts in the Appliance Journal Why Kenmore Front Load Washers Fail. There is a link at the top of this blog. Electrolux is a Frigidaire with lipstick!

  100. Terry Says:

    I don’t think my post is premature at all, I am just stating what my current issue is. I’ll update tomorrow after the service call. Hopefully I will be able to report that it is not spinning correctly and my issue is solved and I’m keeping the Bosch. When I called Loews they actually told me that the Bosch 300 series is their top seller and they have had no complaints from anyone- they were genuinely surprised. I have read pages of rave reviews on Bosch and pages of all negatives too- but I’m finding that on every brand I look into any you will find that with any product.

  101. Keith C Says:

    I just bought the Maytag Epic Z (z600 Washer and Dryer). Are these good machines??

    Also, “I heard” to help with the mould issue with Front Loads Machines is to level the unit with the front being slightly higher than the back of the machine….Does this help? Do parts wear uneven when not completely level??

  102. shelagh Says:

    In Feb 2009 I replaced my Inglis top loader washer and dryer..the same ones I used for 19 years with virtually no repairs. I thought it wise to upgrade before one or both of my machines quit!
    I bought the Whirlpool Duet front loading washer (model WFW9200SQA12 ) and matching dryer. In early March 2010, my washer developed a noise and vibration when spinning. I searched the internet, checked the washer manual….and the only solution I could find mentioned in trouble shooting was to ensure that the washer was sitting level on the floor. I adjusted that and the noise continued…I arranged a service call to have the washer checked.
    The repairman said the washer was “done”…I needed new bearings,a new drum, shocks,
    a new belt….etc…Remember, this is a 13 month old washer!!!
    I called Whirlpool, as did the store where I purchased the washer, as did the service company that repairs Whirlpools in my region…..Whirlpool could not be convinced to replace the machine…
    They did offer to cover the cost of repair, even though it was approximately 2 weeks past the one year warranty period.
    To make a long story short…I was without a washing machine for one month, an eternity for someone who does a load of laundry most days …waiting for parts to come in etc, etc.
    When the repair was finished, the serviceman told me he really wasn’t happy with the way it sounded on spin cycle!
    Now what? I have 90 days warranty on the parts…and then I’m on my own!
    Needless to say, I am sorry that I ever bought a Whirlpool….and most definitely, would not buy one again.
    Boy do I miss my Inglis toploader! : )

  103. Woody Says:

    Would your life insurance company, your auto or home owners insurance extend the warranty beyond the grace period of their policies… NOT !!!

    Give Whirlpool credit for trying to do the right thing. If there is still a problem contact them. The service company is required to warranty their work for 30 days. I can tell you names of a lot of companies that when the warranty is over, it’s over.

    Good luck.

  104. Keith C Says:

    So I hooked up the Maytag Epic Z and what a joke it turned out to be!!!

    When the machine hit spin cycle, something started to clang around inside the body of the machine and then stopped. I’m assuming something fell off and came to rest at the bottom of the machine.

    I then noticed some dripping at the front of the unit that stopped after awhile.

    I realized that I made a big mistake, no question I’m taking these back to the store.

  105. Woody Says:

    Keith C: ASSUME … see the Bad New Bears….lol…

  106. Keith C Says:

    It’s been a nightmare replacing my old Front Load washer and dryer. I thought these Maytags would be what most would think of Maytag appliances…”Fantastic”. It turned out to be a fantastic disaster.

    Anyway, I went and bought the Samsung WF337AAG Washer and dryer set got them for a great price too. I’m crossing my fingers on these ones. The reviews have been glowing, I hope it’s true. I take delivery this Wednesday.

  107. Woody Says:

    Samsung manufactured some of the late Maytags for them. (Not the Maytags since the Whrilpool acquistion.) The Maytag/Samsungs were a nightmare unless you wanted to practice staying on the mechanical bull. I notice they have been advertising how quite the machines are. Hope they found a fix for them. I wasn’t ever fond of the machines and thus we opted not to be an authorized service for Samsung. Good luck.

  108. candice Says:

    We have had a BOSCH washer and dryer for almost 2 years and have had nothing but problems after 6 months of use. 3 technicians have come to “repair” the machines on numerous visits (10+) and still, nothing is resolved. We had to send a registered letter to Sears to complain. They have changed the heating element on the dryer which then meant that the control panel had to be changed also, the bearings, the rubbers under the washing machine, they had to tighten screws that were loose inside the washing machine, we have to put the washing machine on the reduced spin cycle and even then the machine shakes like crazy (yes, it is levelled properly!!!) to the point that it broke a piece of the door hinge. We also have the mold issue with the washer (yes, we use the right detergent, we DO NOT use too much of it- 1 tbsp. and we do not shut the door). The fabric softener DOES NOT dispense properly, we have to empty it ourselves because it gets clogged (yes, we use a HE fabric softener!). Idiot technician said that it does that because the machine is levelled and it shouldn’t be… Really??? Since when??? I have had Maytag front loaders and Frigidaire without problems. I WILL NOT BUY A BOSCH PRODUCT EVER AGAIN (we have friends who have had problems with their dishwasher). If you look up reviews for Bosch washer and dryers, you will also find many other customers with similar issues so I am not the only one. I do have to say that Sears provided us with excellent customer service and have agreed to take them back and let us choose whatever make we want to replace them. I find it funny that Woody is only mentionning Bosch products…as a technician he should be able to sell us a few other makes that are of “good” quality.

  109. woody Says:

    Candice, nice post. Sorry your experience hasn’t been good with your washer. Nice to hear Sears is living up to their “Satisfaction guaranteed or your money back” pledge.
    Woody doesn’t sell washers, but we are an authorized service center for Bosch, Whirlpool, Maytag, Amana, Asko, KitchenAid, LG and others.
    My opinions are my own and I take responsibility for them. My opinions are formed from my family’s own personal experience with these products, those of my employees and mostly from our customers who are many.
    Any product can have unintended problems. The “good” manufactures make reasonable efforts to correct those problems. Others live by the letter their warranty and offer no consessions.
    If mold and odors were not a problem then why would Whirlpool be making available a product to freshen front loaders?
    You used the term “idiot” to describe your opinion of the Sears tech. Often the product gets blamed for the lack of expertise of the person(s) attempting to repair the product. I can’t know if that is a portion of your frustration or not.
    I do know I can choose any brand and any product within that brand and find both good and derogatory comments or reviews on them on the internet. I met with one manufacture just today who produce 20,000 machines PER DAY ! Finding a few bad experiences with their product can be done, but when you consider their production in a year is millions of units, those reviews are a very small sample.
    I hope your experience with whatever you choose now is satisfactory so you can enjoy them and move on to some of the more important parts of life. :)

  110. Doris Says:

    Well, now I have no idea what to do. We need a new washer and dryer quickly….and I really want front loads because I have a very small laundry room and was hoping to have a platform built over them for folding. It looks as if I should completely stay away from front loaders. After reading these, I am so confused. I was told to stay far away from BOSCH, but the only “expert” being Woody is only recommending them. Woody..HELP!!! I love the look of stainless or blue colored front load…..anyone have something in that realm that has worked for them? I am so baffled!!!!

  111. Woody Says:

    As far as Bosch goes I still stand behind my comments. As I said prior you can find good and bad about anything on the internet.
    Bosch makes a silver that my daughter loves.

    Be sure to leave a little extra space between the top of the washer and the bottom of the counter top. Machine heights change.

    My preference in washers and dryers in order would be Bosch, One of the Whirlpool brands (Maytag, Duet,) and LG if you have a good service company in your area that works on LG. Don’t be afraid of a front loader. Good luck.

  112. Joan Dalton Says:

    As I mentioned before, we have an older Whirlpool Duet and never had a problem. I guess people only write when they have a complaint, but after reading this I started to feel that I was incredibly lucky. It’s good to hear a professional who deals with them liking them, too.

  113. Nancy Mc Says:

    Woody I need your help !!!! I had to leave my washer and dryer with the house we sold… so after moving I was in the market for a washer and dryer, after reading all the reviews all over the internet I was confused and scared to buy anything. After reading your reviews on the Bosch, I bought the Bosch 6450, well after 2 weeks it doesnt drain well and wont spin on the hight speed, just kind of slowly tosses the clothes around… Help !!!

  114. Nancy Mc Says:

    Woody I need your help !!!! I had to leave my washer and dryer with the house we sold… so after moving I was in the market for a washer and dryer, after reading all the reviews all over the internet I was confused and scared to buy anything. After reading your reviews on the Bosch, I bought the Bosch 6450, well after 2 weeks it doesnt drain well and wont spin on the high speed, just kind of slowly tosses the clothes around… Help !!!

  115. Nancy Mc Says:

    ok, I had the repair guy out… and guess what ? my load wasnt big enough !!!! I only had 2 things in it… whoever heard of such a thing? So, my faith has been restored… I guess with the Boschs you have to have at least half a load or it wont spin. Another thing I learned is to use only 1 and 1/2 tablespoons of laundry soap, HE of course. He also said on the dryer if you want your clothes dried, use the timer part, his family uses the 40 minute timer and has no problems. What ever happened to the good ole days when you could just throw throw your stuff in the washer and dryer and not have to worry about things ? Maybe I am showing my age LOL

  116. Nancy Mc Says:

    oh, and Doris the repair guy I had out just loves the Boschs… he said they are the best on the market… he also said that he recommends to people that buy the high end washers and dishwashers (Bosch ) to purchase the extended warranties because when they go out of the mfg warranty they can be costly to repair because the parts are so expensive. Also I have had several repairmen tell me to stay away from the colored ones ( I know, they are beautiful ) because they scratch really easy, just a thin layer of colored paint… good luck

  117. Doris Says:

    Nancy Mc, Thank you so much for all that great info!! I’m waiting for my husband to come home from baseball practice and I’m gonna throw the Bosch info at him as soon as he walks in the door! :) But I’m so bummed about the color info…I really was hoping for a blue or silver. I wonder if the Bosch’s come in Stainless? Thanks again, I think I’ve decided now, front load for sure!

  118. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hey Doris didn’t mean to burst your bubble with the color thing, I was very disappointed too.. I think Bosch has a sliver color, but don’t think it is the 6450 model… am pretty sure they don’t have a blue. Just so you know, they are very quiet, another thing the repair man said was he didn’t like the pedestals, said the machine spins at such a high RPM that it wobbled too much on them, he said he had them and after 2 weeks got rid of them. Before this I had the whirlpool duet on pedestals and it was ok but they were up so high you couldn’t fold clothes on top of them unless you were 6′ tall, so I opted out of them this time ( besides they are around $230 each, OUCH )good thing I did after what the repair man said… Oh yes, he also told me about once a month to take a small amount of dish washing detergent, put it right in the washer and run the sanitize cycle and that keeps it nice and clean and fresh ( ok, I am old and don’t remember exactly how much detergent he said to use LOl ) I am also keeping my detergent door and washer door open after each use. Hope this helps because I was in such a confused mess before buying mine not knowing what to buy or use. Before buying I called around to random repair men and asked questions about what was the best in their opinions. I called several and they both said Bosch, they didnt sell them so they had no reason to tell me anything other than their opinion.. good luck and let me know what you decide… oh, by the way on the Bosch model 6450 there is a $200 rebate, plus in my state of UT the utility companies are giving a rebate also… oh, I dont think if you buy at Lowe’s you get the $200 Bosch rebate so make sure you check before buying… I just found it: Not eligible at Lowe’s, Sears, Best Buy and P.C. Richard & Son.

  119. Nancy Mc Says:

    Big OOPS… when I was talking about putting dish washing detergent in the clothes washer to clean it, I was talking about CASCADE, or one that goes in the dishwasher, would hate for someone to put Dawn or Ivory soap in the washer LOL… I wouldn’t have been able to sleep tonight if I hadn’t corrected it :)

  120. Terry Says:

    I returned my BOSCH 300 series last week after using for a month and replaced with the Electrolux and am in heaven. I found that the BOSCH dryer just didn’t dry fast enough for me- on a regular size load it was taking up to 1.5 hrs and still had dampness in the pockets, waist bands. I was not overloading and I’d even spin twice. The service techs came out to test the dryer and saw the dum was registering about 165 temp and then kept droping down to 150ish..it would keep cycling that way. The techs called BOSCH directly while they were testing since they thought the drum should register about 180. BOSCH told them it was functioning properly- their drums are kept at a lower temp..energy efficiency and so not to ever over-heat your clothes. This is fine- but this was not advertised to me when I purchased them so they were not a good fit for my needs. I wanted a dryer to dry my load under 1 hr every time and when I set a dryer to VERY dry I don’t expect any dampnes- which I was still getting with the BOSCH. Also, after only a few weeks I noticed the washer did have a not-so-good smell even when I left the washer door open. I absolutely love the new set I purchased and it was well worth the extra money. I am not bashing BOSCH as they functioned ok just was not a good fit for me. I am very busy and don’t have time to be waiting on laundry and re-checking and re-setting the dryer all the time. Also, a big plus for me with the Electrolux was even more room in the dryer. Even thought the BOSCH was a large capacity it still felt tight in the dryer with my conforter.
    The biggest rip off with all these frontloaders is the pedastals though- I was lucky when I bought the BOSCH- they were on sale for 50 each! But when I exchanged I had to suck it up and pay the 229 each for the new ones- OUCH! Lowes is the best when it comes to customer service!

  121. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hi Terry,
    I have only had my Bosch for 2 weeks and until I had the incident with the too small of a load I am very please… I have the 500 series and don’t have that problem with the taking too long to dry. It is only me and my husband so don’t have much laundry and so far I haven’t had a smell yet. I loved the look of the electrolux’s especially the color ones. Keep us posted..

  122. Lori Says:

    Help! My washer and dryer are 12 years old (Kenmore Elite) and I have love them. The washer is no longer cleaning as it should and I have to manually run a third spin cycle for the water to be properly expelled so the clothes can go into the dryer. My dryer runs really hot no matter what cycle setting it is on. I know I am on borrowed time with them. The washer is a top loader and the dryer a front loader. I am looking to purchase machines that I can stack, as I have a small laundry room. I think I want both of them to be front loaders. I was leaning toward LG or Bosch. By the way what is direct drive? Please advise.

  123. Woody Says:

    Make sure you have a good LG or Bosch service company in your area before you chose either.

    Direct drive can either be a term Whirlpool coined for their top load washer years ago or it can mean there is no belt and the motor is attached directly to the tub not requiring a belt. I prefer a machine with a belt. It is less expensive to replace a simple belt with a detatched motor than it is to purchase these direct drive components.

    Technicians HATE stacked washers and dryers. You have to take the dryer down to work on the washer. I prefer a shelf for the dryer so it is independent and does not shake if the washer does.

  124. Doris Says:

    Hi Nancy Mc!
    Well…I purchased my new BOSCH w/ Aquastop this weekend! Some people think the color is weird, its called “anthracite”…kind of a charcoal gray. I loved it. Will try my hardest not to scratch it. I needed to get something that looked nicer than traditional white because when people used my downstairs bathroom, they automatically see my laundry room. Now that I have front loaders I am going to have a granite counter built over them for folding. Anyway, thanks Woody and Nancy Mc for the comments. I sure hope I made the right choice! I also got the yearly maintenance plan…normally I wouldn’t but decided to keep it tuned up like my car! Thanks again!

  125. Nancy Mc Says:

    Way to go !!! Remember no small loads ( I only had 2 small things in ti ) .. I am so happy for you, please keep us updated.. I had no idea they had a charcoal color, yea… You wont believe this but I had done so much research that I did all my buying over the phone and didn’t even see them till my husband came home with them a couple of days later. I have yet to use the steam on the dryer, but the repairman said it is wonderful. I have been playing around with the dryer settings to see which ones work best for me, I don’t want my clothes to get real dry but dont want them wet either, so it is just a matter of playing around with the different settings. Its like a new toy for me :)

  126. Jeff Says:

    This is a little off subject, but what is your take on the best refrigerator. Mine is acting up and we are in the market for a new one. Just wanted a professionals opinion. we are shopping for the Bosch washer and dryers now trying to find the ones we want for the right price. Thanks for all your input.

  127. Lori Says:

    Okay, we pretty much ruled out the LG. I am interested in the near top of the line Samsung WF448 washer and DV448 dryer. JD Powers and Goodhousekeeping both rated them very well. I like the Bosch but not everyone carries them and I have not been able to find one with a steam washer. Yes, I want a steam washer option. I work for a retailer and most of my clothes are dry clean only, which gets expensive. Any ideas or comments? Thanks!

  128. Doris Says:

    Thanks Nancy! I’ll keep you posted on how it goes!!
    Woody, we have an Amana refrigerator with the bottom freezer. We have had it for about 5 years now and no problems with it. We usually get our appliances for a good appliance center here in Delaware and it is one of the ones they recommended.
    Lori, we got our BOSCH washer and dryer at Sears. They are the only ones that seem to carry them here, but yes, it only has steam in the dryer which is all I really wanted. Good luck!

  129. Doris Says:

    oops….just read my above post…….I meant FROM a good appliance center here in Delaware!

  130. lisa Says:

    woody I just bought bosch washer and dryer. My question is which laundry detergent and fabric softner is the best to use. The sales
    person said to use powder detergert because of wax build up with liquid. He also said regular tide(not HE was fine) only to use 1 Tbl. Do you have an opinion on this? I would apprieciate your input.

  131. Lori Says:

    Doris, Nancy or woody, Do I need a steam cycle in the washer? Can I use the steam setting in the dryer to clean my “dry clean only” stuff like silk and wool? I’m totally confused. I’m down to either Bosch WFVC8440UC washer and matching dryer or the Samsumg top model which does have a steam cycle in the washer. Help! My 13 year old Kenmore Elites are having death coughs! Thanks so much!

  132. Nancy Mc Says:

    Lori wish I could help you with the steam washer but I don’t know enough about them. Do what I did, call around to different appliance repairs ( ones that don’t sell machines ) and ask their opinion of the steam in the washers. Tell them what you are doing and they will be glad to give you their opinion, they can give you the pros and cons on them or if it is just a gimmick that doesn’t really work. I did a google search and found this, maybe this will help… copy and paste this link http://www.city-data.com/forum/house/902157-steam-washer-dryer-i-will-share.html
    Let us know what you decide, we all find this interesting :)

  133. Nancy Mc Says:

    Lisa I think the sales person told you wrong about the detergent. The HE is low sud-sing which you NEED in the front loaders, and my repairman said that he likes the tide HE powder. Also the amount of detergent depends on if you have a water softner or not. I dont have a water softner so I need to use half a tablespoon more. I just found a link to copy and paste http://housewares.about.com/od/laundryappliances/f/hedetergents.htm

  134. Woody Says:

    Mmmmm, detergents, , mmmmmmm that’s a tough one because a couple of factors need to be considered.
    1. Hardness of the water, degree of soil and
    2. My wife’s opinion (gotta be carefull she may read this)

    Actually she likes the power, I mean powder best. Both do a good job when used correctly. She uses some additives now and then like OxyClean and likes not having liquid mixed with the powder. She also says that the liquids are more messy. But there is a lot of personal choices involved here. Just be sure it is HE.

    I’d be careful using the Tide non HE. That’s one of the factors in shortened life of the machine. I had a hard time wheening my family from it. It was only after they trashed a washer that I insisted they change. Of course we have soft water so we require very little detergent. Our machine has 4 different users (if you don’t count me, and trust me, with all the girls around here I don’t count sometimes unless someone needs 10 bucks!) and so it gets a diverse workout.

    What does steam do to a stain ?? Sets it! My opionion is steam is a gimick. The stain cycle on the Bosch brings in low temp water and heats it gradually to release stains and then continues to the higher temperature. The Bosch also has an awsome whites cycle or sanitary cyle. Asko (not the XXL models) has been doing this for years and customers always tell me that the washablility is superior to anything they ever had, especially with small childrens clothes with food stains. The steam dryer has some advantages that are useful. Those who have recently switched out their Bosch washers in our family say they have noticed the difference. One daughter thinks the steam dryer is the cat’s meow! YES, I know, I have a lot of children, (7 girls, 2 boys) home and away.

  135. Woody Says:

    There are too many variable to discuss refrigerators on this thread.
    Sizes and choices galore. Top freezer, bottom, side by side, all refrigerator, french doors.

    I am not a Fridaire or G.E. fan. I am not hot on Samsung unless you know you have a couple of service choices in your area. That narrows it down a little bit. But remember, these are my opinions.
    Whirlpool refrigeration is good and if you check out the KitchenAid line (which is a Whrilpool product) you will find they have longer warranties which has some value. Good Luck

  136. Nancy Mc Says:

    Wow Woody with all those kids and you still have time to answer all our concerns, my hat is off to you ! :) and for all we know you may have yourself locked in a basement somewhere for some peace and quiet LOL

  137. Lori Says:

    Hi Woody, Nancy and Doris. I did follow the link Nancy and found that steam washers are a matter of preference. However, steam dryers seem to be loved universally! It’s Sunday and I can’t call repairmen to ask questions. But I do have Woody, thank God! Still considering Bosch and Samsung. Woody, why do you hate Samsung? From what I gather one can choose to use the steam feature or not. Trying to find a good repairman for Bosch as you suggested, Woody as well as a testing of their useage. Now to find a Bosch set I can see in person. My husband doesn’t want white but I don’t care. They are going into my laundry room, not living room. I’ll try to accommodate him since he’s such a dear. Please let me know what you think. I appreciate your help ladies and Woody! Got to go. My machines are coughing….lol!

  138. Woody Says:


    Well, I don’t hate Samsung, but when Samsung was building washers, dryers and refrigerators for Maytag in the last days of Maytag, as an authorized service company we weren’t too impressed with the products and support behind it. When you are a service agency you want to feel good about the product you support because it reflects on the reputation of the service company as well as the manufacture.

    First thing I would do is go to the manufacture web site for the brands you are interested in and you will find a place to enter your zip code and see who services in your area that has a relationship with the manufacture. Some products can be great but there might not be support in your area, but there may be support in mine for that brand. I tend to rate appliances on three things. 1. Does it do the job it was designed to do? 2. Does it last a long time? 3. If it breaks down how expensive are they to repair?

    I just pulled up on the Samsung site using my zip code the service company they suggest on their site is a TV guy!

    As far as color, one of my daughters has the silver and loves it. We have white right now, but we have had red and platinum (Asko). We change models and brands frequently as it is my way of having first hand experience with the machine. Trust me the girls will tell it like it is if they don’t like what I bring home! One set of machines I brought home lasted two days before I was requested to hook up the former set.

    I like the Bosch anthracite and but darker colors show water and detergent marks

  139. Keith C Says:

    i’m not sure if it’s because of all the problems I dealt with on the Maytag Laundry pair but the Samsung 339 Washer and Dryer have been so far fantastic. I know I’ve only had them for two weeks now but they are easy to use, the washer doesn’t move around on the floor, no/very little water is left in the door seal and quiet.

    I guess the only thing that will be the test is the test of time that they don’t break down on me. Keep my fingers crossed.

  140. Keith C Says:

    Oops sorry not 339 but 337…

  141. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hi Keith,
    I am glad you aren’t having any problems, anymore I think buying appliances is just a crap shoot.. :) I know some of the appliance repairmen didnt want to do warranty work from Samsung because Samsung doesn’t pay them quickly, but who knows, seems everyone has an opinion, I bought the Bosch, but if you read on the internet some people hate them, so who knows, you just buy them and pray for the best

  142. Keith C Says:

    Thanks Nancy!! I’ glad that whole ordeal is over with. I ended up buying the 5 year extended warranty so I have little to worry about until that time, I just hope i don’t have lemons on my hands even though i’ve got that coverage as well.

    My mother inlaw bought a Bosch Laundry Pair (Neext 500 series) a few years ago and she hates them. The washer takes 1 1/2 hrs to wash a basic load. i’ve made sure she uses the right detergent and the right amounts but to no avail. The service tech. was in as well and said sorry, nothing he could do that is how long the washers take to do laundry. I wish we were told that when we went to buy them for her. I don’t think she’ll be buying Bosch again.

  143. Nancy Mc Says:

    I have the 6450, it is between the 500 and 800 series… mine doesnt take long at all to wash nor does it take long to dry. Guess I got lucky. The people who had Samsungs said it took forever to get the repair guy out but that could just be different areas of the country. I was lucky when the Bosch guy came out the very next day when I had it for 2 weeks and the washer wouldnt spin, as it turned out my load was too small for the washer to evenly distribute the clothes. Keep us posted I love hearing what problems or what NOT problems have, seems we always hear the bad and not the good.:)

  144. Woody Says:

    Most front load washers take longer, but they use less water, less soap and softener and they spin more that twice as fast as most top loaders. So although the washer takes longer the dryer times on a properly vented dryer are reduced. And……..you are no longer waiting for you dryer to finish so you can put the next load in.

    It’s a trade off. There are settings on all makes including Bosch that reduce the cycle time but do you want fast washes or clean and well rinsed fabrics? Life is full of choices…:)

  145. Nancy Mc Says:

    Woody having all those kids have made you so wise :) Everyone likes to have choices, enjoy them while you can looks like we are losing more and more as time goes on

  146. Woody Says:

    Wise ? More like weary!

    And “losing choices” is an entirely different topic

  147. Nancy Mc Says:

    Woody you werent too weary to catch that one :)

  148. Nancy Mc Says:

    This is way off subject, but it is snowing big ole snowflakes right now, I moved from AZ to this ? Good thing I have my new Bosch washer and dryer to dry all the towels it takes to dry off my dog when he comes in from going potty :)

  149. Doris Says:

    Nancy Mc…..
    It’s me, Doris again!…Just had to let you and Woody know that I couldn’t be more thrilled with my NEW Bosch WTVC533AUS Anthracite Vision 500 Series!!! I love them! Now, I’ve only had them for a week now, but they have actually made me enjoy doing laundry!!! I also LOVE the color and am now repainting, tiling a backsplash and having a granite countertop built to put over them. I’m pimping my laundry room!!!

  150. Woody Says:

    Nice Doris, I am jealous. I am hoping to be able sell my current set and get the anthricite. It wasn’t available when the Vision sets first came out.

    Nancy, do you mind telling me what city you are in?

  151. Nancy Mc Says:

    Dorrriissss, can you see me waving :) I am so glad you love your new machines and especially the color… I had to turn my laundry room into a private dining room for my hound dog LOL The house we are renting has cherry wood floors and he is 90 lbs so when he drinks everything in a 6 ft circle gets wet, so had to find a safe place for his dining and it just happens to be the laundry room ( good ole linoleum ) so you are lucky you get to pimp yours out.. I am so happy for you, does yours have a steam dryer ? If so, have you used it yet ? I do, but havent used it yet

  152. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hey Woody I moved from the Phoenix AZ to Draper UT, just south of Salt Lake City.. how about you ?

  153. Keith C Says:

    I think most would agree that when it comes to doing one load of basic laundry that takes two hours – washing and drying that is at least a half hour to long.

    Her settings are Normal load with no additional settings like extra spin or rinse and sensor drying. I just think that particular series of machine (nexxt 500) was not programmed for the faster North American market where we want a load done in around an hour.

  154. Lori Says:

    Just talked to another repairman who echoes Woody’s sentiments: Bosch. Parts for LG and Samsung can take forever to get if something breaks. I am almost down to doing my laundry by beating them on rocks. My machines are convulsing now. We will be ordering our Bosch 800 series this weekend. By the way, the repairman said that the newer Bosch machines don’t take as long to dry. I’ll keep you guys posted but I think this is gonna be good! Blessings!

  155. Keith C Says:

    I actually had an issue when I recieved the Samsung units that turned out to be nothing more than a faulty breaker. I live in the the Toronto, Ontario, Canada area and must say the Samsung repair agent was out the very next day to look at the units and of the part that he thought might be the issue he said would be shipped and recieved the very next day. Hopefully any major issues (if ever) will result in the same fast service.

    My understanding was that their is a warehouse here in the area that stocks Samsung Laundry parts for the different service agents, so i guess i’m lucky that way.

  156. Doris Says:

    I just got the BOSCH 500 series anthracite last weekend. I’ve only had them a week, and love them…..and you are correct. They dry much quicker than any dryer I’ve ever had before…..I think you’ll be very happy! I am!!!

  157. Nancy Mc Says:

    Well… I just used my steam refresh on my new Bosh, 6450… It was wonderful, am going to a job interview so have to look fresh.. dont know what good it will do me with it snowing today, now my hair will smell like hairspray :)

  158. Keith C Says:

    Good luck with your interview, hope you WOW them!!! SNOW!!! Here it’s 25 Celsius in the Toronto area.

    I have the Steam option in my Dryer and I haven’t even hooked it up because i thought that it was pretty much a Gimmick, does it really do something to the clothes that is worth while??

  159. Doris Says:

    Nancy Mc,
    Yes…I do have the STEAM also, but haven’t tried it yet. You’ve now made me want to find something to steam! Will have to try soon…good luck on the interview. Wow…snow!! Supposed to hit 90 degrees here tomorrow! (wilmington, Delaware)

  160. Nancy Mc Says:

    I got the JOB !!! yea, now I can pay for my new washer and dryer :) Tried the steam out this morning, worked great, wrinkles gone but…. I took them ( pants ) out of the dryer 6 minutes early, not thinking, put them aside, ran and commented on here, then went to put them on, they were damp ! and here I had to go out in snow with damp pants on hehehe I think if I had let them go the whole cycle, they would have dried… oh, well, lesson learned.. I didnt have wrinkles though :)

    Wow Keith and Doris am I the only one dealing with snow ? not fair, and just think I left Phoenix, 80 degrees in April to come to this !!

  161. Keith C Says:

    I’m no stranger to snow, before i moved to the Toronto area i lived in central Canada…Manitoba to be exact. Now there is lot’s of snow and cold.

    Congrats on the job!!

  162. Nancy Mc Says:

    Keith I have never been in your area but I will take your word for it about the snow. As I look our now it is 48 and sunny, but this morning was a different story, its amazing how soon the weather can change.I think we should all pat ourselves on the back for our new purchases, lets keep in touch so we can see how things go in the future ( I dont wan to jinx us LOL )

  163. Darin Says:


    I see you’re not a big fan of Kenmore…. BUT, what do you think about a Kenmore Elite HE5t steam 4.4 cu ft model # 47 for $799 ? Its at a sears outlet store so its a refurb but my wife and I really need a GOOD deal ( Meaning affordable and reliable ) Now my folks have had nothing but Kenmore and I do understand that its not the same Kenmore of 40 yrs ago. At this point I’m a bit leary of them all but we were really wanting to get a front loading washer.Any suggestions on machines that are gonna be in that 7 to $800 range and are front loading would be greatly appreciated !!!

    Anyone else with suggestions…… LEMME HAVE EM !

  164. Woody Says:

    Quickly…. a Kenmore is a product manufactured by another company which Sears places the name Kenmore. But aside from that what good is steam? Steam sets stains. Steam is good in the dryer (or Mist).

    If you are concerned about repairs then steam is one more thing to go wrong. Bosch has a number of machines in the $799 range especially after rebates. Check out the article here on the Journal “Why Kenmore washers fail”….also a law firm just announced they are looking into a class action suit against Sears Kenmore due to high failure rates right after the warranty expires.

    Depending on the service available in your area my choices are still first Bosch, then LG or one of the Whirlpool front loaders. No Ge, Frigidaire, Electrolux, Samsung. Good luck to you.

  165. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hey Woody !!! I thought maybe you were on vacation, havent heard from you lately… My Bosch is still going strong after 1 month.. Its about time Doris checked in… wonder if she has tried the steam dryer yet…

  166. Darin Says:

    Thanks Woody,

    Any particular place you recommend buying from ? I see a few places that carry Bosch but dont know who will offer better service. Lowes, Sears, ….

  167. Darin Says:

    And also…. how do you rate the 3300, 5400, 5440 ? The 5400 is 25% off at Lowes right now $746

  168. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hi Darin,
    I am no expert but Woody always says to check in your area and see if there are any Bosch service people before buying. I also know that Woody shivers at the name Sears, I think it makes his hair stand on end, that’s assuming after 9 kids he still has some LOL If you live in a big enough area there should be some independent business owners that sell Bosh, that is how I got mine. Check ads, internet and see if you can find the independent places. Good luck and keep us posted.

  169. Woody Says:

    Wow Nancy !! You get an “A”.

    If my only choice was Sears or Lowes I would choose Lowes. The best information and the best service will alwasys be from the “little guy”.

    In our area you can buy the 6450 for the same price as the 5400. The 6450 has the Aqua stop feature and a choice of a higher spin speed. If you like to have “fun” shopping then find a dealer with the same item at a lower price than Lowes and then Lowes has to beat that price by 10%. :) But then you have to decide if your conscience dictates that you just buy it from the place that gave you the lowest price to begin with. Have fun !

  170. KathyH Says:

    LG Tromm WM2077CW
    OE Error Code during rinse cycle only – won’t drain
    wash cycle works – drains
    None of the drain hoses are plugged, nothing in filter

    Anyone else have this problem or any suggestions?

  171. Nancy Mc Says:

    Thanks Woody, I hang on your every word hehehe Kathy H that is a Woody question, hang tight, he will answer.. :)

  172. Woody Says:

    KathyH, the error code you are getting is refering to the fact the washer is not draining, but you already know that !

    A number of things can cause the washer to not drain. Over sudsing is one of those things. If you have checked the pump clean out and the hoses and you are not oversudsing,then you have done pretty much what you can do. I am not generally comfortable suggesting what else it might be because I don’t want people running out and buying new parts that might not be the correction. A few simple tests using a volt or ohm meter will tell a qualified person if the pump is getting the signal to operate or not.

  173. Darin Says:

    Woody, couldnt find a 6450 anywhere. Lowes said they’re phasing them out. I bought the 5400. Is there any reason for spending 7 – 800 on a dryer when you can get something to heat up and dry your clothes for $250 ? I’d like to get a matching set but I’m a bit more practical. Know what I mean ? Its not like we’re displaying it in the living room

  174. KathyH Says:


    Thanks. I have actually removed the drain hose and it is clear. All filter are clear as well. I have also tipped it over and removed the pump and found nothing big or wrapped up in there, but a great deal of grit and sand. I removed as much as I could (have done that two times), but still get the OE error. It seems like the impeller is not always spinning. Should I try some WD40 (I’ve seen someone else has done that and it worked for them) or maybe need a new pump?

  175. Ellen Says:

    Hey guys! This is Ellen from the Peach State (Georgia). I really, really enjoyed the posts from Nancy, Doris, of course Woody and several others. Nancy, really glad you got the job too! Doris, how did the laundry area come out, after you pimped it? LOL. Well, just wanted you 3 to know that based on your discussions in this forum, I was leaning heavily towards the LG,but didn’t want to be held hostage to when it comes to repairs, so yesterday, for mother’s day, my wonderful, wonderful hubby took me to Lowes and we purchased our first ever Bosch Vision 500 washer and dryer in silver. I saw it in anthracite and I sooooooooooooo envy Doris, but I settled for the silver, whcih is bettern than the white top loader I’m replacing. But I went with your discussion here, and used that in my purchasing decison. I will make sure to use a full load, the right amount of HE, and to keep the doors open to prevent mold. You all rock for the info you put out there to help us ‘newbies’ and I just had to let you folks know, and the others in this forum that I really, really appreciated the info. Well, it arrives on the 26th or so of May, so I am excited, especially to use the steam option for wrinkles and to lessen my dry cleaning bill-ugh! Thanks again guys, will keep you posted:)

  176. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hey Ellen and Marcos,

    CONGRATS Ellen, you will be so thrilled !!! What a wonderful hubby you have and smart too, because we all know “when Moma aint happy, NOBODY’S happy !” LOL I think you did your research and made an informed decision, that is what I did. Woody has been a lifesaver and a wealth of information. I too want to know how Doris pimped out laundry room came out. Come on Doris, keep us posted on the progress. Well, I start my new job come this Monday the 17th UGH, I was liking not working :) Ellen the service man said you HAVE to fill the machine up at least half way up the glass, I just keep towels handy and throw them in if I need too

  177. Mike Says:

    Thank you all so much! I am about to remodel the bonus room where the washer and dryer live. I have been drooling over the neat looking colored front loaders in the stores, but after reading ALL the posts, I’m going to hang on to my Whirlpool Heavy Duty High Capacity top loaders. I bought them in 1995 and other than a $ 40.00 belt for the washer about 5 years ago, they work perfectly. I will keep the Bosch comments in mind for the future, though. Thanks again!

    Mike in L.A.

  178. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hi Mike,
    Believe me, if I didn’t have to give my Whirlpool Duet, 7 yrs old, to the new homeowners I would have hung on to them as long as they would work ( yes, I am bitter LOL ) it was investors from Canada that bought my house. But on the bright side, I got a new Bosch 6450 and love them ! I was so glad I stumbled on to this site too, we are just your everyday down to earth people just wanting to make a good investment with our hard earned money !! I think you made a wise decision in keeping yours, and I drooled over the vibrant beautiful colors out there too, I was so bummed when I ended up with white :) That’s ok, my duets were a battleship gray so I welcomed white with open arms

  179. Lori Says:

    Hi Everyone!

    I love my new Bosch 800 series washer and dryer. They are ssooooo quiet and DON’T take long to dry. My Aqua stop hose was faulty and wouldn’t allow water into the machine. They quickly gave us regular hoses and my new one is on its way. So I haven’t tried the steam feature yet in my dryer as a result. I have never had clothes so clean and towels so fluffy. I use Tide He (powder) and Downy He (liquid). The clothes smell so fresh and stains–well, what stains? They are gone! My family thinks it’s hilarious because I am always asking them for their dirty laundry. I’ll keep in touch. Blessings, everyone!

  180. Nancy Mc Says:

    Lori, Hi
    Glad to know you got your machines !!! and thrilled you love them… I still love mine, but I still have a bad habit of not putting enough clothes in the washer and they wont spin at the high speed, they just slosh around, you would think after a month I would remember. My repairman said to keep towels handy to throw in to make it fuller and that is what I do… I just have to throw in a couple of large towels and that fixes the problem. Keep us posted, I love seeing what people buy and how they like them and how the machines perform. Nowdays you can do so much research that the mind goes into overload, mine did.. that is why when I found this site it was awesome… I just hope that people keep checking in to keep the site current so people that are out there searching will stumble on this site and have current info to make their informed decisions. :)

  181. Sunny Says:

    Hi everybody,

    I read all the posts and noticed that the Electrolux wasn’t mentioned much. Also, Woody, you mentioned that Electrolux has some issues, could you explain more about that please? I thought that they are the top of the lines in term of quality. They are quite expensive so I would like to know if they are really worth the money? Is there anything anybody can tell me about Electrolux? The model that I am looking at right now is Electrolux IQ-Touch with perfect steam (for both washer and dryer) I am not sure about the steam option in the washer but definitely want it in the dryer. Please give me some advise, thank you very much.

  182. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hi Sunny,
    That is definitely a Woody question. I do know that the colors are awesome, other than that don’t know much . Hang tight, Woody should answer soon, he usually does.

  183. kassie Says:

    Hi woody,

    because of your post, i went with the bosch vision 500 series. because they phased out 64500, I brought the wfvc544. It was very funny how the salesperson was trying to sell me the LG instead. But I told him about the common complaints of not having repair part available in a timely fashion. He was amazed that a consumer would know about these complaints. I was going to cont using my old kenmore dryer, but it looks like I may have to invest on a new one now. Just want to know if you have read the article review by the goodhouskeeping.com in regards to the bosch dryer being overheated very easily. Have you seen that often, either at your own household or with your customers? I would appreciate any feedback. Thank you.

  184. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hi Kassie
    I have the Bosch 6450 and haven’t had a problem. I do know that I called around to different repairmen ( that don’t sell machines ) and they all said they and their families and friends have the Bosch and love them and that is what they suggested to buy. If there was a problem with overheating I would think they would have told me and not recommend them, or if they did know they would have said stay away from the certain series, but who knows. I too want to know what Woodie has to say :)

  185. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hi everyone,
    If I remember correctly, Woody has a daughter graduating from College, so maybe that is why there is a delay, I am hoping at least. I would hate to think the captain has abandoned ship LOL

  186. kassie Says:

    hi Nancy

    thank you for your input. I will then definitely go ahead with the bosch dryer as well. Hopefully woody would answer soon just let all of us know he is ok.

  187. Woody Says:

    Hi! I’m back.
    Electrolux: There is an article on Appliance Journal (see link on top of page to the right)”Why Kenmore front load washers fail”
    In that article it is exposed that certain Kenmore front load washers and GE front load washers are made by Frigidaire. The blog is hardly complementary of the Frigidaire. The parent company of Frigidaire is ELECTROLUX. Therefore what I tell people is that Electrolux is a Frigidaire with lipstick.

    Bosch dryers over heating? Dryers are now, and have been for a number of years required to have sensors that indicate overheating conditions. When this happens on a Bosch the dryer displays an “E01″. This does not mean the dryer is necessarily overheating. 99% of the time problem is determined to be a restricted vent system or improper installation. Unless it has recently changed, the Good Housekeeping Seal of approval applies to Bosch appliances. Of course have you ever talked to anyone who has made a claim under the good housekeeping seal guarantee? I walked through it and it takes time, a lot of time to get you money back or another product. But to answer your question, our experience with E01 codes is not overheating, but venting issues, cleaning lint filter etc.

    The 6450 is not being phased out, it is only available at certain dealers so a dealer who does not have it will have to defend himself for not having it. The basic difference is that the 6450 spins on high spin 50-100 rpm faster and the machine has a 175 degree tub cleaning cycle. Neither is a big deal if you are using the machine correctly.

    Nancy, I agree that load size can affect spinning but I don’t have that issue frequently with ours, nor do the others I am aware of. While it is in warranty have them come out and check out the machine once more just to be sure. It shouldn’t cost you anything. There is one company in Utah I would chose over the others. I don’t know which one you called. Also, I understand it is snowing in UTAH again, but my friends in Wisconsin are having 90 degree weather. Got your food storage?

  188. Gretchen Says:

    Hi Woody,

    Thanks for all of your valuable info. Before I buy an appliance I always do hours of research, but just reading this thread I feel pretty informed. My husband did not read this forum, but I still let him go with me this morning to purchase a new washer/dryer.

    Our old pair died and after reading all of your rec.s, I went with the idea of ONLY buying a Bosch set, preferably the 500 or 800 series. We shop for all appliances at a local (extremely reputable) appliance store. They carry all brands.

    Long story short, after the salesman talked to us (my husband) decided the Asko sounded like the better machine. I know you’ve mentioned them in the past (that you had owned one), but I don’t find any other opinions on this forum.

    We only paid $200 more for the pair. They come with a 2 year warranty instead of one. If I really push the issue, I can call and have them change my order…….I’m not having them delivered till Friday.

    Any thoughts?

    And by the way, this company is an authorized Asko and Bosch repair center…..the guy said they are both excellent machines.

    Thanks so much!!!

  189. Sue Says:

    A friend bought an Asko a few years back and, while I was duly impressed with how well it cleaned a much beloved stuffed animal that accidentally took a swim in the toilet during a sleepover, she says the cycle time is insanely long and it makes doing laundry a real ordeal. So that would be the one issue I’d check ASAP.

  190. Woody Says:

    To reply to Sue’s comment first I would have to know if her friend had an XL Asko or the “W” series. If it is a “W” series then it is not a fair comparison as they are two different types of machines.

    The XL series Asko does not take any longer than other large capacity “American Sized” (supersize me) machines.

    Gretchen, you put me in a hard position as we too service the Asko and Bosch products as a manufacture representive (and LG & Whirlpool brand). Even at the same price, let alone $200 more, I am going without hesitation to the Bosch if given the choice between the two. (Sorry Asko)

    The Asko XL is actually made by Dawoo. We have had some vibration issues with them (especially on pedestals)and until that is resolved fully then I will stray from them. Asko is working on the situation but they have no solid fixes or answers for us yet. Asko has been very generous helping anyone with an unresolved problem though.

    If you do buy the Asko, it actually has a THREE year warranty on the machine IF you register it with ASKO in the first few months you get it. The raggin red color and the pure platnium colors are difficult to resist.(sort of like you ladies :)

    And in case you didn’t know there are different promotions on products. Manufactures give what are called “spiffs” to the sales people, which are cash incentives. So sometimes what they sell can be distorted by the almighty dollar. It’s just a fact of life. Asko will tend to have higher margins for the dealer than Bosch because you don’t find Asko at major dealers like Sears, Lowes, Home Depot etc.

  191. Nancy Mc Says:

    WOODDYYYYYYY !!!!! I thought you left us ! I was so sad… hope your daughter got through college ok… I called Appliance Service by Paul… What is the one you were thinking of? I know the first time I had that problem, I had 2 small items and it wouldn’t spin, the second time was 1 pair of King size sheets and 2 pillow cases. Before I call them back out, were my loads actually too small to cause them not to spin on high speed ? And YES, it snowed for a couple of hours today, big ole flakes, couldnt believe my eyes, got home from work and it is sunny and 54, mother nature is playing a cruel trick on me boo hoo All the trees looked like Christmas trees… and I am working on my years supply, guess around here you never know when you are going to get snowed in :)

  192. Gretchen Says:


    You’re killin me!! (the platinum was my favorite!) I had finally talked myself into keeping the Asko…..however, I did read about a Bosch rebate, so I called the store where we bought the machines to ask my sales person about the rebate…..he said he would investigate….I told him I could find it quicker just using my computer. He said I could still change my mind about the Asko and go for the Bosch if I called him EARLY in the morning!

    During the sales pitch, he stated that Asko and Electrolux were the only two washers that are doing anything proactively regarding the mold/mildew problems. He said the Asko has a filter going through the large rubber door-frame gasket which keeps the mold/mildew from building up and that the Electrolux is using a Microban product on the gasket.

    It seems like I remember you (or someone on the computer) mentioning Samsung using silver ions? Am I losing my mind?

    Also, he said that Bosch didn’t actually use steam in the dryer, but used a mist instead. Said that Asko uses actual bursts of steam in the dryer. (it sounded good in the store, but sounds ridiculous as I’m typing.)

    ANYWAY, after the gasket speech and the mist vs. steam comment, I decided on the Asko.

    After your above comment, I think I’ll switch my order in the morning to the Bosch.

    It is a strange Gold color, but not ugly. It is the Vision 500 series with Aquastop.

    I hope you get this tonight. Your poor wife must get sick of us paranoid appliance buyers. Tell her she’s a trooper.

    Thanks Woody! I promise, no more questions.


  193. Woody Says:

    Good to be back, I think. Too much to do!!!!

    Yup! They are the best company to call. I am well aquainted with the owner and their staff. Share emails with them frequently. They have been in business forever. I understand the owner is third generation. If for ANY reason you don’t think the machine is operating as it should give them a call. If nothing else it A. Won’t cost you for them to come out in the warranty period and B. It creates a service history so if you have an issue in the future you will be able to document the problem existed from early on. As with any machine though, the more it has in it of similair type fabics the more easily it can balance the load.

    Daughter’s graduation (Master’s degree) was awsome. She even got a surprize award as the graduate most likely have to a positive impact on a students life! I’m so proud…..

    Now she has to get a REAL job with all that education. She has several offers on the table but hasn’t chosen yet. She could wind up on either coast or in the South. She may even be offered a job at the college. Stay warm.

  194. Woody Says:

    You must be talking about the Champagne color. Do they have the silver ?

    Yes, the Bosch dryer uses “MIST CARE” with three settings. My daughter loves it! My wife hasn’t used hers because I didn’t hook it up yet. (She doesn’t know it’s there so I’m safe for now)

    Can’t comment on the Asko steam dryer as it is brand new and I haven’t even seen one yet. They are scheduled to do training on them in June for us. I’m sorry about the Platnium because that is what we had and my ooed and ahhed when she saw it. Her opinion changed though when we couldn’t keep it from going for a walk without asking first.

    Mold is not an issue with ANY washer if you use the correct detergent AND leave the door open once in a while. The mold free material you mention was first used by Maytag during the Neptune 2nd generation. It is nothing new.

    Now I am feeling the weight of everyone’s decision. I better be careful. So I am told: Confucius say “Make your words SOFT and SWEET you may one day have to eat them” :)

  195. Gretchen Says:


    We won’t make you “eat” any of your words. However; I’m going to call and change my order. If your wife and daughters love the Bosch, that’s a pretty great testimony since you have most all brands at your disposal! And my husband just told me the “gold” color is actually SEPIA.

    Congrats on your daughter! She sounds like a wonderful young woman….I know you all are proud. Our son has one more yr. of undergrad and will then hopefully be attending medical school. We also look forward to graduation!

    Thanks again for all of your opinions! We value them.

  196. Nancy Mc Says:

    Gretchen Gretchen Gretchen… I feel your confusion… I was like that before coming to this site. I was torn between the awesome brick color GE Profile( which I now know would have been a big mistake, but I could have drooled over the beautiful color while waiting on a repairman LOL ) and the white Bosch 6450… but after careful consideration and research I went with the Bosch. I do remember when in the store the sales person kept pushing the LG to the point of making me mad. It was like no other brands even existed.

    Woody you have every right to brag on your daughter !!! What a great honor, that is awesome. I know you and your wife were smiling from ear to ear, I know I sure would have. I am glad to hear good things about Paul and his business. I was impressed by him on the phone and his service tech. While my short time here in UT, I cant get over the nice people here, all the way from teenagers to adults. I feel like I am living in a Norman Rockwell painting. Woody, you have never said where you live… and believe me, I plan on staying warm :)

  197. Woody Says:

    A woman from Utah visiting the East coast was asked by another woman.
    “I see you are from Utah. How many wives does your husband have” to which the woman from Utah replied:

    “One more than he deserves” :)

  198. Nancy Mc Says:

    Ha Ha Woody,

    I had a brother in law that was married to girl who had been 1 of many wife’s, she had about 7 kids then left. She wouldn’t talk much about it, all she would say is ” It wasn’t good “. Needless to say, he is no longer married to her. My husband couldn’t handle another wife LOL as for me, I don’t like sharing !!! :) You still haven’t… said where you live… Check this out, it is to get around 70 today, after snowing yesterday… Is God mad at UT ? :)

  199. Russ Says:

    I am slow to convince in reading good or bad. Bosch is definitely one I am considering along with Electrolux and Samsung. Electrolux Boasts a wash time of 18 min & dryosch time of 18 min’s in a normal wash per the Lowes salesman. How clean will it get seems like the next unknown but the times are very short compared to other top loads. Samsung is on sale here at 20% off over memorial day, has the silver ION process and I have not read any/much on complaints. Bosch support here comes from the next state over vs. electolux. As for the LG- our sears store is pushing that hard just like mentioned in a previous email but although Sears shows it to be the #1 & #2 rated machine by “a consumer group”, based on Woodys and other folks email, they are not on my list. Thanks to all for their information as it is very helpful.
    Take care

  200. MJ Says:

    I’m trying to figure out the main differences between the Bosch Vision 500 and 800 series. In the washer, I understand the 1150 vs. 1200 RPM spin. Does that make a big difference? Any other differences? Is this all worth the $200-300 price increase.

    Same issue with gas dryers 500 vs. 800 series. Differences? Worth the $200-300 price increase?

    Thank you. The Bosch customer reps weren’t very helpful. The “compare” feature on line showed that the 500 had some features and the 800 had some others, but mostly the same. It wasn’t like the 800 had all the 500 features + others. There has to be some “market segment” reason for the higher models.

    Thanks for any help you can provide!

  201. Woody Says:

    From experience you most likly will not use any of the added features of an 800 series Bosch. Most of it is bells and whistles that some people want. Some customers want to buy the best and the MOST expensive because they think if it costs more it is better. Save the money and buy a 500 series. If you can find a dealer in your area that sells the 6450 washer then that is the best value. The 6450 model is sold only at certain dealers and usually not Lowes and Sears.

    Looks like you did your homework. A+

  202. MJ Says:

    Thanks Woody. Very helpful. So you’re saying the additional 50rpms of spin will not make a big difference?

    Bosch may make great appliances, but their product marketing dept could use an upgrade. Why make a higher-end product if you can’t explain why the consumer should spend the extra money on it?

  203. Trisha Says:

    Woody, I really hope you don’t mind one more person asking a question. I learned so much from you on this site. We will be buying a washer & dryer this weekend. We narrowed it down to your highest recommendations. But we have just 1 serious thing to consider. On other sites most people say that the LIQUID DETERGENT is what ruins the machines and causes mold. But we have a septic system and we’re told to NOT USE POWDERS of any kind in any plumbing. Is it true that the liquid is the problem with the front loaders? Its the Bosch for us unless you say liquids are the problem, then we’ll go with your next recommendation, the Whirlpool top loader. For all you’ve already helped us with, THANK YOU and hoping you’ll answer once more, THANK YOU SO MUCH – we wish you a Happy Memorial Day Weekend!

  204. Woody Says:

    The mold issues are really mostly in the past. New door gaskets being used by the manufactures are preventing it. Liquid HE detergents are fine IF you use the proper amount based upon YOUR water conditions. Soft water for example requires much less product than hard water.

    If you will leave the door to the washer open occasionally, especially when not in use this will prevent any mold problems. Are you allowed to use ANY powder with you septic system, like dishwasher detergents? Certain models of the Bosch have a tub cleaning cycle also.

    If you have a septic system though you won’t be doing your system any favors by using a top loader because they use so much more water. Hope I have covered this for you.

  205. Trisha Says:

    Woody – We were told to not use powder in the dishwasher either. In fact sometimes I would use baking soda to clean certain things in the sink and when the septic man came to empty the septic, he said to stop using ALL powders including baking soda – also said that if it builds up, it will be hard to find a septic company that will remove it.

    So Thank You, Woody! Now we just have to find someone that sells the 6450 and if we can’t, we’ll get the 500 Bosch set!

    I read elsewhere to not use fabric softener and to use vinegar instead. I’ll do what it takes to keep these machines “healthy”.

    You’ve been so generous with your time and your wisdom! I printed up everything you wrote and showed it to my husband and after reading it, he agreed to get the Bosch.
    We will take your advice – every bit of it – the proper detergent, the right amount, leaving the door open, etc. You are probably helping many more people than those that have written! God Bless You! And again, Thank You!

  206. Trisha Says:

    ps – - – I forgot to say that we have hard water and no water softener. Thinking about getting one, though.

  207. Nancy Mc Says:


    I have hard water and no softener and a Bosh 6450, I use the powder and I use 1 and 1/2 Tablespoons detergent. I have had mine about a little over a month and no mold problems.. but…. I leave my detergent drawer and washer door open slightly when I am through washing. Let us know what you buy :)

  208. Trisha Says:

    Nancy Mc – Thank you for the input. The only problem I have is the septic system where we’ve been warned by our septic cleaning company not to use powders in any plumbing of any kind.

    Actually we will take Woody’s advice and look for the 6450 like you have but we don’t know who carries that model. Woody says that Lowes and Sears don’t carry that model so we’ll check around and if we can’t find it, we’ll go with the 500 Series. Hopefully we’ll get a nice Memorial Day Weekend sale!

    Happy Weekend!

  209. Woody Says:

    Thanks for teaching ME! We don’t have a lot of septic systems in our area. I did some research. Here is a great link. Did your septic guy tell you to consider a drain filter?


  210. Nancy Mc Says:


    I was told to use 1 and 1/2 Tablespoons for the liquid too… Good luck finding the model 6450, I am very pleased with mine. Plus I found the most wonderful service man :) Just in case I have real problems other than not putting enough clothes in it to make it spin :)

  211. Trisha Says:

    No, our septic guys didn’t mention anything about a drain filter. But it sure sounds worth looking into. I will check out the link and start researching drain filters. We’re in northwest Jersey just minutes from Orange County NY – a lot of septic systems in our area and well water.

    We had the septic cleaned out 5 months ago. There’s a new law that you have to have it cleaned out every 3 years. If they come to your house and you don’t have paperwork proving the date of the service, the fine is something like $100 per day for each day until it’s done.

    The timing for me to find this site couldn’t have been better. Very nice people here and very helpful! I know it’s hard to believe but I “love” doing laundry. Have Happy 3 Day Weekends, Everyone!

  212. Lori Says:

    Hi Everyone! I bought the 800 series and I love it! Woody, I bought the 800 series because it had some bells I liked and I bought it for the price of the 6450 because my husband knew a friend who owns an appliance store. Anyway, I am still loving them, though my new aqua stop hose hasn’t arrived yet. By the way, I have no trouble with the dryer overheating. In fact I can put it on the hottest setting and my clothes come out dry–not hot as with my old machines! I have no trouble with the washer spinning at full speed. It’s a thing to behold! I don’t miss beating my laundry on the rocks in the backyard! Hope everyone is well! Blessings!

  213. Nancy Mc Says:

    Lori !!!!

    I am so glad you got your new washer and dryer and thrilled you got the Bosch’s.. I still love mine and so far no mold, but I pamper my new set :) Don’t you just love it when you get a good deal ? I know I do. I sure do love all my conveniences, I don’t think I would have made a good pioneer :)

  214. Lori Says:

    Hi Nancy!
    I wouldn’t make a good pioneer either. My daughter thinks it’s hilarious that I like to watch the washer spin. it’s just that I was so tired of the rocks….:):)

  215. Mike Z Says:

    I have a washer that sometimes won’t spin unless I manually move the drum around and then it does not seem to do the job of getting the water out completely. Thus drying times are greatly increased. My wife is not happy so “aint nobody happy”, especially me. I have read all of these posts and it only confirms what a crapshoot it is in buying a new appliance. My first preference therefore is to try and fix the spin problem but only if it is a diy project as I have had nothing but bad experiences trying to get appliances repaired. Has anyone had this problem and if so what was the diagnosis? Woody, have read all your advice and words of wisdom. Any recommendations?

  216. woody Says:

    Without a make and model number I don’t know what product you have other than a “washer”.:) Age and how much it gets used would be helpful information als:o.

    Seems to me so far that these ladies are enjoying there new Bosch washers, so I don’t think you need to have any intrepedation other than laying out the CASH$$$ :(

  217. woody Says:

    Seems to me also that I better edit and use the spell check also!

  218. Mike Z Says:

    Sorry about that. It is a Kenmore Elite. Purchased around 1999. Washes 6 to 8 loads per week. If you need model # I’ll have to look it up in the morning.

  219. Bryan Says:

    I see here listes an LG steam washer as one of the 3 best washers out there. I haven’t really seen much information about that particular model, but given the age of this post it is possible that it has been replaced by a newer model. With its 4.2 cu foot capacity, and a price tag lower than the 1300 listed here, and based on this LG WM2501HWA review it sure seems like this is a pretty good front load washer too.

  220. Woody Says:

    Just make sure you have a loyal LG service company in your area.
    Personally I haven’t found the value in a steam washer. There are some advantages to dryers with steam or “mist” though.

  221. Nancy Mc Says:

    What does it mean when I put my laundry in, go to get it out and it still has the original time left on the display but the clothes fill like they have been washed ? I have the Bosch 6450. This has happened several times, I just put them thru the wash again but what is going on? By the way, I miss talking to you and the gang.. Oh, I quit my job this week, a call center is NOT for me, Lord help the people that work in them LOL I do have an interview next Tuesday with the state prison, looked up the address and it is only 3 miles from my home YIKES, didnt know it was so close. :)

  222. Woody Says:

    Actually I understand that prison is called the “point of the mountain”. Nearby is Ball mountain. Some people wanted to refer to it as the “Ball Point Pen” (ha ha ha)

    Your washer is normal. After a period of time the display just reverts back to the original display for the cycle selected.

    Good luck on the job hunt.

  223. Nancy Mc Says:

    Woody arent we clever ? hehehehe So does that mean that I would have to get inked ? ( that is what they call getting a tatoo in prison ) you know ink to go in the ball point pen hehhe hahahaha

    Thanks for the info on the washer, guess my clothes have been getting really clean getting washed twice.. and ya know they will wear out faster and darn, will have to go shopping to replace them :)

  224. Woody Says:

    Why did the little ink drops start crying?

    Their mother was in the pen and they didn’t know how long the sentence was.

  225. KButler Says:

    Dear Woody,
    My beloved stack Maytag washer/dryer finally gave up during our first major snow storm last December. Dreading the thought of enduring the hassle of trying to replace it, especially dealing with incompetent sales people. I’ve been going to the commercial laundry facilities. But the time has now come to purchase. I cannot thank you enough for being on this site. I live in the Washington DC area (and would also offer to buy you dinner the next time you come to visit your sweet daughter.) May I ask you two questions, is there a Bosch stacking unit or units (27inch) you recommend? And is there an independent dealer here in Northern Virginia? Blessings to you! K

  226. Theresa Says:

    Background: My 8 1/2 yr old Kenmore Washer broke last weekend. Didn’t know better & called Sears service. They come out today to look at.

    In the meantime, I’ve been researching new washers/dryers and came upon this site. EXCELLENT information from everyone (yes, I did review other sites as well).

    After doing further research, if I need to purchase a new set, I am looking at the Bosch 500 Series w/Aqua Stop (5440UC & 5330US)

    FYI: My present set was intentionally purchased cheap. This time, I want energy savings & efficiency, while also finding the best price.

    Which leads to the present: In the area I live, according to the Bosch site, there are basically 3 places to purchase; Best Buy, Lowes & Sears. Prices vary: Lowes beats Best Buy by $100 with Sears in the middle.

    Question: Where is the best place to buy from? I would have assumed Lowes until reading this site. So, do I assume Best Buy then?

    Any opinion is appreciated!
    Thank you!

  227. Sandy Says:

    Hi: I’m in heavy-duty research mode for a new washer and dryer. Thanks for all who’ve given their experiences, especially Woody for giving so much expert’s advice.

    So, I just found someone who’s got a 1-2 yr old Bosch front load Nexxt 500 series (WFMC5301UC) washer to sell for $450. The story: Her father is owner of a Utah new sales & service appliance store and he just brought her this washer as a replacement for the one she was having problems with. She liked her old one and had the repair done and wants to keep it. So she’s selling this one, which had it’s front door and water pump replaced by her father’s service guys. So — should I take the risk? I know, you give no guarantees :-)

  228. woody Says:

    I don’t know about the story that goes along with the washer but you can buy a 6450 BOSCH vision in Utah for $765. There are as many as three rebates available depending on your utility companies totaling $225. So it would be possible to purchase a NEW machine with more features, better vibration technology etc for as little as $550 with a warranty. So I would suggest you negotiate the price lower. Personally I wouldn’t pay more that $300 for a used front loader. If you want to get me the serial number (starts in FD) I will tell you when it was manufactured.

  229. Nancy Mc Says:


    I don’t know where in UT you live but I do know the best repairman… Appliance service by Paul,(801) 262-7626‎, Salt Lake area, and if I am not mistaken he can also get you Bosch appliances… check them out, its worth a try :) by the way went to a wedding in Evanston, WY this weekend, up in the Uintas… it SNOWED !!! it was absolutely beautiful.. didn’t stick thank goodness…

  230. Sandy Says:

    Hi Woody & Nancy: This site — and you folks — are amazing, glad I found you. Thanks for your quick response, and your logic (Nancy, thanks for the Utah repair suggestion — I live in Southern California. Any suggestions for Orange Co?? :-) . So I just got back from seeing the washer, and the young lady said she’d give me a $$-back written guarantee if it didn’t work properly. Woody, I’m sure she’d give me the serial number if I decided to pursue it. BUT, after reading your comments re the price of a new machine in Utah, I did some online detective work. The cheapest price I found so far for the 500 series around here is $930, minus $170 rebates if I lived in a water district that I don’t live in (that includes Lowe’s & Sears). The 300 series low price I found was $830. Hmmph. This obviously calls for more detective work, so I’ll call some of the appliance sales places in my area (it’s Sunday after 5 pm) and get their prices for the 6450 BOSCH Vision, after any rebates we have here. I checked online with my water district, and they’ve got rebates only for commercial laundries. I’ll call them tomorrow, too.
    New versus used is always a dilemma, and if I had to pay $995 (including tax, but with no rebates) for a 6450, that’s about a $500 difference between the new/used. I’ll check with the used machine seller tomorrow, tell her about your $300 statement, and see what response I get.
    Thanks so much for your help with my washing machine detective project!

  231. Nancy Mc Says:


    I just assumed you lived in UT ( you know what they say about assuming :) I know nothing about CA, sorry… visited Huntington Beach once for 3 days and that is the extent of CA for me…. Good luck with your search, you would be surprised what you might find… let us know what you find, I always find it interesting

  232. Sandy Says:

    Nancy, Your response made me smile. I live right on the boundary of Huntington Beach, about a mile from the beach. No snow here. You bet I’ll let you know what I find. I came across the Journal while I was researching this morning. (And procrastinating about getting ready for summer school.) I really enjoyed people’s posts, and their attitudes. Reminded me of Garrison Keiler’s Prairie Home Companion joke about starting a website for “nice people saying nice things.”

  233. Nancy Mc Says:

    The weekend we were at HB, we went to see the Queen Mary..Tons and Tons of people, it was miserable… When we got up to give the man our tickets, he said ” you have tickets ?!”, come to find out it was FREE day for anyone having a CA driver license YIKES, we had no idea and to top it off we had to PAY LOL oh well, worth seeing..

    We all found this site in our quests of a good washer and dryer. And I agree with you that we are nice people hehehehe … believe me if we didn’t like our new washer and dryers we would say so… I want to help people to make an informed decision. Woody has been a god send to us :)

  234. Nancy Mc Says:

    Woody you are slipping !!! You never answered KButler… and here I thought you were perfect LOL

  235. KButler Says:

    Nancy…you are so sweet to nudge Woody on my behalf. You two are delightful beyond description! I’d still love to know if there is a dryer he might recommend to match the 6450 and whether they can be stacked. Also desperately seeking a sweet dealer in Northern Virginia.
    Hugs to you! Kitty

  236. Nancy Mc Says:


    Sometimes old people need nudging ! LOL I mean after all he does have 9 kids and I dont know where he finds the time to do this, but we all are very thankful that he does find the time ! Just got back from my interview at the prison, scary , you know the sound in the movies where you hear the loud door slam ? Well, that is EXACTLY what it sounds like!! gave me chills.. it was overwhelming but exciting… hope it turns out

  237. Woody Says:

    Woman’s faults are many.
    Men have only TWO
    Everything they say and
    EVERYTHING they do.

    Weird, I thought for sure I answered her question.
    Bosch Vison laundry will stack with a stacking it. (also adds a convenient pull out shelf when you do stack them)
    I don’t know any dealers in Virginia, sorry.
    We will be coming to move my daughter sometime in late July early August so I will soon lose our D.C. connection. She is done being a “gradual” student, has her Masters and is taking a job teaching the deaf. Come with A PAYCHECK, therefore the 1ST National Bank of Dad may be losing a customer.

  238. Nancy Mc Says:


    I knew you would not let Kitty down… Kitty will now give you hugs.. you are so wise and full of wisecracks… guess you gotta have some kind of humor with 7 girls… LOL where did she take her teaching job ? And if I don’t get a job soon I may have to come to your bank hehehe

  239. Woody Says:

    Utah School for the Deaf and Blind, Salt Lake City.

    :) The bank will consider you application.

  240. Nancy Mc Says:

    Well, well, well, she is going to be here in my area … What a wonderful gift she has, I know you are so proud ! Since we sold are house we are totally debt free !!!!!! but we are homeless LOL

    I do have a question on my Bosh dryer, remember the first and only time I tried the steam dryer ? well, I took my pants out 6 minutes early and when I put them on they were very damp ( and had to go out in the snow ) ok, ok, here is my question: If you leave the garment in the whole cycle when you take it out, is it damp ? Guess I could try it LOL but that is too much trouble

  241. Woody Says:

    There are three different mist cycles. The degree of dampness at the end of the cycle depends on the cycle you choose.

  242. Nancy Mc Says:

    HMPH… I just looked at my dryer and lo and behold it had 3 different steam settings LOL My question still stands…. when you let any of them run their course, do the garments come out damp?

  243. Kim Hoffman Says:

    My Maytags, washer/dryer, are being replaced after 20 1/2 years of great performance. Dryer still works but washer has a bad leak, bottom back corner. Only maintenance required during this time was dryer belt replacement, twice.
    Wish appliances were still made to last. I greatly appreciate advice on this blog because I’m very unsure if Maytag is still the best. Love steam feature but have seen many negative remarks while searching the web. Guess I need to go to Lowe’s, & Sears, and make a decision. Gonna miss my super dependable set!

  244. Mandy Says:

    Woody has done such a good job selling Bosch products, I feel the need to include my input. We have had terrible experiences with all 3 of our Bosch appliances in the last 3 years.

    1. The dishwasher clogs easily and the little detergent door sticks, so during the cleaning cycle it doesn’t open fully and the detergent doesn’t come out. I have to set a timer to go off 30 minutes into the wash cycle, so I can open the door, scoop out the detergent, close and restart it. Ridiculous!

    2. The front-loading washing machine (Nexxt 100 series) has a rubber ring that sits just inside the door. This rubber ring grabs little socks and underwear and holds them captive, so when the wash is done, they remain dirty and soggy. This happens every cycle! If you have children with little socks do not get this washer. The rubber ring also has gotten moldy and smelly. It is really the last place I want to be putting our clothing.

    3. The dryer has some electrical problem which allows us to select which cycle to dry the clothes, but then the “on” button becomes unresponsive. Totally unpredictable, too, so I’ll be able to dry one load without problems, then the next load won’t dry, so I either have to hang the clothes or they sit wet until 24 hours or so later when, miraculously, the dryer decides it’s ready to work again.

    Please stay away from Bosch. It is an expensive brand and extremely overrated. Our appliance guy just shakes his head whenever he comes to fix these lemons.

  245. Nancy Mc Says:


    About 10 years ago I had a Bosch dishwasher and it was the best I had ever had and not one time did I have a problem and it was very quiet.Since moving to UT I have a Maytag, doesn’t work well, but it is a rented house. I know have the Bosch 6450 washer and dryer and love them, I don’t have a problem with mold and it is very quiet when spinning in the high speed. The only complaint I have with them is I cant wash a small load, that still really irritates me but if that is my only irritation then I will take it. I am sorry you have had so many problems, I am anxious to see what Woody has to say.

  246. Woody Says:

    Thanks for you well written comments Mandy. I am not here to spar with anyone just share my time and my knowledge, the only thing any of us has to sell. But the internet is full of lousy information and feedback and little accreditation.

    My comments are based upon personal experience,use and of the experience of my customers and those who might still call me a friend. My family has been in the appliance business for 96 years. In those 96 years we have seen a lot of machines come and go, a lot of promises made and broken, some innocently and some just out right lies.

    I have a business in service and repair with 15 technicians and we represent nearly EVERY brand of washer and dryer as their authorized service. I have watched the new “energy efficient” appliances march into the forefront, many of them poorly thought out and engineered. An article on Appliance Journal lengthier than this one in scope, details problems with the other brands which are meeting their demise in just a few years. So what should we buy Mandy? You offer criticism but no real life answer. What does your “repairman” suggest? Who is your repairman? An authorized trained person who represents the product you purchased for the manufacture or just a “guy who fixes appliances”?

    Your Bosch washer came with a small knit items bag with a zipper for small socks and anklets. Why do you think they send it? Do you use it? And a 100 series Bosch washer is hardly expensive. Your mold problem is from using the wrong types of detergents and too much detergent and never leaving the door open. Is that the fault of Bosch? What brand front loader doesn’t or hasn’t had mold problems? Please name me one brand.

    What is your Bosch dishwasher “plugging” up with? Food or hard water deposits? I am fully aware of the simple filtration system the Bosch dishwasher has. Fine particles don’t go through the wash arms. Is you dishwasher plugging up because of a faulty installation, a bad drain line, hard water? I don’t know. Detergent cup door broken, yes I’ve seen a few on all brands. It is an easy repair. The lid costs $20 and the entire assembly is $57. Compare that to the dispenser assembly on a KitchenAid dishwasher at $109 ! Almost twice as much! Why has your “repairman” who shakes his head not taken care of that for you? Not using the dishwasher function to dispense detergent and relying on your own timing? There is a reason dishwashers dispense at a specific time. Failure to get the detergent in the cycle in the proper place will result in poor washability.

    We have no idea what kind of vent you have on your dryer or how you care for you appliances. Odds are you have a venting issue which is causing your dryer to overheat and it shuts off till it cools down and is safe to use. Perhaps the door latch is not adjusted. If this is happening it is a warning that something needs attention. I certainly would not want someone working on my appliance that “shakes his head” when the name is mentioned. They obviously don’t have any faith in the product they have been asked to service. You would want a doctor leaning over your bedside with the same look and shaking his head?

    I don’t sell appliances. I don’t get endorsements. I am “married” to any recommendation I give. My customers and my neighbors still like me yet they have followed my advice. I was once very high on another brand. They served us up a variety of excellent products until they fell victim to wanting MARKET SHARE and sacrificed everything for a lower price and lower quality. They fell into disrepair and even to this day people continue to buy that “brand” not knowing it is just another make with a different name attached to it.

    Appliances and people are not perfect and never will be. For now, until something better comes along the Bosch laundry is what my family will be using. My wife will not have another dishwasher after all the brands and models that have been thrust at her over the years except for a Bosch. I can bring her a new model to test but not another brand. (I did sneak in a Thermador SAPHIRE on her a couple of months ago. She loves it. It’s a Bosch with lipstick and jewelry!)

    I had a manufacture give me a GREAT deal on a new laundry pair. I decided to try them out because we service the brand and it was after all a GREAT DEAL! These machines at retail are over $3500! First impression by the family was WOW DAD those look AWSOME. Of course two weeks later they were asking me if I had a conscience. “You don’t actually tell people to buy these do you?” Needless to say they are not longer in our home. The person who purchased them from me was given FULL disclosure but they too were seduced by the price.

    Whirlpool thinks they have the next answer to a great washer, a top loader. We trained on it last week. They claimed to have test marketed for 2 years which is highly unusual nowadays. They identified a few areas of concern with it and I don’t think we will be wanting for service calls. At $599-$699 people will buy it. Only time will tell where the value is.

    In the meantime let’s take Mandy’s advice and NOT buy a Bosch. Let’s go buy a KENMORE built by LG, Samsung, or whoever Sears makes the best deal with. Who knows maybe Whirlpool will get another try. Maybe Frigidaire/ Electrolux have their drum and spider problems solved so they will last more than 5 – 7 years. That way if you are not happy you can blog here about Mandy’s advice, good or bad, however it turns out to be. Maybe someone will get her to say what brand she is banking on next.

    And Mandy, let me know your Bosch model number and I’ll send you a free detergent cup assembly. You can probably install it yourself. Takes about 5 -10 (not counting head shaking time) I wouldn’t want that guy doing it who shakes his head at your Bosch products. He might think you were trying to prove him wrong.

    GOSH! Seems like Monday all over again. Happy Birthday coming up AMERICA. Land of the Free and home of the FREE Energy Rebates for all! Where did they get that FREE money to give you anyway? It doesn’t matter, just take it and run, no strings attached.

  247. Nancy Mc Says:

    Woody, well said !!!!!!!!

    Mandy those of us who have bought the Bosch are pleased with them, well I am anyway, the others haven’t checked back in, but you can bet your bottom dollar if they were having problems they would have let us know :)

    Also before my Bosch I had a Whirlpool duet for 7 years and never had a problem or mold problem UNTIL I came to UT for 5 months and my 21 year old son lived in the house and did his laundry, I told him to use the HE for the front loader but he ran out and someone told him it was ok to use the regular detergent but use more of it, so he did and when I went back home after the 5 months the washer wreaked of mold.

    And yes, happy birthday America !!!

  248. Nancy Mc Says:

    Thanks Lloyd, we are here because we have all googled and found this site, most of us are researching for washer and dryers. I hope that people find some great info here.

    Woody, I have a question for you. My sister-in-law has a front loader that she got from Home Depot on Black Friday, I cant remember what brand, but here is my question. Twice a month she cleans with the A-fresh and then again with just plain Clorox. I remember my repairman told me to clean the machine with dish washing detergent, the kind you put in the dishwasher, but I cant remember how much he said to use.

    I still haven’t heard on the Prison job, so am still looking. :)

    Hope everyone had a fun and safe 4th. It was strange for me this year, coming from AZ where fireworks are prohibited, when sitting outside this years there were fireworks EVERYWHERE, couldn’t turn my head fast enough to see everything LOL It was awesome

  249. Woody Says:

    Nancy Mc
    Use powdered Cascade. Use the amount required for two normal dishwashing loads. I have a neighbor using the Afresh as a test right now. She has seen remarkable improvement in the condition of her washer. We are trying a couple of “experiements” which she is going to fill me in on how they work or do not work.

  250. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hey Woody,

    What conditions is she seeing? And do you put the powder in the washer or put in the detergent department? Also is using the straight bleach hurting anything ?

  251. Woody Says:

    Not really an applicable situation. She has a 10 year of machine which she was noticing some mold and odor. The newer machines have a mold resistant property, as does the replacement gasket if we decide to replace it. You need to make sure the detergent goes into the main wash cycle using the hottest available water, which on your Bosch is pretty darn hot water on the sanitary setting.

  252. Nancy Mc Says:

    Woody what would we do without you :) Your family is so lucky and of course your neighbors and friends. I remember when my brother-in-law was alive, he was a repairman in NM ( my home state ) and he was always helping out friends and family, don’t know how he made any money LOL .. just to make sure I understand correctly, I put the Cascade in the detergent cup ? or in the washer directly ?

  253. Lori Says:

    Hi Everyone! Hope you had a great 4th! I still love my new machines. My replacement Auto Stop hose finally arrived. It’s doing fine. I still love doing laundry. My family is happy because I won’t let them touch the machines. Translation: I do all of their laundry! Nancy I have used all 3 steam settings. Wood is correct in that the one you use determines how wet the clothes are when they come out. I work at Ann Taylor. Most of our clothes are dry clean only. Dry cleaning is very hard on fabrics. I put many of my sweaters and silks in on one of the steam settings (the lightest one) and they come out fine. I haven’t tried this with pure wool. I will try it on an old pair of pants or something I don’t wear anymore and let you know….

    Question for Woody: Can I use Dryel system in the Bosch dryer? I hesitate to put anything in there. I add fabric softener to the washer so I no longer use dryer sheets either. Thanks and hope you are well!

  254. Nancy Mc Says:

    Loriiiieeeee ( see me waving )

    I am so glad you don’t have to beat your clothes on the rocks anymore, I am sure they ruined the Ann Taylor ones LOL

    I just discovered Ann Taylor in Dec at the outlet mall in Park City UT.. boy, what I have been missing :) I fell in love with the store and clothes, very sophisticated.

    So, no matter what steam setting I use on the dryer they are going to come out damp ? So, that means that you cant do that and take them out immediately and wear them ? Guess it would feel good if I still lived in AZ :)

  255. Lori Says:

    Those rocks were hard on the clothes (no pun intended ha ha). The outlet is great too, but the quality and selection will be different than from Ann Taylor. Log onto the Ann Taylor website and see if you can leave your email. They will send you coupons via email–and most of the coupons are NICE! Our fall collection comes in later this month. The styles this fall will be comfortable, soft, with the old Ann Taylor quality. Happy Shopping!

    Nanceeeee! (See me waving…..back!

  256. Woody Says:

    I haven’t used Dryel much since it was first introduced. Some manufactures still have a “Dryel” cycle. But according to Dryel:

    Is Dryel safe to use in all dryers?
    The Dryel fabric bag is specially designed for use in household (including HE dryers) or Laundromat style dryers that are vented outside (electric, gas or propane). It can also be used in compact dryers.

    Interesting: My friend works at Ann Taylor. Better send Nancy some of those “friends and family” discounts.

  257. Nancy Mc Says:

    Lori glad to see that you can use the dryel in your machines, gotta keep those Ann Taylor clothes looking ship shape. I would love to have discounts but until I get a job shopping has been put on hold.. boo hoo .. Figured I better earn my keep and started mowing our lawn, man, I gotta get a job soon :)

  258. Amanda Says:

    Woody…I am wondering about the life expectancy of the Bosch. I mean, in reality, how long should consumers EXPECT their washer to last. I realize that you must factor in how much it is used, so lets go by young families with children who probably wash the most a week. (we are a family of 4) Obviously, the days of buying appliances as an investment for your family for 20+ years are gone!

    Also, how do the washers and stands work? Does it just sit on top of it? The reason I am wondering is I have to replace my 6 year old Kenmore HE3 washer or pay 650 to fix it, but my dryer is working fine. I was wondering if I could just buy the Bosch and 2 stands, then set my dryer on the other stand. The dryer is a Hotpoint. I realize that sounds junky to most, but why should I purchase a new dryer if it working fine? Is there a good reason? Isn’t matching really just a vanity issue?

    I really appreciate your advice.

  259. kassie Says:

    Hi Nancy and woody.

    just wanted to update you guys on my new bosch washer. Even though my husband “complained” that I spend sooooo much time researching to buy a new washer, he called me in New York after the first time he used MY new bosch and told me the washer works great and was impressed. I finally just settled in the new house here in Houston and the only sane thing I get to do in between my unpacking 200+ boxes is to do laundry!

    So thank you woody for all your advices.

    QUestion, what is the cascade powder for? I use only charlie’s soup, which I believe has the least chemical build up. Do I also need to use the cascade with chlorax?

    To amanda, I do think matching is a vanity issue. Most of it is sales pitch. The salesperson was working very hard to try to get me to buy the matching bosch dryer. I also have a hotpoint dryer that is doing its job, and keep it to lessen my carbon footprint.

  260. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hi Kassie,

    Glad you checked in and love your new washer and dryer !!! I feel your pain with the unpacking, I just went thru that in April. I unpacked like crazy the first 2 weeks then I just couldn’t make myself do anymore :) We are just renting and I shudder to think of moving again. I am not sure about the Charlies soap, but I would think using the Cascade would still be a good idea.

    Amanda, Woody is slipping again LOL he will check in later. I had the stands with my Whirlpool duets but it makes them so high cant fold clothes on them so I opted out this time and love being able to fold on them. The repairman said his wife got the Bosch and after 2 weeks got rid of her stands, I think hers was due to the noise it made when on high speed. Yea, having unmatching sets is a vanity thing, call me vain I guess LOL I like looking at sets that match and besides the new dryers are much more efficient :)

  261. monica Says:


    I cannot afford your lovely Bosch washer and dryer :(
    I would like to know if you have any input on the Whirlpool Cabrio WTW7800XL and Whirlpool Duet WFW9150WW. I found these at great prices in Scratch and Dent. But they don’t have matching dryers…
    Also, if you have to go for the least expensive, top loaders, with basic features -meaning wash and dry :) -, do you have any recommendations? or are they all going to break down in pieces after 1 week???
    Thank you!

  262. Woody Says:

    I wouldn’t worry about any brand just breaking down on you in a week. That can happen with any brand, even Bosch, but that is during any warranty period. What we are looking for are products that do the job, last a long time, and are reasonable to repair when they do break.

    What is your budget?

  263. Nancy Mc Says:


    You didn’t answer Amanda, guess all those kids are finally affecting you :) I just hope you have been on a great vacation, even though I am not working, I think I need a vacation, this mowing the lawn and preparing meals every evening is starting to suck ! LOL

  264. Keith C Says:

    Hi All,

    I just wanted to let you all know that the Samsung units (washer and dryer) I bought have been excellant. My Wife and Nanny tell me it gets the kids clothes clean even on the messiest of clothes. The vibration reduction technology is working just as it should. The dryer is awesome as well, we always use the sensor to dry and it works flawlessly. So glad I returned the Maytag Epic Z when I did.

  265. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hi Keith,

    Thanks for checking in !! Personally I think there are a lot of good washer and dryers out there, some are just better than others, depending on what your needs are. I still love my Bosch, only wishing I could wash smaller loads, but no biggie, I just throw some towels in. Glad to hear your Samsung’s are serving you well. Keep checking in :)

  266. monica Says:


    My budget was less than $1000…
    And after all the research and shopping around, I can see how unrealistic that is now. So we are considering buying used :(
    I just hate to pay these companies a lot for machines that they seem to make intentionally to last only 5 years so then we consumers, have to buy again (or spend sometimes a lot in repairs). Plus, let’s don’t forget installation fees and delivery (almost $200 more??!!).
    I do appreciate your reply and any other suggestions you might have :)

  267. Woody Says:

    I really can’t advise you on used because I don’t know what is available. Perhaps if you can find someone moving or or a reputable dealer in your area used would be fine. We still repair some of the old Neptunes and keep them in service but only after they have all the updates to them.
    If you are not in real need right now I would suggest you wait till labor day. Dealers are going to have some real bargains at some of the larger retailers. If you know what you are looking for you could score a real good deal. The other thing to consider is what energy rebates are available. In our area there are three totalling $225 on the washer. So if you can get a Bosch for $799 then your net on the washer is only $574! The dryers sell now for the same price of the washers (a strategy used to keep the price of the washers down) so that is where the big jump comes.

  268. Denise Says:

    I bought one of Kenmore’s first front loader models… before they had pedestals and came in a colour other than white. It was the mid-level model. It was the best washer I ever owned. It was a full-size stackable and it was a work horse. I used it for 6 or 7 years before I sold it with my house.

    My husband and I moved into a house with a Maytag Neptune front loader side-by-side set… what a P.O.S!! OMG! The latest in a series of mishaps is that the drum will not spin. 2 weeks ago, it would not drain. And there is no over-ride to drain the tub. We had to tilt the washer back to get the door lock to release. NEVER AGAIN! We’ve since read that our model has many, many glitches.

    I’m going back to Sears and getting another Kenmore front loader set.

  269. Woody Says:

    So which front loader Kenmore will you buy Denise? The Kenmore front loader built by LG, The Kenmore front loader built by Samsung or whatever front loader Sears decides to put their name on?

    BTW there is a door latch release to the Maytag you had inside the detergent dispenser. It is red, has a loop on it and you pull it to the left to release the door. That Maytag machine depending on vintage may be as old as 13 years. Not bad for a POS considering the 6-7 year span of the machines of most other front loaders. I will agree though the early Kenmore front loaders were above average. Most of them were Whirlpool built at that time. Sears later moved into a lower priced version built by Frigidaire.

  270. Denise Says:


    I wrote that comment before I read the whole lot of posts on these machines. And after I was trying to run a load since the washer had been “fixed again”… only to find that it half-filled and wouldn’t rotate to wash or spin out *argh!*. I ran across this thread while looking for the best front load washer reviews for 2010. I realise that Sears used to have a very reliable washing machine, and that may or may not be the case when I shop with them now. And yes, at the time, mine was built by Whirlpool. I’m still doing my research. I’ll buy when I’m done. This seems to be sale season though, so I’m trying to make a quick decision, without being hasty (unlike my previous comment).

    I checked for the door latch release in the detergent dispenser in the Maytag and I didn’t find it. My husband did find one, after reading the repair manual online and took the washer apart to get at a the pump to see if there was a clog that needed to be cleared. No clogg… but there was the drainage switch.

    I’ve bought used washers before… sometimes they were 10 years old and I still got at least 5 years out of them before I wanted something newer. I just wanted an upgrade. This Maytag has been a huge disappointment from the start. I won’t be buying another one.

  271. Lori Says:

    Dear Denise:

    Maytag isn’t what it used to be. Kenmore elite used to be wonderful. My set just died and I was relegated to pounding laundry on rocks in the yard (jk). My set was 19 years old! I just bought a Bosch set 800 series (at a real deal) and love them. My clothes come out of the washer damp, the spin is so good. The dryer never leaves my clothes feeling hot, but does dry them–to my specifications–there are lots of choices of settings. I am taking very good care of my machines, following manufacturer specifications, and hope to have them for a long time. My friends just bought Kenmore (made by LG) and is waiting for parts…and waiting…and waiting.

    Woody really does know what he is talking about. Good luck!

  272. QueenK Says:

    Woody and all others; thank you!

    This has been an extremely helpful website. I have a question regarding the Cabrio. There seemed to be a lot of “hype” about this no agitator top loader and how it does not use a lot of water. I don’t know if this post included information on this machine and I somehow missed it but I would really like to know.

  273. Woody Says:

    The newest version of the “Cabrio” is just being released. We trained on it a few weeks ago. At $599 it is a consideration if you want a top loader. No one is really going to know what the track record is going to be on it for a few years. The current Cabrio’s I see are $800 or $900. I can by a nice Bosch or other fine front loader on sale for that.

  274. Amanda Says:

    Woody…I am wondering about the life expectancy of the Bosch. I mean, in reality, how long should consumers EXPECT their washer to last. I realize that you must factor in how much it is used, so lets go by young families with children who probably wash the most a week. (we are a family of 4) Obviously, the days of buying appliances as an investment for your family for 20+ years are gone!

  275. QueenK Says:

    To Woody:

    I reallly want the front loader washer and dryer. Several years ago a representative a Lowe’s talked to us about the Bosch. However, when we went looking a few years ago the Cabrio was getting a lot of attention.

    This time around I want to step up from the top loader washer and I will certainly take a look at the Bosch – thanks again.

    My only concern is that an earlier post indicated you have to wash a half load or it will not work correctly. Sometimes, there may be that one piece that needs a delicate wash and is a certain color….not sure what I would do about that….

  276. Woody Says:

    As far as the small load issue that is something Nancy is having. I don’t have that problem and I am actually working on finding a solution for Nancy’s problem.

    Life expectancy for a Bosch is estimated at 20 years in “normal” household use. But in reality none of us really know because the machines haven’t been produced in their current state for 20 years. As you mentioned there are are a lot of factors that lengthen or shorten the life of these machines. One of those is simply the cost of replacement parts. Many manufactures are not sypathetic about that. GE is one of the worst! Whirlpool has been increasing parts prices dramatically since they aquired Maytag. A few of the factory service reps are trying to get the people who price the parts to take a closer look at what they are doing because owners are tossing machines that could be repaired otherwise, and they are NOT buying Whirlpool because of it. People talk badly about the Maytag Neptunes but there are plenty of them still running well that are 12 years old ( They were 1st marketed 12 years ago.) A lot of those part prices are getting out of hand though.

    It’s a gamble and we can only use our best judgement and the experience of others to help us decide. And then just when we know what we are doing things change! I know I put my own reputation on the line even suggesting any certain brand. But until I find something better I’ll stick by the experience of my customers and my family.

  277. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hi QueenK

    I am the one who stated I cant wash a small load… I have the Bosch 6450. And you cant wash a small load with them, I have to throw in either white towels or dark towels depending on the color of the load, I have gotten use to it, but miss only being able to wash 2 or 3 things… other than that, I love the machines !!! I think I made the right choice in getting the Bosch and I do take precaution for not getting mold. I truly believe Woody knows what he is talking about and trust his opinions. He has no reason to steer us to buy Bosch, he doesn’t own the company ( hmmmm, we don’t know that for sure LOL ) :)

  278. Nancy Mc Says:


    We must have been writing at the same time, I sure wish you could come up with a solution for me… do I need to make a service call ? :) well, that is after you figure out what the problem is and I can tell my trusty repairman how to fix it :) You know, just like going to the Dr and having to tell them what you want done ( my Dr’s hate me ) I google everything and self diagnosis

  279. Nancy Mc Says:

    By the way Woody, where have you hidden your sense of humor lately ? You have been so serious. I am still looking for a job UGH I need something close to Draper, dont want to have to drive to far in the snow :)

  280. QueenK Says:

    To Nancy and Woody

    Thank you both so much.

    Hi Nancy. I did think of throwing something extra in with the few pieces…good idea. There is one thing I definitely know about technology….its not perfect. Woody’s machine doesn’t have this problem but yours do — so it may be some little “quirk” :0)

    I will definitely do some research on the Bosch and honesty don’t know if I would have remembered this machine. So again, Woody thanks for sticking by your decision. I just hope I can find the model I decide on. I am going to google the 6450 since I couldn’t find it using Lowe’s search option.

    I also want to be able to fit a king size comforter into these machine. I figured if I buy the largest one it will fit — lol.

    Woody are there any other models than the 6450 that are excellent — just in case I can’t find this one?

  281. QueenK Says:

    Oops forgot to ask if it would be best to have Lowe’s or whomever I purchase the machine from to install it. My husband is very good with this type of handiwork — will he be able to install it…

  282. Nancy Mc Says:


    I don’t think Lowe’s or Sears sell the model 6450, I had googled it too and found a local appliance store that sold them. Good luck..

  283. Woody Says:

    Just get one that fits your needs. The tubs are all the same size. The 6450 was being promoted when Nancy bought hers. It had an outstanding rebate that’s now gone :(

    If you get a matching dryer though, get one with the mist care feature and that will help you pick the washer because you will want it to match.

    Good luck.
    (If you can, give the little guy in your area the business)

  284. QueenK Says:

    Thanks Nancy!

  285. QueenK Says:

    Thanks Woody! I will certainly try to buy local. We have very limited stores when it come to appliances other than furniture stores- no super walmart yet :0) We usually travel 60-75 miles to get to Lowes—I will see how it goes.

    Thanks again!

  286. QueenK Says:

    I have taken a look at Bosch official website and compared these two models…

    WFVC5440UC has delicate cycle for hand wash items; jean cycle; and aqua stop and WFVC6450UC has a sanitize drum option, aqua shield and cleans aggressively with cold water.

    ummm… I like options on both lol —- any suggesions or input on how important these few different options are.

  287. Nancy Mc Says:


    I keep posting a statement but it doesnt show up, so this is a test

  288. Nancy Mc Says:

    I am going to try this again, I just looked at my Bosch 6450 washer and here are my specialty cycles:
    Quick Full Quick Light
    Wool/Hand Wash Drum Sanitize
    XXTra Sanitary Cold Intensive
    Baby Care Comforter

  289. Nancy Mc Says:

    I have 8 specialty cycles, I had put spaces in between them but when it posted it jumbled them all together

  290. Nancy Mc Says:

    here they are again Quick Full…..Quick Light….Wool/Handwash…Drum Sanitize…. XXTra Sanitary…. Cold Intensive….Baby Care… Comforter

  291. QueenK Says:

    Thanks again Nancy—all of this is good as I begin my research….much appreciative! I think I will really like the comforter setting — I don’t want to go to the laundromat to wash my comforter — I want something to handle all of my needs lol!

  292. Nancy Mc Says:

    Your are welcome Queenie,

    Here is an idea… google the owners manuals on the models you are considering and it will give you all the settings and how to use them..

  293. Sherry Says:

    I have a five year old Maytag Neptune Washer that has always been fine. A few days ago a nickle made it throug to the pump which my husband was able to fix, however, when behind the washer, he found about a 9″ crack in the plastic outer tub. We had noticed some moisture on the floor but thought it was condensation from other things. Has anyone ever seen a successful repair of a crack in the tub? If yes, what was used? I did see some posts where people have used some products to patch the crack but wanted more opinions. I am also curious why this would crack.

    I know the replacement tub is nearly $500 and I was quoted 4-6 hours to fix so this would nearly pay for the washer again. Since the washer has worked fine for five years, I hate to toss it out.

  294. Woody Says:

    If the product is the age you say it is then call Maytag at 866)616-2601. Explain the problem to them and ask if they would consider giving you a parts concession for the tub. It comes with the rear bearing and should be a 1.5 – 3 hr job depending on the location of the machine (working area) and the talent of the technician.

    As far as patching it goes it depends on where the crack is and how large it is. You could try JB Weld which you can find at any automotive store. Some of the other readers on this post may have some favorites.

    Good luck

  295. Pauline M Says:

    I’m about to purchase washer/dryer in the next few weeks, and not sure what brand are more efficent and is durable.

    there are the three top brand
    kenmore, lg and ge

    I hoping that someone can make some suggestion on one if not all of the above brand on which is better more efficent and give more for the money


  296. Woody Says:

    Pauline M : The answer to your question is “none of the above”.

    What is a Kenmore? It could be a Whirlpool, LG, or even a Samsung depending on model. GE is a Frigidaire. (See “Why Kenmore front load washer fail”, link is at the top of this Forum). The reason those are the top three is because that is what people buy the most.

    Read these posts for other options.

    Good Luck

  297. Susan C Says:


    You seem to be “the man,” so I have a couple questions. I am researching front loaders, for their many advantages, and looking to replace my 21-yr-old Kenmore w/d BEFORE they go out. So far, only occasional extra drying is needed for heavier loads. I’ve been really fortunate.

    I had been leaning toward LG, but now I am questioning everything I thought I had decided. Hadn’t considered Bosch because I thought that the name equaled More Money. ??? Been watching Craigslist for pros and cons, but most everything there has been blasted here…which might be why those are being sold! Any suggestions to look into?

    My townhome has laundry hookups upstairs, and I have seen posts that suggest that FL’s aren’t good for upstairs? Opinion? Also, I didn’t know that FL’s required specific detergents…why? I have generally gotten away from most commercial detergents, in favor of more natural, or even organic, laundry cleaners…any problems there? Some people have told me that FL’s just aren’t worth the expense or the repair costs…I’m wondering how many problems are just “user error”? Leaking and smell seem to be big issues.

    I’ll ask more as I think of it…thanks,
    Susan C

  298. Woody Says:

    Ahhh the internet. Who are you going to believe. Might as well be religion. Did you know Bosch has an Alergy Cycle? Did you know they are built in the USA?

    Frankly I or anyone could BLAST anything on the internet, even one’s integrity. As I have said earlier I only have my own experience to draw from. Right now Bosch is the one, but things change fast and so could that opinion. Bosch does well now with vibration (nobodys perfect)with the new Vision product. Great shock system.

    Ever used bubble bath? What happens when you agitate the water? BUBBLES, lots and lots of BUBBLES. HE detergents do not suds up like traditional detergents. Dishwasher detergents are similair.

    Most of your other questions have been addressed in earlier posts. If the natural methods you are using clean you clothes in a top loader they will certainly do so in a front loader.

  299. Susan C Says:

    To Woody, I already spent hours pouring over all the previous comments; they are what prompted some of my questions and concerns, rather than finding answers. It is kind and generous of you to take the time to share your long-earned expertise with the rest of us. From your responses to others, I didn’t expect such a generic and evasive response from you. I’m sorry I bothered you.

  300. Woody Says:

    Susan C:

    I re-read what you wrote and and asked.

    I then re-read what I posted. It seems I responded to every question, or every question is covered in the posts. What did I miss?

    You apparently read into this a whole lot more than what I wrote. I believed that the questions you asked were addressed. Abraham Lincoln said “With all the stress I am under both night and day if I did not laugh I would surely die”. I am going to take a bubble bath.

  301. mab Says:

    Woody, and the gang,

    I have just spent over and hour reading all of your comments, and I wish I could drive right to Woody’s shop and take him with me to get my new washer and dryer.

    I did call my husband and told him I am very sure what machine I am going to replace my dead Whirlpool washing machine with. The information that was best for me to hear included the energy,

    Now I am on my way to research where to find the best deal. Wish I would’ve got on the rebate earlier, as I knew it was trying to die
    a few months ago.

    I really think Woody should put up his own web sight for Q & A.
    You are a wealth of information, and Bless you for being willing to share your knowledge.

  302. Woody Says:

    Speaking of knowledge. Just found out yesterday BOSCH will have a rebate on laundry beginning in September. If you can wait for labor day there will be LOTS of sales on everything. Good Luck

  303. QueenK Says:

    To Woody – Rebate:

    Thank you for the tip!! I have looked my eyes out (almost lol) for the post for the best places to buy BOSCH so the buyer will qualify for the rebate. I do “think” I recall if I bought it from LOWES there will be no rebate???

    I searched for dealers near me from Bosch’s site and came up with a couple of small places 30 miles or so — and Sears and Lowe’s in Franklin, VA.

    I am definitely waiting until Labor Day – thanks again!

  304. QueenK Says:

    I found it! “One thing to keep in mind though, the Bosch rebates are NOT GOOD at SEARS and LOWES.” —-

    so I can only hope I can find it a small appliance store — is there anyway to know for sure I will qualify if we purchase from a small store; I could really use the savings off but don’t want to order from a store so small — they over charge me lol

    One other question — I looked at machines at Lowes 500 series (of course they can’t get me the 6450; their book jumped to the 800 series)… The BOSCH dryer in Lowes said “steam” is that the same as mist care in this particular machine. I liked the WFVC5440UC (not in the store either, but online; they had the 5000) and WTVC5330US.

    I will not be buying from LOWES since no rebate, but that was the only place I knew to go look.

  305. Lori Says:

    Hi Queen K!

    I bought a Bosch 800 series from Grants Appliances in the Chicagoland area. Don’t know where you live, but I got a great deal, rebates, etc. I love my machines. Good luck!


    P.S. Hi Nancy and Woody!

  306. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hi Queenie,

    I bought mine from a small dealer, got a great deal and it had a rebate, plus my gas and electric had rebates too. Sometimes the small dealers you can negotiate the price down

    I googled Bosch appliance dealers in your area and came up with this

    Shawel’s Tv & Appliance Company…9720 Warwick Blvd, Newport, News, VA 23601…..757 599-4411

  307. Woody Says:

    Lori, Hi back to you. Very glad to hear you are enjoying the product. My batting average making girls happy isn’t always where I want it to be. Glad this was a home run for you.

    Queen, GOOD REMINDER, the rebates are not good at LOWES or SEARS. LOWES and SEARS negotiate the rebates out of the products for a lower cost to them. Little dealers nowadays are sometimes what we once called BIG dealers. But with national chains and what are called BOX stores these little dealers are so big. But they have a personality.

    Some of the little dealers are members of “buying groups” which give them purchasing power that is very great. One of those groups is BRAND SOURCE. You can look them up and then find a BRAND SOURCE dealer in your area, and along with checking the manufacture site you should be able to find a “small” dealer who is competitive with the big boys.

  308. QueenK Says:

    Hi to Lori, Nancy Mc, and Woody!

    Thank you all so much. I am in North Carolina—1 hour from many places like Virigina–but I will do what I must lol!!

    Thanks to all for the comments. Woody thank you so much; this clears my mind with smaller dealers. Nancy, I was wondering about negotiation—and Lori, I will definitely check out the 800 series!

    Again, thanks.

  309. Woody Says:

    That is interesting. The Bosch laundry is manufactured in New Bern North Carolina !

  310. QueenK Says:

    lol – 2 hours from New Bern! and Raleigh!

  311. angie Says:

    Hi Woody,
    I spent hours reading this blog and sharing it with my husband. We went by Sears today to look at the Bosch 500 series and was just wondering if you happen to have any direction with sellers in Southern California? You had also mentioned that there was a sale going on in the month of September, but I have not been able to locate any info.

    We are both educators, and trying to be mindful of cost and quality, especially in this dreadful time for California.

    Just like many others, the Sears salespeople continued to direct us to Kenmore and Samsung ( of which, I think Samsung is better). I would love to make the investment into the 800 series if there is a good deal out there…Sears informs me that Bosch is phasing out the 800 series. Are they making this stuff up…they were so pushy, I did not trust them much.
    You have been an angel to many here…and the spirit of gratefulness and kindness seems to have been poured out by others as well. Thank you for paying it forward in your ways.

  312. John MacKenzie Says:

    Hi Woody,

    So Based on what i have read here and elsewhere i’ve narrowed it down to bosch, LG or samsung (with perhaps maytag if you think they have a decent prodcut since i can get employee/F&F pricing on maytag/whirlpool stuff).

    I was doing a comparison on sears website of the BOSCH products and notice that there is NO delay start timer? Is this correct or is this just incorrect product info on their site?

    also it seems to me like the WFVC6450UC is better than the 8440 but harder to find, do you know why that is?

  313. Woody Says:

    Make sure you have Samsung service in your area and the people who service the product LIKES the product. We are lacking in our area for service. Their web site makes it difficult to find out. Same for LG about the servicer who LIKES.

    I am aware of the VIP program Whirlpool has but most of the products cost more than if I just look for them on sale. Today I found a laundry set (Thin Twin) for $50 less than the VIP program offered it for.

    Maytag is just a name. There are not unique products they ever manufactured that are still available now Whirlpool owns them.

    The 6450 is reserved for buying groups and independent dealers. That is why you can’t find it as easily like at SEARS or LOWES. There are rebates coming in September. Those REBATES are NOT good at Sears and Lowes. Hope that answers your question.

  314. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hey Gang !!!!

    Woody, Angie asked the question if Bosch was phasing out the 800 series, is that true ? Just curious.

    I got mine at a small dealer, but it was in the scratch and dent section, small scratch on top of washer, no big deal to me, the movers probably would have done that much. :) I just thought I would throw that out there to those who haven’t thought of the scratch and dent or to even ask the appliance store if they have any ( I had to ask, because they want to push what they get the biggest kick back on :) )

    I am still looking for a job, Woody, do you need help ? LOL

  315. John MacKenzie Says:

    Hi Woody,

    thanks. I am in Toronto and another poster mentioned Samsung is pretty well serviced here but I will do as you suggest and call to see what they like, thats a good idea. Do these rebates you talk about apply to Canada/Canadian bought appliances as well?



  316. Keith C (The Canuck) Says:

    Hi John,

    I bought the Samsung 339 Washer and Dryer set and so far so good. Those models are avail. up here in Canada anyway.

    The Washer Vibration Technology is working excellant and the unit washes most tough stains out. Some stains that the kids get on them need some extra care but i think any front load needs the extra help with stains. Tons of settings should you need them.

    The dryer runs smooth and is very effective using the sensor dry. The steam feature is a nice touch but honetly we haven’t used it much. Both units run very quiet compared to my old Fridgedaire Washer and Dryer stacked pair.

    Good Luck with your Laundry hunting!!

  317. Woody Says:

    I posted a response to you that was lenghty. I did not post for some reason.

    800 series ..still is and still will be available. Bosch has three “series” in all their products, 300 500 & 800 series. That will not change until they revampt the entire line of appliance offerings. Not likely to see that change. Sears is blowing smoke. Samsung is building their upper end laundry now. Was Whirlpool, then LG and now Samsung. Who’s next?

    Delay wash is on MANY models. Sorry, don’t know any Scal dealers. There is one in Sacramento, RC Willey. Look on the Bosch web site using your zip code. You can also check with “Brand Source” web site as their dealers can purchase Bosch through them.

  318. Repair Tech Says:

    As a appliance tech, I can tell you that 70% of the issues I just read had to do with balance issues and not the product. Most likely, the front load washer was not installed properly. It was most likely installed by a chain store or a customer, and the majority of both do not know how to do this correctly. My suggestion is to find an independent dealer that also services what they sell. They know what they are doing, and if they are part of a buying group (most are), their prices will be the same as the chain store. Also, I would stay away from LG appliances. Fewer and fewer techs are servicing them because LG will not sell their parts to them at dealer prices like all the other manufactures do. Techs do not like this, so they are basically refusing to service them.

  319. Woody Says:

    Repair Tech: Excellent comments.
    I agree with most of what you posted. Your comments about problems posted here are 70% installation related though I don’t agree with.
    Manufacture statistics are 30% of warranty calls are installation related, 20% to repair damage, 25% to correct a defect in the product and 25% to instruct the customer on useage. Many of the concerns here are about mold and odor which is not installation related very often. Usually it is more customer education and useage. We get these statistic every month from most of the companies we are authorized to do service for. They are spending a lot of money on calls for things other than product defects.

    The LG issue is regional. We have many service companies in our area doing LG. It depends on how much product is in your area. Authorized service companies get 2nd Air on their parts. My understanding though is LG does sell to independents. They tried the normal channels first but they were having growing pains (still are)in many area. But I agree that many service techs prefer to not do LG if they have already had a bad experience with them. Regardless of brand consumers should always check out who services the products in their area BEFORE they buy.

    What’s your take on Samsung in your area?

  320. QueenK Says:

    HI all! I am still shopping….think I must be going nuts because I actually looked really hard at one website that sold appliances!ONLINE! Have anyone heard of this company???


    lowes actually had a rebate sign in the store for the Bosch–I don’t trust that! I’d just rather wait until labor day — think they are doing 10% off…

    My small local appliance store is raving about the frigidaire…..swears she sells them like crazy and they service those….any suggestions??? (I still like Bosch just afraid I may not get anyone to work on them)

    — Woody do you know if the factory in New Bern, NC work on the machines?? The places on Bosch service locator only pull up little places around here that may not exist anymore :0/
    I am 1 hour from Greenville, Rocky Mount, North Carolina …

  321. Margo Says:

    Just wanted to say a big thank you to Woody and the rest of you for all the interesting and informative commentary on the washing machines! I’m still researching and it’s making me nuts, but I’m leaning toward the Bosch. A local place has the Vision 300 series for $699. I discovered there are multiple “versions” of the 300. One place has a 3300 model and the other place has a 4400. I’m guessing the 4400 might be newer?

    I wanted to share a resource that my mother sent me that helps figure out which company manufactured various Kenmore appliances, based on some codes. That might help some other folks who are shopping and considering Sears (despite Woody’s anti-Sears comments! LOL!). Hope it helps somebody in their decision making process…


    Happy shopping!

  322. Gladys Munce Says:

    I have started money making blogs recently. I got contents from various sources and updated daily. And also, i joined affiliate programs with money making websites. So i got some decent revenue every month. I hope this help fellow readers. Sorry for my bad english.

  323. kassie Says:

    Hi Nancy, how’s your job hunting going? Hope everything is well?
    Hi Woody, if you don’t mind answering a question for me. I still love my bosch wfvc544. In the beginning, I can’t hear anything at all from the washer during the spin cycle. The washer is located in the laundry room off a hallway around the big den. In the last few washes I found myself hearing the spin cycle louder than before. This is with three young boys screaming and shouting most of the time. I went through the manual, read about the leveling the machine. Unfortunately I was not there personally when the washer was installed by the movers. If I manually shake the washer, if does not move, seems very steady to me. The foot at the bottom of the washer are elevated to about 3/4 inch off the floor. could there be any other reason why there is an increase in the vibration noice?
    Thank you Woody in advance. I reread the entire blog to make sure this question was not asked. It can be a bit annoying when people ask the same question over and over again…… But your patience in repeating the same answer puts you at a higher level.

  324. NOVA Weddings Says:

    Tremendous blog. Can not wait to discover just what you think of next!

  325. Joelle Says:

    Don’t buy a Kenmore HE!!! I purchased one less than a year ago and already I’m having problems with it not draining and spining properly.

  326. Woody Says:

    kassie : The leveling legs should be in as far as they go inside the cabinet as possible and then there is a “lock” washer that needs to be tight against the cabinet. If this noise only happens once in a while it could just be an off balance load. The machine will try repeatedly to balance it by stopping and tumbling the clothes and then trying again. So if the noise is infrequent most likely this is what you are experiencing.

    Joelle: Have you tried cleaning out the pump. There is access on the washer from the front. Your use and care guide should show you this. Try that before calling for any service.

  327. Männerunterwäsche Says:

    Hi guys… thank you, but why the hell does this underwear seem to be green??

  328. Anie Says:

    Hi Everyone,
    Thank you to all who have contributed so much to this blog. Woody, you are the shepherd!! Thank you for leading and ushering:)

    I have a huge favor. An appliance store in my local area had the Bosch 800 series. As per research and Woody’s detailed info, and shrugging away from Sears, my husband and I are proud owners of Bosch twins:) For the rest of the year, we shall eat beans and toast, but heck, WE WILL HAVE CLEAN CLOTHES!!!

    They have said to me that if I find the Bosch at a lower price ANYWHERE, online, etc ( just not second hand or Craigslist), they will guarantee the price match and refund me the difference. So, if I may, I am asking if anyone has ANY info out there for good prices on the Bosch Washer and Bosch Dryer.
    BOSCH WFVC8440UC Vision 800 Washer
    BOSCH WTVC8530UC Vision 800 Dryer
    I have 60 days for the price match from 8/20/10, and I know that there are lots of sales and stuff going around. Please help!! I would be so very grateful!!

    Also, I asked about a September rebate going on in California, and the rep was not clear on it. Any news on those rebates?

    Thank you for your time and consideration. Thank you for helping us make a great decision!!


  329. Angie Says:

    Sorry. Anie is Angie. It’s late, and clearly I have Bosch on my mind! We get ours in a day! Woo hooo!!

  330. Woody Says:

    According to my sources the September laundry rebate on Bosch appliances is still planned, however they won’t announce it until Sept 1st because othewise people stop buying! (Little bit different than the government does it.)

    Labor Day will be the BIG promotional for appliances. We have a local store in our area that will be promoting Bosch but it will be the 6450 and 6330 dryer. One good one to watch for might be Lowes. Do they carry those models in your area. They will sometimes do a 10-20% off Energy Star rated appliances on special days. The other promotion that comes around is free pedestals or buy one get one free. That is a $200+ savings. Keep in touch after Labor Day and let us know how you did. The 800′s are pretty awsome. You might have to spend a little time figuring out everything they can do. They do everything but load and unload themselves (ok almost everything).

  331. kiwi Says:

    I too am thrown back into the demand of shopping for a new washer after only 3 1/2 years of owning a Whirlpool Cabrio. I’m honesty shocked that there has not been a required recall or class action lawsuit against these manuafactures for putting out such poor quality. LEMONS!!! Ok, so maybe it’s unrealistic to expect a new appliance to last as long as my old Kenmore of 17 plus years, but 3 1/2 years…really? On a brighter note…

    “Thank you” to all the posts, especially Woody. I started to be concerned there were no longer quality products to choose from and that all had given over to the desire of marketshare prefering quantity over quality…desiring the high turn over? Hoping we’ll be back for another set in 5 years?? really? They surely know we won’t be back if our last experience was disappointing…potentially losing us over to trying new brands..I would have never considered Bosch..the name was unknown to me…Whirlpool, Kenmore…besides Maytag, were the names I trusted. It’s unfortunate. I did purchase an LG refrigerator 4 years ago, the salesman couldn’t say enough good things about it(based on what I’ve read on this site, sounds like there was an incentive program going on at the time I purchased…my salesman got a nice little bonus while I have not been satisfied with the frig and it’s only 4 years old. My Whirlpool Frig in the garage is 17 years old and still running great compared to the newer LG. These companies need to consider the power of the internet aiding us to become a more educated consumer. After reading other sites I almost gave up on the idea of finding a product that coud even last 5 years and was really getting discouraged because “every” product seemed to have bad reviews on-line and I was frustrated with not knowing which reviews could really be trusted. Thanks to everyones questions, comments, feedback and of course Woody’s professional knowledge, experience and opinion….I plan to be a proud owner of a Bosch 6450 or 800 series this Labor Day weekend. I still have research to do as far as finding where to purchase the brand and finding a local company to service. But I am at least more confident in my purchase and am willing to invest in a brand that I would have never considered…and Thank God! Hopefully there’s a manufacturer that will hear our concerns and not yield to the temptation of market share and go back to producing quality appliances. Woody…an earlier posting suggested you start your own site for appliance repair recommendations and I agree whole heartedly you should consider it.

  332. Woody Says:

    Gee thanks. Here’s hoping in 5 years you all won’t hate me. In the meantime I thought I would run for President. The two most popular brands there seem to not be lasting too long and costing too much to own also.

  333. hannahH Says:

    Hi Everyone – does anyone ever use Speed Queen anymore? My sister was a sales rep and gave me her “old” set – they were 10+ years old and I just loved them. Had to leave when we moved – now I have an ancient Maytag Neptune that I just hate. The washer is so loud – like an airplane taking off – and the dryer leaves me with such wrinkled clothes. Am looking at options and love the info on this forum!

  334. Woody Says:

    hannahH: Speed Queen is still out there. A few dealers sell them and in our area they are handled by a distributor who sets up dealers. They would be considered a “profit” line to most dealers who carry them because they are usually not associated with Sears, Lowes and other big box stores, but that could change.

    Your Neptune has bad center bearings caused by using too much of the wrong types of detergents….sorry.

  335. hannahH Says:

    yes woody – i bet you’re right. When we moved in it already had lots of mold but not the loud noise in the spin cycle. I always kept the door open but, being the first front end loader I’ve had, I know I probably used too much detergent and accidentally the wrong detergent a few months ago.
    We are looking at the Bosch 6450 and the 6330 and will hopefully purchase when the rebates come out.
    Do you think it’s safe to use my old Neptune for another week? I’d hate to have it flood – it’s on first floor -above a finished basement.
    thanks Nancy for your comments – really helpful!

  336. Woody Says:

    Should not be a problem to continue using it. The nice thing about the noisy washer is you know exactly whent the cylce is finished..lol

  337. Sceptic Says:

    Joan Dalton is a schill for Sears. Everything she types is positive for Kenmore, and the Whirlpool products that Kenmore makes. Example: “I have a mold sensitivity and have had no problem with my HeWhirlpool.”

    Sometimes Joan has typed negative comments about competition to Sears, ex: “thank you for the heads up on GE. I will be sure to stay away from them.”

    Please see that she even writes her posts like tag lines, just like a commercial. Example “We really love our machine. I am so happy that we chose it.” and “As I mentioned before, we have an older Whirlpool Duet and never had a problem.”

    Joan’s spelling and grammar are almost perfect. Who in the real fricken world types so perfectly??? Unless they are trying to SELL you something?

    Sears has many employees, just like “JOAN DALTON” who are trained in creative writting and advertising to steer you into buying their products. JOAN’s probably not even her real name. I suspect she is a liar and a schill and a part of the greedy marketing campaign of Sears.

  338. Lori Says:

    Dear Sceptic:
    Did you mean sceptic or skeptic? Your post was unkind, to say the least.

    I have an English degree and a masters degree in clinical psychology. I was an editor for national magazines for several years. Occasionally, on this blog, you will find that I abbreviate and/or am a terrible typist. I have RA so my fingers don’t always cooperate. Perhaps Joan is just good at grammar and likes her machines. Never assume the worst about anyone. Most of the people on this blog have been intelligent and kind.

    Thank you for your opinion. You are entitled to it. But please remember to couch your words and thoughts in kindness. Wouldn’t you want to be given the benefit of the doubt?

  339. Keith C Says:

    Well said Lori. I personally haven’t contributed much to the blog but I get the emails of others posting comments.

    It drives me nuts when people get on these faceless blog sites and rip into other people with words or comments that they would most likely never use or say when face to face with a live person.

    The way I see it if you don’t like someones comments keep it to yourself!! Your not their friend, you don’t know them or their situation or if in “FACT” they are who they say they are or what they represent.

    I have enjoyed my Samsung machines very much, I don’t work for Samsung but based on my experience over the past few months i think their great. People can take that for what it’s worth.

  340. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hey Gang !!!!

    Well, I have had my Bosch 6450 for 4 months now, and I still love them !!! Just like anything else, you have to learn how to use them properly. I just discovered it has a delay wash LOL The hardest thing for me to learn was NOT USE SO MUCH DETERGENT.. It is hard only putting in 1&1/2 Tablespoons of detergent, but I want clean clothes and no mold.
    I am still looking for a job, had an interview yesterday will know today but have to drive 20 miles..UGH… cant even imagine in the snow…
    Angie congrats on the Twins LOL you will be pleased you bought them

  341. Nancy Mc Says:

    Keith and Lori,

    I agree with you totally on the skeptics posting. If you look at my comments I sound like a commercial for Bosch LOL If only I was getting paid by them then I wouldn’t be looking for a job :) We are just people with the same thing in common, wanting to find the right machines for the best price and doing our research. I too had a whirlpool duet and had no problems, but wanted something different when we moved. So skeptic, since I made that comment does that mean that I work for Sears ?

  342. Lori Says:

    Hi Nancy,

    Nahh. But we know you lead a double life:):). Hope you are well. Good luck on the job hunt. It’s tough out there!


  343. Nancy Mc Says:

    Thanks Lori,
    It is tough out there, but I am being picky. I don’t want to work evenings or weekends so that leaves out retail and I had only been looking 10 miles from home, but this opportunity came up and the price was right so may drive the 20 miles if offered the job :) The good news is, when I go to work I have my Bosch to get my clothes clean LOL LOL Lets see, if Bosch were paying me I would be rich by now :) hmmmm, maybe I should contact them

  344. Woody Says:

    Sceptic is just having a bad day. Hope (he/she) gets feeling better. I know people who like their Whirlpool branded front loaders. I know some who don’t like them also. But it is true that Whirlpool has a team who monitors the internet for their name to come up so they can be proactive in helping consumers and protecting their name from the faceless, nameless comments on the internet. I know because their “executive” office has sometimes called us to help when someone special is blasting their name or the name of one of their brands like Maytag on twitter, facebook, etc.

    I became involved in these posts because of the title “The Top 3 Washers and Dryers as Rated by Consumers”. Being in the business I was curious as to the content. This is almost like the football and basketball polls that are ranked by the media, sportscasters and coaches. WHO KNEW Boise would go undefeated? WHO KNEW Utah would bust the BCS? These teams weren’t even being considered because they don’t get enough votes because of small TV markets and now are leaving their conferences to greener pastures (money).

    I used to type these up and put them on the word processor for corrections before sending them. Once I knew I was amongst friends I backed off from that step. And Woody isn’t my real name, sorry. And I don’t get paid to write these, if fact I don’t get paid when I write these because I am not working when I do write them and in fact am losing income so bye for now!

  345. Nancy Mc Says:


    I feel like I am a priest and you just confessed LOL You will always be Woody to us, no matter your true name !! I know I appreciate your time and experience. With you being in the repair business I feel you are a tremendous help to all of us looking for an honest opinion. I know when I was looking for my set, I actually called repair men in my area, not just one, I called several and the advice was the same, Bosch. They didn’t know me from Adam, they just gave their opinion. Really Woody, we do need you.

  346. Woody Says:

    Nancy….. you are very kind. I am pleased you and others are enjoying your products.

    I’m not going anywhere too soon. I have kids to feed.

  347. kassie Says:

    Hi nancy, hope you got the job.

    just like you, i found out about the extra sanitary cycle. Boy, did all the baby mess up come out clean!!!!! I think I will buy the boys some more clothes so that I can save them up and use the sanitary cycle every time. I feel like a shopper who found a great bargain every time i discover a new function from the washer. I am secretly wishing that my old dryer would die out soon so I can buy the steam dryer from bosch.

    Ditto to your comment in regards to woody. Most of us here appreciate the FREE and very informative advices that you provide us. My utmost sincere thanks to you woody.

  348. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hi Kassie,

    I didn’t hear anything about the job, I am so bummed, maybe tomorrow. I do however have an interview with the State on the 14th, so yea.
    Shopping, did you say shopping? Any reason to go shopping is great, then to get to wash them in your new washer is awesome. I know people think I am crazy just discovering different cycles on my washer, but it is just me and my husband so don’t do much laundry, and I get in a rut and only use the same cycle most of the time. :)

  349. Woody Says:

    OK…as promised….here are the details

    Vision Washer Description Rebate
    WFVC3300UC Bosch Vision 300 Series Washer $50
    WFVC4400UC Bosch Vision 300 Series DLX Washer $50
    WFVC5400UC Bosch Vision 500 Series Washer $100
    WFVC540SUC Bosch Vision 500 Series Washer Silver $100
    WFVC5440UC Bosch Vision 500 Series Washer w/AquaStop® $100
    Bosch Vision 500 Series Anthracite Washer
    w/AquaStop $100
    WFVC544CUC Bosch Vision 500 Series Sepia Washer $100
    Bosch Vision 500 Series DLX Washer
    w/AquaShield $100
    WFVC844PUC Bosch Vision 800 Series Washer Sky $100
    Terms and Limitations: 1. Original reward certificate and supporting documents
    (collectively “Claim”) must be mailed and postmarked by October 15, 2010. No late
    submissions will be accepted. Sponsor(s) is not responsible for claims lost,
    misdirected, mutilated, stolen, received late, or with postage due. Please keep copies
    of all materials submitted. Sponsor(s) reserves the right to request additional information
    or signed statements verifying identity and bona fide purchase of product.
    All information submitted with this claim becomes the property of Sponsor(s) and cannot be
    returned. 2. Please allow 8 to 10 weeks to receive your Bosch Visa Prepaid Card.
    3. Make a copy of all reward material submitted for your records. In the event of
    incomplete or illegible forms, claims submission will not be returned. 4. Offer good only on
    select Bosch Vision washers listed above. 5. Purchase, and full payment, must
    occur between September 1, 2010, and September 30, 2010; purchase outside these prameters
    is ineligible. Purchase date is determined by invoice. 6. Any misrepresentation
    or fraudulent information disqualifies reward claim, and may give rise to criminal
    or civil prosecution. 7. Offer is not valid in conjunction with any other offers.
    8. Sponsor(s) distributors, resellers and their employees, are ineligible.
    9. Limited to retail customers only, not open to builders or contractors. 10. Limited to
    one rebate per household . One limit per household not applicable in CT, RI or where
    prohibited by law. 11. Valid only for purchases by an end user customer within the
    50 United States and the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands. 18
    years or older only. 12. Reward form must include a valid, current, residential street address
    of the purchaser only. Visa prepaid card is not transferable. 13. If these terms and
    conditions are not met, at Sponsor’s discretion, Visa prepaid card will not be issued. Offer void
    where prohibited by law. FD number(s) must be provided. 14. In no event shall Sponsor(s)
    be liable for more than the amount of the stated reward; by submitting this reward form,
    you agree to this strict liability limitation. 15. Not eligible at Lowe’s, Sears, Best Buy and P.C.
    Richard & Son.

  350. Nikki Says:

    Woody, et al,

    Thank you for the plethora of information on washers and dryers in the market place. Our Kenmore 90 Series dryer of over 16 years just quit on us (or the heating function did) and we are in the market for a W/D set. Loved the pair and will miss them sorely (like autos, they just don’t make them like they used to…I think most products are made to be replaced more often these days!). We have two daughters active in sports and one with a uniform for her job so we do up 7-9 loads per week. Ugh!

    The husband and I have checked Sears and Lowes and even Costco; so many choices! When looking through reviews posted on various sites, it is hard to keep statistics lessons in mind, as even one bad review can scare a buyer off since products are so pricey these days and the economy here in Cali is not the best (written with a straight face). I have to remind myself not to be swayed by one or two negative postings as people are more wont to share the negative than the positive. I am sure Woody can attest to that. :)

    I am thrilled I stumbled upon these posts and it has been worth the hour of reading. We are off to look at the Bosch brand tomorrow and make up our minds if they will work for our family. Seems like most of the features listed are what we are looking for and that the negatives are outweighed by the positives. Plus, thanks to Woody’s tip I will hold off until Labor Day (what luck in timing that I read this today). So far I only remember seeing Bosch at Lowes, but we do have a smaller appliance place that sells that brand of dishwasher, so I will check them out to give back to the small guys.

    Thanks again for all who take the time to check back in as it really helps those of us just starting our shopping to make a decision. I also enjoy the personal touches and great sense of humor displayed by some of you. And BTW, I already pimped my laundry room (great, long L-shaped folding counters and a deep Corian sink and a window with a view of our gorgeous park) so I just need to find a great color to go along with the room. :)


  351. Nikki Says:

    Okay, the time stamps on these posts are so off! I look so industrious, as my last post was actually made in the future, since it is just now 12:52am on 8/31/10. And Woody must be somewhere else in the world other than the US of A because look at his time stamp! LOL. Nancy, since I seem to be blessed with magical powers of getting things done in the future; I foresee you will get your State job. :)

  352. Teddy Bonito Says:

    Hello I was digging for reliable information on supplies for grand format printers. Your blog was listed on Yahoo in this category, you have an interesting site.

  353. Nancy Mc Says:


    Since you can see in the future, me sitting at my desk at the State office, can you please please please give me some Power Ball numbers LOL LOL :) I could sure use it right now, I will even drive to Nevada to pick them up. That is one thing I miss about AZ, buying the lottery tickets, I didn’t do it very often, but when I wanted to I could.

    I am glad you are going to check out Bosch, I am very pleased with mine. I am so jealous you have a pimped out laundry room !!! Yes you do need a great pair to show off your pimped room. Keep us posted

  354. Nikki Says:

    Wow…see what happens when I break my rule about writing in public after 11am? It was actually 12:52am on 9/1/10! But the time stamp was still in the future so the job is still yours, Nancy! Shared all the info with my hubby and he jumped online and found that Abe’s of Maine carries the Bosch at reasonable prices and will ship for free and there is no tax. I do worry about scratches since the shipping involves getting from Maine to California! Our local places have the models for significantly higher prices though…what to do?

  355. Nikki Says:

    At this point I just have to laugh…apparently I need to avoid writing before 11am as well, post should have read ‘after 11pm’. :)

  356. Nancy Mc Says:


    Make sure that Abe’s of Maine gets the rebates !!! Some places don’t get them. I just checked the site out and noticed some of the washers don’t have the rebate with them, for instance, mine the 6450, according to Woody’s post it should have $100, but on Abe’s site it doesn’t. So, be careful of which one you are choosing. To me, as far as the shipping goes, I think it will probably be in the original box and it is a chance you take. I would call and talk to them and make sure you feel comfortable with them as a company and see what their policy’s are if it is damaged. My husband hooked ours up, so it is fairly easy to do, I do know with the Bosh, it had to have only Bosch parts to do the hook up just couldn’t run to Home Depot.

  357. Nikki Says:


    Thanks! All good things to consider. We will check on that one and make sure the fit is right. Did you say you can wash comforters in your washer? I would love to be able to do that and thought I remembered someone posting that they could. We have a Super Capacity set right now and even with that I can really only get smaller comforters in the washer due to the agitator blocking off a good fit for anything thicker. However, I do get a great amount of clothing in and am concerned about being able to get the same out of other units. Plus, my current dryer gets things dry in 40-50 minutes. I would love to match that time due to the number of loads we have to run per week to keep up with the girls’ habits!

  358. Nancy Mc Says:


    The 6450 has a comforter setting but I have never used it. I have found that at first I was trying to put too many clothes in the dryer and it was taking a long time to dry and clothes coming out wrinkled. Like anything, there will be trial and error. Hope this helps you, there are larger tubs out there with other brands, but is a bigger tub worth the chance of future repairs ?? Just some more food for thought, is your head exploding yet LOL ?

  359. Nikki Says:

    Wow, just chatted with a local appliance seller who is an authorized dealer for Bosch (and was a service repairman for 16+ years who loves Bosch and his family have them as well) and not only do they have the 6450; but I can get the $100 off Woody mentions above, but another $100 for the Cash for Appliances program and an extra $50 utility rebate (in California read PG&E). Not a bad deal at all!

    However, wait for it…this guy was so awesome and said that while he would LOVE to sell me a new unit, he had a tip for me on what to check out on our existing dryer (Kenmore 90 Series that has been so good to us) to see if that solves the ‘no heat but runs’ issue. The hubby is going to check it out after work. If that is the problem, this nice salesman said to come on in tonight and he has the part in stock for…here comes the almost priceless part…$10! People, there are some wonderful people in this world.

  360. Nancy Mc Says:


    Do you think it is Woody ? LOL LOL That is awesome, and YES, there are still some honest and nice people in the world. I am so happy for you. See if he will come down anymore on the price, it never hurts to ask :)

  361. Sidney Says:

    Hi Woody – wow! You are certainly a good sport to share and inform the way you do. I don’t know how you have the bandwidth to do it all, but lucky for us, you do.

    I will apologize in advance for asking a question that may be redundant on some level, but I think I read conflicting information regarding the Bosch 6450. After mounds and mounds (and mounds) of research, we like this option, but because the pair will be on the main living floor (and not the basement), we are concerned about water damage. The 6450 has Aqua Shield and not AquaStop, correct? And, if that is the case, will we be protected from potential leaks? Also, how difficult is it to install the AquaStop hose? Would this be in lieu of a braided hose (the one that connects to the water supply)?

    Sorry for the elongated e-mail, but with Labor Day here and the added rebates, I want to be sure I get this nailed down in the next few days.

    Thanks Woody! You da man!

  362. Woody Says:

    You can purchase Aqua Stop hoses separately but they are somewhat expensive so check the difference between the 6450 and the 800 series in your area if you really want them. The 800 series has both aqua shield and aqua stop. The hoses attach just like any other hose. Part # 646221 and #646220…. $44 each piece.

  363. Lori Says:

    Dear Niki:
    You CAN wash comforters in the Bosch! My 800 series does a beautiful job!


  364. Nikki Says:

    Thanks, Lori.

    Old dryer fix update: Hubby checked out the old dryer and the back panel is actually welded on, so if we choose to take a chance, we need a repair person to come out and get the back panel off. Strange that it wouldn’t be just something you unscrew. Hmmm…

  365. Sidney Says:

    To Woody:

    So – not to be a pest, but is adding the Aqua Stop hose after the fact, the same as purchasing the unit with the technology already included? Make sense??

    Thank you again for replying to my previous post… I’m still a bit confused about all of this.

  366. Woody Says:

    Sidney, yes. Same thing. The aqua stop hose simply screws onto the washer in place of a standard hose. It could be used on ANY brand washer or any model of washer that uses standard fill hoses.

    Nikki: A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. Many dryer repairs are accessed from the front, not the back. You can look up your model number of the dryer on the Sears web site and the parts break down will usually give you an idea of how to access the part you are looking for.

  367. Nancy Mc Says:

    Woody, seriously, what would we do without you ?!?!?!?!?

  368. Shelly Says:


    I appreciate all I have read on your expertise with front loaders. I am right now looking at buying a Maytag front loader washer and dryer. I know you recommend Bosch, but that is out of the question for me now. What do you know of the Maytag MHWE400WW series of front loader washers and MEDE400XW dryers. I am like “confused” with all the horror stories I have read on front loaders that I would like to know from someone in the “know” how to gage what is what. Would you recommend this model? If not, why not? I appreciate any information you can give me.

  369. Woody Says:

    From what I see online it does not cost much less than the Bosch. Maytag is a Whirlpool Corporation brand and would rank in my top 5 personal choices. There are several variations of the product with the Whirlpool, Maytag and Amana names on them. Basic differences are features and cosmetics.

    Most of the “horror” stories on the internet are people with too high of expectations for the products they purchased and lack of proper use. I don’t know if that helps or not for you.

    The moment of absolute certainty never arrives.

  370. John MacKenzie Says:


    Do you have any idea why Bosch (which are not cheap compared to some of the others we are comparing with) do NOT have delay start on the 300 or 500 series dryers? This seems a little poorly thought out?

  371. Shelly Says:

    Hey thanks Woody! It’s a pleasure talking with someone who knows what they are talking about. I hear you about the Bosch, but we have decided to go with the Maytag as we are getting a super deal on it at this time. It makes me less nervous to buy the model with your reply as it is a major purchase and I don’t want to buy into a manufacturer that has had known problems. Thanks again and have a blessed day! Shelly

  372. Woody Says:

    John: That is a question you would need to pose to the people at Bosch as I am not involved in the engineering and manufacture. But Bosch continues to be the leader in energy smart products.

    I don’t really care to use the word cheap. I prefer expensive and less expensive. But you don’t buy a Lexus for the price of a Chevrolet. People shop price unfortunately and forget what value is. The OLD Maytag company was never afraid to charge more and build a better product. They enjoyed a long lasting product with a long lasting reputation until they began to try to gain market share with price. In order to do so they had to lower the quality of the product. They paid a large price for that change and eventually the entire company ceased to exist.

    I have never used a delay feature on a product for a lot of reasons I won’t go into here. They are a gimick brought on by politicians and enviormentalists. Product performance is greatly reduced in dishwashers and washing machines when delay cycles are selected. In addtion they actually use MORE electricity, not less with most cycles.

  373. John MacKenzie Says:

    Hi Woody,

    as always your advice is really amazing and I appreciate it very much like the others on this forum.

    I really would like to know how delaying the start of your dryer or washer turning on would use (except for the amount of power for the time) more resources? Why would delaying the start of your wash or dry cause the machine to run longer? Since we pay higher rates of electricity here in Toronto During the day it would be really helpful to load up what I need and set the timer to start after 9pm when the rates go down?

    I am not talking about delaying certain cycles, just delay when the actual machines starts?


  374. Woody Says:

    Quickly if I can:
    In our area most people heat water with natural gas. When you use a delay cycle the machine (washer and dishwasher) fill with the immediate water available which is in the lines between the water heater and the appliance. Generally this is very cool water because it has been sitting during the “delay”.

    The washers and dishwashers now heat water (in order to get proper performance) with electricity to the prescribed temperature from a cool state thus using a more costly fuel than natural gas to heat the water. Depending the cycle this happens several times. When you use the products during more normal times say after you have just used the kitchen sink and then start the dishwasher the water is already hot at the source and thus requires less auxiliary heating of the water. In addition the product performs better both in the wash and dry cycles.

    Each area is different and so are the fuel sources so it will be different depending on where you live, the rates your utilities charge and the machines use of energy. But when you put the off peak rate against the on peak rate how much are you really saving in dollars and cents? My last calculation on a dishwasher using an electric water heater was less than half a penny a load using our rates. Am I going to sacrifice performance for a lousy 15 cents a month? When I factor in the natural gas water heater is actually costs MORE to use the delay wash. The heaters in the laundry equipment are larger and have to heat even more water. It’s splitting hairs just so we can say we are GREEN!

    Recently many states went phosphate free. Now no one’s dishwasher’s work well. Yet commercial applications were exempted from the ban. Have you ever thought how much detergent and phosphates a hotel or restaurant use compared to a normal household? It’s A POLITICAL JOKE! Energy standards on homes require insulation in ceilings and walls, special windows, etc. yet commercial buildings have gapping holes around overhead doors, entry doors and R11 insulation in the ceilings. Opps! Got to go now, just fell off my soapbox…

  375. Woody Says:

    Oh! And not to mention you are asleep when you washer finishes and the laundry sits in the washer wet and starts the mold process everyone is complaining about. And in the dryer you put “wet” clothes in there and let them sit for hours waiting for your off peak period till they stink and need to be rewashed afterwards?

    This dang soapbox keeps falling over. I think I broke it this time.

  376. Nancy Mc Says:

    Woody your head must explode from soooo much information LOL I am just glad you do have a big head because I am learning so much :) by the way, I have 2 State job interviews, the 14th and 15th, the one on the 15th is at the Prison again.. :) guess it is better to have interviews at the Prison as opposed to be in the Prison.

  377. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hope you didn’t break a hip LOL LOL, course if you did hurt something, you would be laid up and couldn’t work then you would have more time for all our questions or concerns. Instead of just washers and dryers you could open up the whole can of worms :)

  378. John MacKenzie Says:


    wow, that is very informative thanks for your detailed response! You make a LOT of good points. You really are a wealth of information. And what you wrote may pertain to a lot of situations.

    We dont run hot water very often anyway and always wash clothes on cold so our lines are pretty much the same all the time except in the morning when showering so that impact thankfully would not affect us much. And the time of use rates here are twice the cost at peak times as they are at low times.

    So yes it really does depend on your rates and where you are but I want the delay start also as a convenience feature as well. basically we would save over $34 a year by running the dryer in off times vs peak times. Would there be any issue with rust of clothes sat in a dryer for say 3-4 hours before they started to dry? That would of course make me think twice.

    I will give the wet clothes sitting around some thought, but I dont think that is much of an issue for us.

  379. Nancy Mc Says:


    I don’t know where your laundry room is in conjuntion to your bedroom, but mine is just steps away and even tho my Bosch 6450 is VERY quiet, I can still hear it. To me the $34 a year wouldn’t be worth the noise :) Good thinking John about the rust issue, interesting, I wonder what the Washer and Dryer Guru has to say about that

  380. John MacKenzie Says:

    Good point Nancy ours is down the hall through a door (and past an old foundation wall and around the corner so thankfully noise is not an issue for us even with are loud monster right now.

  381. Nancy Mc Says:

    I truly hope you can decided on what to buy. To me it was a BIG purchase and I wanted to make sure I got the BEST I could afford. That being said, everyone has their own priorities, I didn’t really care about all the bells and whistles, it is just me and my husband, so just clean clothes was my top concern. If I lived where the electric bill is so high I might have the same mind set as you. :)

  382. Woody Says:

    Rust would depend on the type and quality of the tub. Everything else I could add would depend on the time your peak and off peak start. Setting the washer cycle to start and end so you could put clothing in the dryer the next morning after you awake could be done if it is still off peak. Noise levels would be important to you also if you are going to run the machines while you sleep. In addition the Aqua stop features would give you peace of mind if the machines started leaking while you were snoozing.

  383. Nikki Says:

    Does anyone have feedback/opinions/facts on the Fisher Paykel Washer Model #WL42T26DW1 and Dryer Model #DG62T27DW2? I know that there a limited amount of service people who know how to work on them if needed; but anything on 1)reliability, 2) quality of washing (is it clean)/drying (clothes aren’t badly wrinkled when cycle complete), 3)noise-level, 4)ability to handle large loads, 5) Wash times? 6) Are clothes wrung out well when spin cycle over, 7) Dry time and are clothes really dry? and 8) Anything else?

    I had heard they are good quality machines, that they are fairly quiet, the washer will take about 55 min for a cycle on efficient and 40-50 min to dry. The sales person who was a repairman for years liked the set; but I know they are the only place in town that can service this type of w/d, so I know there is motive for sales pitch as well; but he was brutally honest about issues surrounding Maytag, Whirlpool Cabrios, etc. I swear I picked tile, tub, windows, etc. for our remodel faster than this decision is happening! They said we could return within 30 days at no charge if we didn’t like anything about the set.

    Still may go to the Bosch 6450; but I am so dang nervous about the front-load thing, but still almost got them and then $239 each for the two freaking pedestals! Sheesh! They are empty drawers already! I can’t get them without as I have a bad lower back and that would just kill me.

    Decision time is tomorrow, but it is between these two sets…not much out there on the Fisher Paykel that is easy to pick out as having merit one way or another. Any help out there is much appreciated. I re-read the thread and did a word search on this site and there were two negative comments (with not much detail) and that was a couple of years back. I didn’t want to bug you all if you had done this model to death. Anything on more recent purchases/stories on the Fisher Paykel model #s above?

  384. Nikki Says:

    And, Woody, thanks for the feedback earlier. My hubby did end up taking off the front and top pieces and looked for that dang fuse to no avail. Cleaned the heck out of the dryer underneath just in case, but still no heat. Returned the fuses since we couldn’t find that part. How weird. It was probably staring us in the eyeball; but no dice. Ah, well. Woody, if you have the energy after all your posts and feel like chiming in on my question in the post just above; I put a lot of stock in what you have to say (and I did try to do my homework in making sure you hadn’t touched on this brand before (Fisher Paykel). Thanks in advance! You should do free lance in a paper…Dispensing de Knowledge…

  385. Woody Says:

    Not an F&P fan for the reasons you mention. I don’t have any experience with F&P except that they don’t seem to be able to keep service agencies on board. We have been asked serveral times to represent the brand but they don’t seem to have the customer service.

    Bosch pedestals here are 50% off and sometimes free.

  386. Nikki Says:

    Woody, where is “here”? I think we would have walked out with the Bosch set had the pedestals been reasonable.

  387. Woody Says:

    Sounds like you already made the F&P decision already.

  388. Nancy Mc Says:

    Nikki if you cant find a reasonable amount on the Bosch pedestals, could your husband build you a platform?

  389. Nancy Mc Says:

    P.S. Nikki, if they were the ONLY repairmen in your area, maybe what Woody says is right, they cant get people to do their service. To me, that would be a BIG RED FLAG !!

  390. Nikki Says:

    We had held the F&P; but i told my husband that I really want the Bosch, but the pedestals put it above what we were willing to pay. Nancy, I thought of the hubby building something too, but want it to look more monochromatic and it would probably be quite the job to make a platform look really good to match.

    The more I thought about the sales guy saying he also loved Bosch; but then steering me to the F&P made me think why would someone on commission do that unless for some reason they got more commission on the other AND more service call potential out of it.

    Woody, you mentioned $50 per stand or even free “there”. Any ideas of where to check on those? I would love to get them; but don’t want to pay $500. Thanks.

  391. Sandy Suds Says:

    Woody, Nancy and others: Thanks again for all your help. Several months ago I wrote in because I was thinking of buying a used Bosch Nexxt 500 for $400 on Craigslist (here in southern Calif new prices are very high, and I could find no discounts). My old top loader finally died. After your very helpful comments I held my breath and plunged in, getting a signed guarantee they’d take it back if there were problems. RATS–with the second wash the door stayed locked. Oh, swell. The sellers were helpful, but they didn’t know much. So she gave me her father’s number in Utah, as he was in appliance sales and had brought her the nearly-new machine (her original one never died, as they’d expected, which is why she had two). He was great, telling me the couple of ways I could unlock the door (both involved crawling around on the floor and getting inside). I also went online to download the user’s manual and found a section on THREE ways one can unlock a stuck door. I screwed up my nerve and went ahead — it worked! I had the problem another time or two and decided to try resetting buttons — which worked but I wasn’t sure why. So I made the reckless choice of actually sitting down and reading all the use instructions. After all this messing around, I realized that, of course, it was because I was trying to open it wrong. You can’t use these like the simple old top loaders. Now I wait until the door “clunks” when it unlocks, or beeps or, if I need to stop/restart I’ve learned how to do that. This was almost as hard as learning how to use my new Apple computer! So, in case there’s anyone else who buys a used machine, my advice is to get the user’s manual online (just google “user manual” and the Bosch model number) and learn how to operate it properly. And come to this wonderful link. I’m now a dedicated Bosch-er and will buy a new one some day. WOODY, YOU’RE A BLESSING! And Nancy, thanks for all your help — and good luck with that job.

  392. Woody Says:

    Sandi: Glad you like your Bosch. Don’t feel bad…guys don’t read maps!

    Nikki: I had to go back and find my post. Not $50 (dollars)… 50%(percent)off.

    I don’t know what promotions are on in your area specificially or what prices you are being quoted for the product. You should be able to purchase the 6450 set for $999 or less for each piece plus the pedestals. What’s you zip code? I’ll see what I can find for you.

  393. Nikki Says:


    We have three in our city you can search by; 95928, 95926 and 95973. We are in 95928 but it is 20 minutes to get anywhere in Chico.

    Thank you!

  394. Nikki Says:

    Sorry, Woody, I meant to include the pricing…they had the 6450 at $999 plus tax minus $250 in rebates. The Gas Dryer to match was $1048 and NO rebates. Neither included the $248 PER pedestal.

    Thank you again.

  395. Nancy Mc Says:

    Sandy HI,

    Glad you checked in, it brought back memories of when I first used my Bosch, I too, didn’t wait for the click and tried to open the door, and took me about 5 minutes before realizing what I had done wrong :) I was so bummed to think I spent that much on a washer and couldnt open the silly thing… It helps to read this blog because we all have some great input for the person doing their research…. By the way, I got to meet lamb chop today, brought back so many memories of my childhood and Sherry Lewis, her daughter Mally is keeping up the good work :)

  396. Woody Says:

    Nikki: If Sacramento isn’t too far (looks like 80+ miles)but a long drive. There is a store called R C Willey there. They are having a big sale on Monday. You can ask how far they deliver. They should have some promotional like buy one get one free pedestal PLUS they have the salesman look for other promotional money that ISN’t advertised. Let me know if how that goes. 6636 Lonetree Blvd Rocklin, CA 95765

  397. Jenn Says:

    Hi Woody,

    I have enjoyed reading your comments and suggestions and I have found them to be most helpful in my search for a new washer and dryer.

    I am in a unique situation in that I have the Samsung 337 front loader series in the color of stratus grey. Apparently, Samsung has discontinued this model and this color finish. I have had these machines for a couple of years and have enjoyed them. The home that I just sold was propane gas and my new home is natural gas. We had the dryer converted from natural gas to propane gas when we purchased it a couple of years ago. We have been on the phone with Lowes, Samsung and local service companies for Samsung and everyone is telling us that we cannot convert the dryer back to natural gas. Everyone recommends that we buy a new dryer. The dryer is only two years old (if that) and it works great. We cannot easily find the stratus grey color dryer as we would want them to match for aesthetics and since we have the pedestals. Is this information accurate that we cannot convert the dryer back to natural gas? I have been online searching this evening for a new washer and dryer set since I cannot match my set and I stumbled on this thread. I would love to hear your opinion if you have a moment and thanks again for all of the valuable information from your posts.
    Thanks so much,
    Jenn (Massachusetts)

  398. woody Says:

    Jenn: I am not a Samsung expert but they keep asking me to be. Your story doesn’t encourage me to do so either. But something sounds wrong. Usually all that is required to convert a gas dryer is to “flip” the regualtor and replace one orfice, and maybe adjust the air shutter. We usually leave the old parts inside the dryer in case someone ever needs to reverse the process.

    If the dryer was initially natural gas then usually you could at least purchase the “original” part which would be set up for natural gas and that would solve your problem.

    Please include the machine model number and I will see what I can find out from one of my suppliers who handles Ssung parts.

  399. Jenn Says:

    Hi Woody, Thank you for your reply. The model number is DV337AGG/XAA. The machine was originally natural gas before we had it converted to propane. I wish you were a Samsung expert and I wish you were out here in Massachusetts because I think you would be able to solve our issue! I have been pleased with our Samsung machines and have not had any service calls in the almost two years since I have had the washer and dryer. Thanks so much for your help, I appreciate it more than you know! Thanks again, Jenn

  400. Keith C Says:

    Hi Jenn,

    I too have the same make/ model and colour. These units have been great for us!! Hope you find your answer.

    I searched Google and what comes up is a ton of info. on how to convert from Propane to Natural gas successfully. The people you’ve been talking too might not be very informed, I’ve run into that quite often with customer service and even some technical people.

  401. Woody Says:

    JENN: Again, I am not a Samsung expert. I found a parts breakdown on (OUCH) SEARS parts website. The entire gas valve is part # DC62-00201A which should be all that is required to get it back to being a natural gas dryer.

    “Information deemed reliable but not guaranteed” lol….

    Ever notice how people expect repair persons (cars, appliances, etc.) to be perfect, but Doctors and Lawyers get to “PRACTICE” what they do?

  402. Keith C Says:

    I like to think every service person is honest with one self. I never expect perfection just honesty, if they don’t know something (for sure) follow-up with the customer to be sure. That’s all!

    Especially in Jenn’s case where it “appears” blatant that the company/service tech’s have provided her with uninformed/ misinformation.

  403. Nancy Mc Says:

    I agree with Keith, just be honest if you don’t know, just say you don’t know, but…. with that being said, a good tech would also go back to the office and do research on what the problem might be. OR call someone and see if they can help with the problem ( heaven forbid if a man should call and ask for help LOL )

    Deep down inside I expect my repairmen to be perfect :) as far as attorneys, they get paid bunches of money for “practicing” and Doctors I have found I pay them big money for ME to tell them what I want them to do !!!!

    Woody you have a great sense of humor and I miss it when you forget to use it…. Life is too short to be serious all the time

  404. Woody Says:

    With all do respect to the technicians we might be bad mouthing, the public expects alot without paying anything. Samsung might have a fudiciary responsibility in helping Jenn as maybe would the company that originally did her conversation. Anything else is good will.

    “We the willing, led by the unknowing have done so much for so many for so long, with little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing” or:

    MY JOB

    It’s not my job to run the train
    The whistle I can’t blow.
    It’s not my job to even say
    Which way the train can go

    Forwards, backwards
    Fast or slow
    I can’t even ring the bell
    But let the damn thing jump the track
    NOW see who catches HELL!

  405. Nancy Mc Says:

    Woody I know that feeling well… Sunday we were going to Soldier Hollow, I was driving ( I have only been in UT since April ) my husband, who has been in UT over 2 years, and sister in law, she has lived in UT 30 years… so down I-15 we go needing to turn in Orem, well, we got to Prove and husband and sister in law said, we should have turned 8 miles BEFORE we got to Provo, well, since I was driving, guess who got blamed LOL even thou I had only been here a few months I was suppose to know all this stuff.

    I admire the working man who isn’t afraid of getting dirty, I do however believe that they don’t get paid enough. So Woody, come to UT and I will find a reason for an appliance call. LOL maybe the fact I can’t wash small loads ???

  406. Nancy Mc Says:

    oops, meant Provo

  407. Jenn Says:

    Thank you Woody for your all of your help with our dryer, finding us a part number and especially for taking the time out of your day to answer these questions, I truly appreciate your help. I’m so glad that I stumbled upon this posting as everyone,Keith and most especially Woody, seem to be so helpful and giving. It has been such a nice experience. Thanks again. Quick update – I’ve called another Samsung repair service company (now that I am armed with the knowledge that Woody provided). We are playing phone tag and hopefully they will be able to reverse it for us. Again….many, many thanks.

  408. Sandy Suds Says:

    Ghost problem. So I used liquid HP detergent for the first couple of months, but then switched to powder detergent (from Costco). Now I’m getting some faintly washed-out spots on some of my cotton knits, and rewashing doesn’t remove them. These aren’t new knits — I’ve never had trouble with this before. I’m wondering if there’s some chemical in the powder detergent that causing this. I thought perhaps the machine was just dumping all the detergent into the drum at once, so now I’m waiting until the water starts flowing through the soap dispense and sprinkling it in so it goes in gradually. THIS can’t continue…. So, Woody or anyone else — any ideas re what’s happening or, more important, what I can do about it? Thanks, Sandy

  409. Woody Says:

    Sandy: I think you answered you own question.

    “So I used liquid HP detergent for the first couple of months, but then switched to powder detergent” (from Costco)

  410. Sandy Suds Says:

    Dang! Thanks, Woody. Of course, I bought the super-huge gigantic box, so I guess I’ll keep sprinkling until I get tired of it and then pass on the remainder to someone else. Or return the whole thing to Costco. Dang again….Sandy

  411. Woody Says:

    Sandy Suds: Costco is very good about returning products that do not meet expectations. I’m sure they will exchange or refund the product.

    Keep in mind also, that in July 17 states joined the most of the rest of the country and banned the use of phosphates in laundry and dishwasher detergents. The boxes might look the same but what is in them is not.

  412. Sidney Says:

    Hello all – Woody has been so helpful to everyone here (including yours truly), that I am now going to pay it forward – or back – your choice, to let you know about an additional rebate on the Bosch 6450 washer/6330 dryer. As Woody mentioned last week, there is a $150 rebate on the washer; however, I spoke with a salesperson today who told me they are offering an additional $100 between 9/9 & 9/26. Woody, perhaps you can confirm for us??

    I am in Massachusetts and found a couple of small appliance stores that offered a price of $1650 for the pair–wait for it–before rebates. I’m pretty sure this is a great price, and based on Woody’s recommendation, we are taking the plunge! (pun intended).

    Thank you again Woody! You are simply the best! -Sidney

  413. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hey Everyone..

    Remember that problem I had about the not being able to do small loads? Well, I have EGG on my face!!! A friend asked me if I was using the delicate cycle? Well, I don’t have a delicate cycle on the 6450, I have a hand wash cycle..so, I tried that and only had 3 small garments and “IT”S A MIRACLE” LOL it worked !!! People, please READ THE MANUALS, on my old Duet I could put a small load on the reg perma press cycle and it was ok. So, guess I had better pay more attention on how to wash my clothes in my new Bosch 6450 :)

  414. Sidney Says:

    Thank you Nancy! I welcome any and all helpful tips as I gear up to buy the 6450! I’m very excited, by the way!

  415. Nancy Mc Says:

    Sidney you won’t regret it!! I am bad about just using the same cycle for everything, but now, I will be more attentive as to what clothes to wash in what cycle :)

  416. SIdney Says:

    I’m usually bad about reading manuals. I’ve always of been an “open the box and go” kind of girl. Although on this one, I’ve already resigned myself to the idea of reading the manual cover to cover. I guess that’s a good thing though. Certainly don’t want to pay a repair tech for something I could have avoided simply by reading the manual… for free!

    How’s everything else going? I think I read on an earlier post that you were job hunting…??

  417. Amanda Says:

    Woody: I have recently purchased the Bosch 6450 set and I am curious what you think about detergent. Obviously He for sure. Powder? Liquid? Brand? Just wondering what you recommend. Thanks!

  418. Woody Says:

    I like my detergent with ice cream and chocolate syrup drizzeled down the sides sprinkled heavyly with crushed walnuts and a cherry on top. Powder is best because it makes a nice mound whereas the liquids just lay flat in the bowl!
    HE (High Efficiency) detergents are recommended. Powders or liquids are both available and which one to use will depend on where you live, the hardness of you water, your preference for fragerances and the types of soils you deal with most. Your manufacture use and care guides will make suggestions that might be helpful.

    Anyone for ICE CREAM?

  419. Sandy Suds Says:

    Hi Amanda: Re your question about powder or liquid HE detergent. I don’t know where you live, but here in So Cal I used liquid with good results, and then I bought a giant-sized box of powder from Costco. I found that it sometimes takes a little of the color out of knits, in splotches, so now I’m sprinkling it into the soap dispenser as the water flows, so I don’t get a big blob of detergent. I’m hoping that will make a difference. I’ll go back to liquid when I’m finished with this.

    But I do like Woody’s idea!

  420. Natasha Says:

    Our 20+ year old Inglis gas dryer just died, but our 20+ year old Maytag top load washer is still currently working. Is there a decent, simple, inexpensive gas dryer you would recommend? We thought about replacing both the washer and dryer now, but since we don’t anticipate living in this house more than another 5 years, it seems like a waste of $3000 (after taxes and installation charges) when we don’t actually need a new washer now and might be able to escape buying a new one all together (if we move out before the washer dies).

  421. Jenn Says:

    I just wanted to send a quick note to THANK Woody for all of his help. I was able to track down a service company from further out of our service area and have them change the regulator and orafice from propane back to natural gas. Thanks again Woody, you saved me a couple thousand dollars since I didn’t have to buy a new washer and dryer after all. Thanks so much and please reconsider being a Samsung service rep as I love my machines and am happy that I was able to keep them. The service company and rep was fantastic as well. Thanks again and much appreciated! Take care. Jenn

  422. Woody Says:

    JENN: You are very welcome. Samsung actually contacted me last week and sent us a contract. We are considering doing the product. We have some experience with the product as Samsung made laundry and refrigeration for Maytag before they were bought by Whirlpool. I did learn the warranty parts come directly from Samsung out of California and out of warranty parts will be distributed by a large national parts company.

    Glad you had a happy ending.

  423. Colleen Says:

    Help! So confused right now.
    Maytag washer of 6 years died on us. Repairman said when purchasing new one don’t spend more than $300.00 to $400.00 on new one because washers are now not lasting more than 3 years.
    Would like to spend no more than 600.00 but after visiting Lowe’s and seeing what is out there I am so confused and starting to think we may have to spend more :( .
    Any suggestions?

  424. Woody Says:

    Colleen: I can’t say I agree with your repairman. Without more background of the brands he might be familair with, the size of your family and useage. If he is talking just top loaders maybe.

    If you are going to use the same repairman then you need to know his recommendations. If not then call a few other people in your area and see what they are familair with. If you were in our area I could name 3 or 4 brands to consider but they would be $600 – $850. I’ve been to Lowes and the selection of brands is good but the selection of models within brands seemed limited. Good luck

  425. Colleen Says:

    Thank you Woody for you response. So nice of you to reply with your knowledge :) .
    Our repairman was talking about Top Loader Washers and highly suggested that we spend no more than 400.00 at Lowe’s for a Roper, or Kenmore at Sears. He also said to overlook all the bells & whistles they may offer because you really don’t need all of them – just your basic washer.
    We are a family of 4(2 small kids)and have only ever used a Top Loader and were looking to stay with that style but after a trip to Lowe’s I am overwhelmed and confused on now what to purchase.
    We are trying to stay within a certain price range but realizing what that price range offers may not be so great of a product.
    Aghhh.. At this point I will be content with a washer that does the job, doesn’t sound like a jet airplane in our home(last one did – Maytag Alantis)and could give me a few great years.
    Thanks again – Colleen

  426. trytting Says:

    Nancy MC,

    We are in the Salt Lake Valley and are leaning towards Bosch based on Woody’s advice, your experience, and other posts. Where did you buy your washer? And your repairman – I can just call the number you included and find out who he is.

    Thanks for taking the time to share your information.

  427. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hi Tryfitting,

    I got mine at RC Willey, and I got it in the scratch and dent section….***** my repairman, which is wonderful is Appliance Repair by Paul********… good luck….. be careful they will try and push the LG’s on you, they did me and I kept telling them I didn’t want them, so sometimes you have to be pushy yourself…. also, they didn’t want to tell me about the scratch and dent section….

  428. Woody Says:

    trytting: Here is some insider information.

    RC Willey is located all over the West, California, Nevada, Utah,and Idaho. They have some promotional money for Bosch that is not adverstised.Ask a salesman. There is also energy rebates in Utah where you live of at least $150, maybe more. The 6450 washer is discounted right now. When you combine all these rebates you can get a screaming deal.

  429. Nancy Mc Says:

    Oh my gosh Woody, I think I heard her screaming LOL You are just a wealth of info, and useful info at that…. my husband says I am full of it, but I don’t think it is info LOL LOL

  430. Woody Says:

    Nancy…did you ever get a job outside the home? I looked up your repair guy. I found an Appliance Service by Paul but not Appliance Repair. Looks like a top notch company.

  431. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hey Woody,

    No I didnt get a job yet, they called my references but forgot to call me. I do have another State job interview this coming Wed… and yes, it was Appliance Service by Paul, my bad LOL I would have put the number on there but didnt have my glass handy to read the number….. good thing you are on your toes

  432. Woody Says:

    I have a friend who works for Amercian Express. They have a call center in Utah. He says they are hiring 160 people for customer service representatives. Check out their web site for employment opportunities. He says their business is doing well now. Maybe things are slowly coming back to where people aren’t afraid to spend money or buy a new house. That would be good for everyone if they don’t go into great piles of debt to do it. Good luck to you.

  433. Nancy Mc Says:

    Woody what are you doing up so late ? All those got you up? I will check out the website…. are you sure you dont need help in cyberland? My sister in law is visiting and just did 3 loads of laundry and LOVES my new Bosh 6450 !!!!

  434. Nancy Mc Says:

    OOPS, meant all those KIDS keeping you up ?

  435. Woody Says:

    It’s my quiet awake time. The children are nestled all snug in their beds with worries of school on Monday dancing in their heads. And I at my computor, my key board in hand, have had just about enough of this day as I can stand.

    So I’ll spring to my bed, away like a flash. Dream of fixing old washers and collecting some cash. But I’ll exclaim as I go as I tell you goodnight. If your sister in law loves you Bosch then we both did ALL RIGHT!


  436. Lostlink Says:

    Any Bosch rebates happening in October?

  437. Woody Says:

    No official word out on rebates. Some of the larger dealers have been given incentives but I don’t know if they are passing anything along to the consumer. It depends on where you live. There may be a “free” Bosch coffee maker coming in the works but that’s only good if you want a coffee maker.

  438. Nancy Mc Says:

    A coffee maker in Salt Lake City, now that’s funny. What a way to save on not giving them out LOL

  439. Woody Says:

    Silly Nancy…… the program is for the entire USA when it comes out.
    People can’t afford Starbucks at $5 a pop right now…lol.

    The machine does make awsome hot water though for your fall and winter hot chocolate, hot cereal and soups. A little soothing mixture to taste while folding you laundry. (Is that salesmanship or what?)

  440. Trytting Says:

    We did purchase the Bosch 6450 pair from RC Willey on Monday. Over and above the sale price, I asked about any other promotional discounts. The salesman said that there was something that applied to Kitchen appliances but not Laundry. In Utah there are two $75 rebates for the washer (one from the local Natural Gas Supplier, the other from the State Government to replace your old Washer). We did not purchase the pedestals, but did buy the extended warranty.

    I should let you know all know that (for better or worse) we are trusting the comments on this thread more than Consumer Reports. I found their recommendations, when combined with history and current comments from readers very confusing. It wasn’t until I read through this thread (and it took a while) that I felt the fog clear a little bit, just enough to feel comfortable with the decision. But it still feels like taking a risk. We are hoping we will have a positive experience.

    Thanks for taking the time to provide experiences and advice.

  441. Nancy Mc Says:


    I am glad you listened to us!!! Believe me, I am just a normal person with the very same concerns as you and wanted to make a good decision on what to buy. Please don’t do like me and not read the manual. I have found having a Bosch and washing clothes is trial and error, especially with the dryer. Shoot, I use to dry my jeans with my tops and in my old Duet they did fine, but the Bosch is different and I just had to learn how to use it and now I am so happy with it. I didn’t buy the pedestals either, too expensive, but I have found I am happier not having them because I can fold clothes on top of them, and hey, now I can bend down and touch my toes now LOL

  442. Woody Says:

    Trytting: Do you mind sharing with us the price you paid? Last thing I want to do is give out bad information.

    I personally find consumer reports a starting point, but knowing what I know about the industry I too get fogged up wondering how they come to some of the conclusions they do. One report I read showed the Roper brand with the best repair record. WHO fixes a $199 washing machine? They toss them and buy a new one. Much like the Hugo car that got such great gas mileage because it was always on the back of a tow truck ..lol.

    RC Willey handles their own extended warranties. So for the next 5 years you are in good hands. Good luck and please share that price with us if you feel you can.

  443. John MacKenzie Says:


    I want to thank you for all the advice you have provided. I really would love to pull the trigger on a bosch but for more than twice the price than the Maytag (in canada anyway) (which to me on looking at it had the most sensible system for water drainage out of the gasket area) with basically the same warranty, it doesn’t make sense to me. To me if I am spending that much more i would expect a better warranty.

    Do you have any thoughts on the Maytag 5000 series (they appear to be made in Germany too which is a good sign)


  444. Woody Says:

    Maytag (Whirlpool) is going to be launching a new line of products soon. I dont’ know the release date yet. The new machine will no longer have a belt and will be made in the USA. Bosch is made in the USA (North Carolina)even though they are a German owned company. So the Maytag will soon be added to the long list of obsolete laundry platforms that have been developed and then abandoned over the last 10 years.

    I am not sure why you are paying twice for the Bosch. I don’t see that difference comparing apples to apples. This Whirlpool-owned brand is positioned as a durable brand but is priced a bit lower than Whirlpool-branded products. The Maytag brand has two lines, the Epic and Epic Z, which cost $1,000 and $800, respectively, so how do we get at twice the price when the Bosch 6450 sells for $999 ??? Just wondering.

  445. Keith C Says:

    Obviuosly we have to wait to see the quality of the “NEW” Maytag (Whirlpool) products but the models that Woody mentions I have tried and have nothing but bad experiences with them.

    I have the Samsung units and are so far happy with them. I bought my mother in law the Bosch Nexxt units and other than longer than usual wash times the units are reliable and durable. Definately worth the LITTLE bit extra that one might pay even up here in the Great white north….eh!!

  446. John MacKenzie Says:

    Hi Woody,

    so you mean its not going to be any good any more?

    Ok Well i may have been rounding a bit, good call. But still the 6450 up here is $1299.00 + HST (thats the best price i could find) and the dryer at $1149 total is $2766. I can get the MHWE550WJ 5000 series for $810 and the dryer YMEDE500WR for $786 total after tax is $1803. So your right the difference is not as I indicated and I aplogise for that. Seems like a big difference to me given the warranty is not really any better AND the gasket drainage system looked more poorly designed to me than the Maytag one did. I know thats not the be all and end all, but I like lower things that are lower maintenance :)

    Do you have experience with the Maytag models i mentioned? Perhaps the brand is a bit different up here possibly?

    Also it seems the most consistently negative comments I have read about the bosch is the dryer, I know Nancy has commented that she had to learn how to use it, but frankly, If i throw jeans and tops in the dryer, I expect them to both come out dry (excluding the little seams and pockets of the jeans that of course never seem to dry on a regular run) as they do in my current machine (a frigidaire for that matter!)

    These rebates you talk about never seem to creep up this way to Canada unfortunately (save the standard government ones that apply to all the models i look at).

    I basically have a massive distrust of all products quality these days and its hard for me to justify and extra grand just because its supposed to be better, but the warranty does not back that up?

    those are my thoughts be them right or wrong.

    thanks woody!

  447. John MacKenzie Says:


    hmm thanks, I was also considering samsung, but also did not like their drainage system (although it was probably next best to the maytag) I am not looking at the epic z though looking at the 500 series. I dont even seen any epic z anywhere on maytags site (in canada)

    any thoughts on the 5000 series?



  448. Woody Says:

    John MacKenzie: When a manufacture discontinues a product the price of repair parts climbs up or the parts become unavailable. Doesn’t make the machine bad but it is a future consideration. The Bosch you mention sells here in the USA for $899-$999 less rebates. Perhaps where you are there are freight issues etc. I don’t know.

    Bosch isn’t a “put a bigger warranty on it” company. The Maytag here only has one year parts and labor. Maytag covers the drum and the motor for 5 years. Any idea what the labor is to replace a drum? Doesn’t include the seals and bearings that will be needed. Not really a valuable coverage, but it sounds good. The Bosch is one year plus TWO years on parts, motors and electronics.

    Most of the complaints about drying have been because of poor venting. Bosch gives the customer an “E01″ code. Maytag and other trip a thermal fuse causing a service call. It is not the dryer that is at fault it is the installation. Sensor dryers will shut off when the lightest fabric is dry rather than continue to run and over dry one fabric while it drys the more dense fabric. Mixing loads is not recommended by any manufacture.

    Maybe appliances cost more there to pay for your free health care …lol…. I’m sorry you have lost your trust in appliances. I somewhat have also. But that’s why I’m not afraid to put on these posts my experience with these products.

    Your difficulty sounds like price disparity. I have no idea how to resolve across boarders. I don’t think you will be disappointed with the Maytag in any way.

  449. John MacKenzie Says:

    woody thanks. thats somethign to think about… So that whole line is going to be discontinued…. that is a consideration for sure thanks for that info. you are truly a wealth of knowledge. I think the warranties are different here too the bosch is 1 year labour and 2 years parts on those things you mentioned but not labour which i know is a big portion of repair cost right?, Maytag is 1 year P and L on everything, i dont see 5 on the motor and drum (its LG that has 5 and 10 on the motor and drum) but i dont like the looks of the LG.

    >>if I buy with my credit card i get an extra 1 year warranty too. Extended warranties are hard to swallow for me as well but i guess may be worth it for washers/dryers?

    I will investigate the venting issue and look into the sensing thing more too, thanks for that input!

    lol on the healthcare, even though our dollars are basically at par, products are still 15-20 more expensive here, but even still I would say, at least in Toronto, the cost of living is a lot less than those places i have visited in the states. And I will gladly pay a bit more on stuff if it means the healthcare system we have. but lets not get into that :)

    thanks again.

  450. Trytting Says:

    We paid $2050for the pair at RC Willey ( http://www.rcwilley.com/Appliances/Laundry/Laundry-Pairs/BOSCH-6450-ELE-PAIR/2270994/Bosch-Electric-Laundry-Pair-View.jsp )

    They charged us $60 for delivery and setup, with the story that the delivery charge is a once-per-year thing if we buy more stuff from them.

    I think the extended warranty was $200 or $250 – I will have to look.

  451. Keith C Says:

    Yup, Home Depot and Sears I know for sure were selling the EPIC Z models, which had 3 or more different levels of quality. I bought them and realized right away that it wasn’t going to be good. The washer once it started it’s spin cycle started moving around even though it’s levelled near perfect and is stacked with the extra weight of the dyer on top. You talked about the drainage, if it’s the door seal your referring to i had water always sitting in the seal with the Maytag all 9 loads I did. The first time i started the dryer a metal came off because i heard it hit the inside wall and come to rest at the bottom of the unit. not sure exactly what it was but I wasn’t going to take any more chances on the Washer or dryer after that.

    I’ve seen the Maytag 5000 but I had already tasted the bitter pill from Maytag and had enough.

    I can tell you that it was about a month long of research and in the end the Samsungs were (for me0 the best choice. I did buy the extended warranty however the guy at Future Shop gave me a great deal!!
    If you live in Barrie go see Arthur at the Future Shop off of Bayfield Rd…..good guy!

  452. Nancy Mc Says:

    John now that I am thinking back on my old dryer and drying my jeans with my tops, my tops were ever so slightly wrinkled, guess it was because they stayed in there too long while the jeans dried… now in my Bosch, when I had the jeans with the tops, the dryer kept going off so I could go get all the light stuff out that was dry then having to keep turning the dry back on to dry the jeans. I have since started drying jeans separate from my tops and it has worked out much better, now my tops aren’t wrinkled at all and my jeans get dry without having to keep turning the dryer back on….

    Woody, I just now read your comments about going to bed !!! You should be a stand up in your spare time LOL

  453. Kate Says:

    I have spent the last several hours researching a new FL washer and dryer and all of these posts have been included in my research. Now, I am finding myself extremely confused on which product to look into further and more flustered on what may happen a year down the road and how much it will cost, UGH!!
    My family is a total of four and we have the typical filth that two children bring with in on their clothes. Can someone just tell me what I should go buy with a budget of $600-$700. per item please. I’m to the point of desperate now!! Any help is greatly appreciated.
    Good posts by the way to all of you.

  454. woody Says:

    Kate, have you any preferences yet? Gas or electric dryer?

    You can get several brands in that price range.

    Area you live in and service availability are also considerations.

  455. glenda Says:

    Thank you greatly for your unending advice on washers and dryers!
    Your daughter must take after you-in helping those in need! I taught elementary school for 32 years! It is a hard but very rewarding position, tell your daughter.

    My question:
    Moving into a new home in Dallas, Tx, (am for sure considering the Bosh washer and dryer after reading this blog), so do you know of a reputable service person and or store to use? Hoping you have an acquaintance here in the Big D! Thank you in advance.

  456. Woody Says:

    glenda: I don’t have a lot of contacts in the Dallas area, but if you can call Appliance Parts Depot (APD). You can ask them who the best Bosch service companies are. They deal with these people everyday.

    They may even know who some self servicing dealers are.

  457. Steve Says:


    Jsut read thru this entire page looking at what you had to say. I see you are a huge proponent of Bosch currently. That said, what do you think about the Maytag 4/5000 series now they are Whirlpool made? specifically the 450 washer and 500 electric dryer.

    I have read about noisy spins cycles, but have no real basis to compare as this will be my first front loader.

  458. Woody Says:

    Steve: I think we covered this pretty well in the October 6th posts about Maytag.

    The word to consider is “value”. What am I getting for what I paid? Will it do the job intened? Will it last a long time? What will it cost to repair if repairs are needed?

    Add to that: Is there a company in MY area who repairs this brand?
    Can the readily get parts for the product at a reasonable cost? And lastly…will my wife/girlfriend still love me after the purchase or hold resentment because I was too cheap to buy her the very best…lol… (BTW…your best is what you can afford…you don’t go into debt to buy appliances or diamonds)

  459. Steve Says:

    Well, I guess I did happen to skim that bit of the conversation for some reason. I will say it is disheartening; the only true appliance store around here is pushing the Maytags and has stopped stocking the Bosch models because “they were stretching out clothes, the owner took the last set home because it wouldn’t sell. He since replced them”. This was about three years ago according to the sales rep.

    I understand your comments on finding a reputable service guy, the problem is, being military and subject to moving frequently, brand whatever might have good service here, but what about in the next town?

    That said, I need to find a set that either is ‘least likely’ to need a service guy, or a brand whose service will be readily available at a large number of smaller markets, as most military installations are not in the big cities.

    Thanks again for all the info so far.

  460. Woody Says:

    Steve: Yes, that is a lot of information to read through. I even had to go back and make sure where it was and what was dicussed.

    You are welcome. I don’t know what part of the military you are in but THANK YOU for whatever it is you do to protect us.

    It’s hard for a little dealer to compete against the big stores anymore. Profit is going to drive every store though to sell what they can make money on. Whatever you buy use it properly (soap, loading, keep the door open occasionally) and you should get decent service out of it. Good luck and God bless you.

  461. Steve Says:

    Oh, so you mean using these things as they are designed, any of the major brands (save Kenmore???), they will last for a good while? Good to know. That said, is this one of the exceptions where an extended warranty might be worth reading the fine print over?

    I realize, as a rule, people only post stuff when they have something to complain about. Good to know a major investment like this is no different.

    I appreciate the kind words. I have the best job in the world and will keep coming to work as long as I am having fun!

  462. Woody Says:

    Steve: I think I would save any money you might spend gettting an extended warranty. Because you say you move, the warranty may not obtainable without some difficulty. Exceptions might be a Whirlpool brand warranty or (I’m going to say this) a Sears warranty. But when you buy warranties you are tied to the people who honor them AND the their schedules. FREEDOM is being able to just call who you want, when you want. Set aside a little fun for repairs (www.daveramsey.com) and enjoy financial peaace.

    A KENMORE btw could be an LG, Samnsung, Whirlpool, Frigidaire and so on. It is simplay a brand name Sears owns and controls what the name gets put on. I prefer people buy the actual brand name of the manufacture. Makes life easier when looking for parts or service.

  463. John P Says:

    Does anyone know if the the optional side vent on a Bosch Vision 500 gas dryer
    has a knock-out plate or does the hole have to be cut?


  464. Woody Says:

    John P:

    There is a knockout on the side of the dryer (as you face the front of the dryer) and a knockout on the bottom to vent down. The dryer can’t vented out the LH side.

  465. John P Says:

    Thanks Woody. I saw a Bosch Part WTZ 1310 “Side Vent Cutter” for $99 !
    Is that necessary?

    Very nice forum here, thanks for doing this.


  466. Keith C Says:

    Hi Woody,

    I recently started hearing a squealing sound when the washer is starting to fill with water. This seems to only happen when I select the Warm/Cold temp. settings and not when the Cold/Cold setting is selected.

    The machines are only 3 months old and are the Samsungs. have you heard of this issue before. What do you think??

  467. Woody Says:

    We currently do not service Samsung. Sounds like a water supply issue (pressure)or justs normal operation.

    If you can duplicate it everytime then call your authorized Samsung service company and have them check it out while it is in warranty.

  468. Woody Says:

    John P: Not necessary if you are going to use the knockouts. I would suggest you contact Bosch’s 800# if you are going to try to go out the LH side with a vent. I’ve never used that tool.

  469. Keith C Says:

    Thanks Woody for the quick response!!

    You think it might be pressure related as opposed to the unit having issues itself….right??

    I hesitate to call a service tech. because they might charge me (I think) if it turns out to be an issue with the pressure in the house versus an issue with the machine.

  470. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hey everyone,

    Well it has been 6 full months on owning my Bosch 6450 and I still love them… again Woody, you have come thru for us, I only hope that you realize how much we appreciate it !!!

    By the way I GOT A JOB!! With Coca Cola, it is only 3.5 miles from my house YEA… I mean what more can you ask for a new state, new washer and dryer, a new job and best of all a new friend in Woody :)

  471. Woody Says:

    Nancy: Great except for one thing. 5 weeks ago I gave up caffinated beverages, diet coke being my FAVORITE! I hope my lack of purchasing power won’t cost you the job you just got.

    Very happy for you and your new job. Good not to have you on the government dole…..lol.

  472. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hey Woody, thanks !!! I don’t drink much pop, if I do it is Sprite and that is only occasionally… I do however drink Dasani Water and that is a coke product… It shouldn’t affect me too much as I am dispatching 15 service guys on all the equipment, guess I will get to know the street grid pretty quick LOL

  473. Mike H Says:

    I’ve been reading through the posts and found some interesting info.

    I’m in the market for a new dryer, but am now considering buying a pair. My current washer is a top load Maytag Performa that is about 10 years old. I just put a new transmission, new water pump, and a few other things in it earlier this summer, so it’s like new again. Also, since I fixed it, I know it inside out at this point. Those are points for keeping that washer.

    I found a good deal on a pair of front load GE Profile at Home Depot. Around $900 out the door for the floor models of the DPVH880EJWW and WPDH8800JWW. It’s a good deal and tempting, but I haven’t found much on the GE Profile.

    I could get the GE Profile pair and sell my washer, or just get a dryer. Opinions?


  474. Woody Says:

    Mike: Read this article also on Appliance Journal. “Why Kenmore washers fail”


  475. Mike H Says:

    Thanks Woody. I read through a bunch of that. So are Kenmore FL washers basically GE? Is the GE Profile line have a different design, or are they also prone to the spider arm assembly breaking?

    All of this doesn’t give me a good feeling about getting a new FL washer. What is your opinion in general on the GE Profile models I listed?

    I may now be leaning toward keeping my washer, and just getting a new dryer. At least I know I can fix my washer if needed, and the parts aren’t too expensive.

    Seems like dryers are less controversial, but are there any recommendations for a good dryer?

  476. Woody Says:

    To me GE means grossly expensive or get everything. I am not a GE fan.

    If you got that much life out of a Maytag Performa and changed a transmission I wouldn’t worry too much. You can fix anything.

    I’m still a Bosch fan.

  477. John P Says:

    Got my new Vision 500 dryer in Anthracite yesterday. Washer coming in 2 weeks. Funny seeing old washer and new dryer side by side, but that will be fixed before our son comes home from school Thanksgiving with lots of laundry :) .

    Man is the Bosch dryer QUIET. Love it. Noticed what some did, that the clothers weren’t quite as dry as we were used to, but suspect that it’s due to all the reasons previously mentioned: 1) Bosch tends to dry at lower temperatures; 2) Would help to have a modern FL washer to go with it; 3) Need to understand all the different settings.

    Paradoxically, my wife suggested Bosch when I started reading horror stories about Electrolux models overheating/cooking the clothers. Just like steaks, I guess a little under-done is better than the opposite.

    Woody, quick question: Does the size of the gas supply line make any difference at all? I noticed the manual calls for a 3/8″ line, and I used a 1/2″ with adapters. Does the dryer care? Seems not to matter. Thanks.

  478. Woody Says:

    Depends on if you are using 3/8 o.d. or 1/2 o.d. (outside diameter)
    If you used 3/0 o.d. then it might be a little bit undersized.

    But 1/2′ o.d. is acutally 3/8″ i.d.

    You should be ok.

  479. Mike H Says:

    Well, to follow up, I ended up with the Maytag Performance series FL pair (MEDE500VW and MHWE450WW ) and got a pretty good deal at Home Depot. So far I really like them.

    I do have one question that I hope Woody may be able to offer some advice. The dryer thumps cyclically. The installer claimed it was the rollers from sitting and it would go away. Seems reasonable and something I’ve validated through other sources.

    However, after many loads and several days it has not improved. While it shows slight improvement while in a cycle it is always there. My question is whether I should try for a replacement dryer, call in for service, or just live with it. I don’t think it should be as bad as it is for a new high end appliance.



  480. Woody Says:

    Mike: ANYTIME, you have a concern about a new appliance have the authorized service company come check it out. The first 30 days are the most critical as everything, even customer education should be covered with a Maytag.

    If the noise hasn’t diminished, you might have a spot in the drum which is indented due to handling. If the dryer was set down hard during it’s travels to your home. The rollers could depress the tub where the sat and cause a noise. No big deal, they just change the drum out. Very simple process for an experienced tech.

  481. Karen Says:

    Hi everyone,

    I’ve read a fair bit of what’s been posted above and would love to buy the Bosch 6450 BUT my laundry room is of a limited size and I can only put in a top loading washer. Based on what’s been posted, I’ll stay away from Kenmore but could I get suggestions for a really good top loader? I have 2 kids and one on the way so I’m looking for something that will help with the stains too.



  482. Lori Says:

    Dear Karen:

    My laundry room is very small too but I fit my Bosch 800 series side by side with no problem. Mine are on pedestals but you can also opt to stack them. However, please know that if you opt to stack them, that is a permanent decision because they are –forgive my terminology Woody it may not be exactly correct– screwed together. My machines get out any stain and treat the clothes very gently. I have never had cleaner clothes or whiter whites! My clothes come out of the washer damp not dripping (like my dearly departed Kenmore) I hope this helps. Best of luck to you!

  483. Karen Says:

    Thanks Lori. I wish that was my problem but there are built in cabinets above the machines preventing stackables and there’s our wash sink in front of the washer leaving no room for front loaders. Believe me, if I had the time I would reconfigure the space but I don’t unfortunatlely. So, any Top Loader suggestions?

  484. Woody Says:

    Karen: My choice would be a Whirlpool Cabio if you can’t do a front loader and want high efficiency. Second choice would be a Whrilpool direct drive which is still available.

    As far as stain removal goes an Asko (not an XXL model) is right there with the Bosch and maybe has an edge. They are European size (holds more than you think) and require a lot more space. But be certain you have someone in you area who is familair with the product should you need service. They have a 3 year warranty on them out of the box. Their heighth stacked is lower than the full size. Hope that give you some options.

    PS: The stacking of a Bosch can be reversed.

  485. Karen Says:

    Thanks Woody!

    I have to say I’m a little confused by your stacking comment and I looked for Asko’s and then emailed them and they told me they have no top loaders so I’ve taken a further look at the Whirlpool and there’s a lot a Cabrio’s!

    Any suggestion as to model number? I was just told that the 6000 series is discontinued but can’t figure out which is a good unit choice from the rest. Also, is a steam dryer a really good thing? Can it help with clothing that needs to be dry cleaned?

  486. Mac Says:

    Uh, what did you do with my reply? I’m not about to type it all over again.

  487. Nari Says:


    Im looking to buy a washer/dryer, preferably frontloaders.I came across this forum while researching.
    Im all for buying the Bosch 6450 pair. But is it discontinued? Cant seem to find it. If it is no longer available, which Bosch model should I consider?( not preferring white)
    I just moved to Albuquerque, New Mexico. Where should I go look for a good deal on the Bosch duo? Will Black Friday be of any benefit to me if I want to buy the desired Bosch?

  488. Woody Says:

    Nari: The 6450 is usually only available from dealers who are part of certain buying groups. The WFVC533 models are very similair. You can even by a model with less features. The stain cycle, and allergy cycle are great features and are on many miles. The Bosch web site allows you to compare models side by side.

    I am not sure what Black Friday promotions are avialable to you in your area. There is a free Bosch $200 coffee maker available with certain models. Check the promotions link on on the Bosch web site. The promotions are usually not available at Lowes & Sears.

    Hope that helps. Good luck.

  489. Cynthia Says:

    In reply to a comment posted several years ago and to the recent comment about Kenmore being compared to GE appliances. For years, I mean years, Kenmore was manufactured by Whirlpool. According to a Sears salesperson, Kenmore washer and dryers are now being manufactured by LG.
    I have been a Kenmore follower and now need to reassess by allegiance now that I know there has been a change.

    I hope this helps other when making a decision.

    I am one that believes it maks a difference who is manufacturing the appliance. One more thing to take into consideration.

  490. Woody Says:

    Cynthia: Kenmore appliances have always been manufacutured for SEARS by MANY manufactures. Whirlpool was a main supplier of laundry but not the ONLY supplier. The have more than four companies manufacturing dishwashers.

    Since the LG switch they have now added Samsung to their line.

    Forest Gump says Buying appliances from SEARS is like a box of chocolates. You never know what your are going to get!” lol

  491. Nari Says:

    Thank you Woody

    So I’m looking at fullsize WFVC6450UC washer and
    WTVC533SUS dryer on the bosch website. Will they work as a pair, you think? or should I consider some other combo?
    will greatly appreciate your suggestion :)

  492. Woody Says:

    Nari, they will work fine as a pair, however I believe the 533S is silver. Any pair in the 500 series is a good value. The 6450 has a couple of perks to it and is made available only to certain dealers.

  493. John Says:

    Received and installed a Bosch Vision 500 series gas dryer and washer, Anthracite color.
    After two weeks of use, very happy. Coming from the older technology, the new models take a little getting used to, but very pleased with the intelligent design, the dryer temperature sensing and the post-drying periodic tumbling to prevent wrinkles, the steam/misting function, etc.
    Both are very quiet machines and work as advertised.
    Only issue was the fact that the set is designed to have the washer on the left, dryer on the right, which put it too far away from water source. This was easily fixed by getting an extra set of hot/cold supply lines and a male/male coupler.
    Appreciate having this website as an information source before making this large purchase.

  494. Nari Says:

    Woody, my husband found these today while searching for deals online



    Please tell me what you think after viewing the website and deals. Just awaiting your word on this before purchasing it. Im okay with the color white as long as the features are great.

    You mention a mist care dryer in certain messages above, which Bosch model is it?

    Thanks so much for your all your kind help on this, really. Much appreciated.

  495. Michael Says:

    I am replacing a 21 year old Maytag dryer hopefully with a Bosch. I am concerned with the vent built into our home even though it does not cause problems currently. It enters the wall with 4″ PVC, turns 90* down through the slab, turns 90* left for 10 ft. to the outside wall, turns 90* up inside the exterior wall, turns 90* through the wall to the outside vent with cover. I guess it was the only option for the vent because of the laundry room location (I have tried to conjure up a better way). I have to clean the pipe to remove moisture and lent build up. The laundry room is 7′x 8′ inside our home with heat/air.
    1. Will this be sufficient for a new Bosch dryer, without problems?
    2. Should I consider the condensation dryer?
    Thanks for your time!
    An old Fighter Pilot

  496. Woody Says:

    Wow Michael, tough question. I don’t think I can do all the math but here are the specs (below) for you. That old Maytag dryer you had was AWSOME when it came to moving air. Going to be tough to duplicate that. There are auxillary blowers available you can purchase after market that can be put inline but with what you describe I’m not sure there is a place.

    I’m not a fan of condensor dryers of any brand but sometimes that’s the only choice you have. There are other options like the water vent bucket if the dryer is electric. Inexpensive yet functional, however you do have to humidity to deal with.

    Maximum length : 66′ maxium rigid vent. Subtract 10 feet for the 1st elbow and 9 feet for each additional elbow. Sounds like you have at least 37 feet in just elbows. With the one 10 foot length you mention that makes it at least 47 feet without calculating the other lengths you didn’t include but mentioned. It’s going to be a marginal vent for any dryer. If you include ANY flexible duct work it hasn’t got a chance!

    Maximum length for most dryer can be found in their installation booklet online. Hope that helps.

  497. Happy Says:

    Hey I’ve read the entire postings (on washers/dryers)… and i was thinking about getting new washers, dryers (yes two of them), and you guys all sound pretty wise and experienced, would someone please tell me:

    1. is mold still a problem with front load washers?

    2. how are the steam washers / dryers ?

    3. does (or did) anyone have any issues with GE ( i was thinking about buying WPDH8900J and DPVH890GJMV) ?

    4. Could you suggest anything better? more efficient?

    5. Any suggestions for smaller sized washer/dryers that range $1000 or less (total) ?

    sorry, i know, a lot of questions…

  498. Michael Says:

    Thanks for your reply.

    I paid $1,078.40 for a Maytag washer and dryer on Oct 2, 1990, that was a lot of money back then. I am now donating them to a Christian Ministry, hopefully they will serve well. 20 years of service equals $53.92 per year and $4.49 per month. WOW, lets say that backwards, WOW! We average 5 loads a week(very conservative estimate), 20 per month, 240 per year, which equals $0.225 (cents) a load. 45 gallons of water per load equals 900/month, 10,800/year, 216,000 gallons over the 20 years.

    Our replacements are Bosch 500 series front loaders. My wife is ex-static about their performance, amazed at the difference in the condition of her clothes when she puts them away. We paid $2,047.95 for them, 20 years service will equal $102.39 per year, $8.53 per month, and $0.43 per load, if they only last ten of course it will be double or $204.78/$17.06/$0.86, still less than at a laundromat. I am crossing my fingers. 17 gallons of water per load equals 340/month, 4,080/year, 81,600 over 20 years, a 37.7% reduction, my septic tank will be pleased.

    Installation and following the owners manual are critical to the performance and thus Happiness with these new units.


  499. Casey Says:

    Hi Woody and friends,

    I have been reading through this great thread as we search for a new washer/dryer for our upcoming move. I’ve been fully sold on the Bosch now I just need to figure out where to buy them. Is anyone aware of any rebates or deals going on right now? We have found the WFVC3300UC dryer for as low as $719 but I worry that we might be missing something important going with the base level model.

    Do you think that it’s important to get up to the 500 series? I was told that since new models often are released in Jan that there are often sales on the previous models. We are moving to the San Francisco area at the end of January and so we don’t want to wait too long.

    Thank you for any feedback that you can provide.

  500. Woody Says:

    Moving from where to San Francisco?

  501. Casey Says:

    We’re currently in Seattle, WA and are leaving for CA on 1/21.

  502. Woody Says:

    Several things to consider. Sales taxes are one. If you buy a set in Oregon as you go down the coast you can save the sales tax.

    I am not aware of any changes in models upcoming. That is about a year away I am told. The best way to choose a model is by purchasing the features you will use. That is a personal choice.

    You need to consider if you should purchase the product in the state you are moving to also, just in case there are any problems, or from a national retailer like Sears or Lowes. Lowes would be my first choice but their models are limited in Bosch.

    There is a dealer in Utah who can sell the 6450 and 6330 models for $765 (electric dryer) each if you can find a way to get them to Calif. If you ship via truckline (common carrier) there would be no sales taxes. They also have the 300 series for $665 each. I don’t know how many they have left at that price.

  503. Casey Says:

    Thanks Woody. We are flying down for the move so Oregon won’t be an option unfortunately. What is the dealer in Utah? Lowe’s is the lowest that we’ve found here so far. I know that it’s a personal choice on models, I was just wondering if you thought there were any huge differences between the 300 and the 500 series that made it worth the jump. I don’t want to have any regrets later. I’ve really appreciated all of your feedback on this forum.

    Thank you again for your time!

  504. Nari Says:

    I got my Bosch 6450washer/ 6330dryer today, Im quite happy rightnow :) Don’t have to go to the neighbors to do laundry anymore, hehe. It was tough to pass over the anthracite color in favor of white but I decided to go with 6450..it certainly has some extra perks to it, as compared.
    I’ll make sure to use HE powder only. What else?
    I’ll keep you people posted about the performance of the machines after a couple of weeks use.
    adios :)

  505. lyn rypma Says:

    Unless I missed something reading thru all these posts help!! We cannot afford Bosch
    Our Maytags have been nothing but trouble – what ever happened to the Maytag repair man with nothing to do??
    I still want top load and front load dryer – call me old fashioned – I want to be able to do small loads – delicates and also large loads.
    My dryer has a setting where I know exactly how to dry t shirts and tops with out having them be all wrinkled.
    Any advice on these question??

  506. Woody Says:

    lyn rypma: Those aren’t really questions, they are statements. You don’t want to spend alot and you want a top loader.

    Any of the newer top loaders are pretty much as expensive as front loaders. You can purchase a Bosch washer for as low as $699. There are a lot of new designs in washers out there now but they haven’t got a track record so I can’t really say how they are going to hold up for you.

    Maytag in it’s last days tried to build machines to compete with low end machines like GE and Frigidare. In doing so they destroyed there company and their reputation. The remnents were purchase by Whrilpool Corp. Whirlpool has some candidates that are very competivie to the best machines, but there are plently of choice their also.

  507. lyn Says:

    so Bosch again for a top load ? and front load dryer? great!! any certain models?
    thanks I appreciate this a ton – I feel good about your recommendations after taking 1 1/2 hours to read thru all of these posts!! my husband doesn’t like Consumers Reports – because he says their foreign based?? we are USA buyers and sellers:)

  508. John Says:


    Have you had any experience with Bosch washer error code E-27?
    If so, from your experience, what are the typical root causes for them?

    I have some thoughts, but wanted to get your opinion.
    My model is the Vision 500 Three weeks old.


  509. Woody Says:

    John: If your washer is only 3 weeks old and you have an error code contact your local service company. The product is in warranty and you should document any failure codes with the company.

    Lyn: Sorry if I wasn’t clear. Bosch front loader $699. They don’t make a top loader. Best top loaders are the Whrilpool brands right now.

  510. Amanda Says:

    We have the Bosch Vision 500 set and got the code E13. My husband read the manual for that code and took off the kick plate. He drained the water from the tub and removed the cap where we found a sock. Once he replaced everything and started the washer again we got the code E17. We unplugged and waited 30 min then tried again. Still E17. We called the store where we bought the washer and they are scheduling a repair visit. But since it is a holiday weekend…who knows when they will come for sure. Do you have any suggestions for us to try? We purchased this set the first of Sept. 2010. Thanks for your help.

  511. Woody Says:

    E17 is an “aqua stop” error. Most likey you got water the the bottom of the machine (base pan.)when he drained it. Easily repaired by tipping the machine forward with a towel in front of it and letting the water drain out of the base pan then trying again. There are other ways but I lazy and that is how I might do it.

    Happy New Year.

  512. Woody Says:

    P.S. Information deemed reliable but not guaranteed! (lol)

  513. Nancy Mc Says:

    Happy New Years everyone !!!!

    I still love my Bosch, wish I could say the same about all the snow LOL

  514. lavendersblue Says:


  515. lavendersblue Says:

    (Sorry about that. I wasn’t sure where to post.)

    Happy New Year to all of you and wishing you the best of things coming your way in 2011! I feel like I know several of you after wading through this thread for the last couple of hours.

    Well, I think I get the blue ribbon for longest-owned washer/dryer. I am kicking and screaming that I need to replace my 33-year-old (YES, REALLY!) Maytag pair. Together, we have survived a number of moves, and a family’s worth of everything from diapers to jeans to quilts to what-have-you.

    I hate the thought of having to watch the delivery men cart away my beloved pair. (I must be weird–just a year ago I had to get rid of my 20-year-old car, and I literally cried as I watched it being towed away.)

    Anyway, I guess I have a question for Woody. On my washer, I assume the timer has gone. I put my delicates on delicate, and they proceed through that cycle and continue through regular and permapress before arriving back at the beginning! My dryer still runs, but doesn’t seem to be heating adequately, so I am needing to put a load of towels thru 2 cycles–2 hours’ worth. Aside from being strangely attached to my “antiques”, I am on medical leave from work and therefore have a limited income. My buying approach has always been, buy the “best” brand of any appliance, with the least amount of features you need. However, after reading this forum, I would intend to buy a Bosch (Vision 500 seems to be the only model available locally) at $1700 CDN, with 13% tax and $500 for pedestals (back problems). Quite a pricey proposition.

    So…….the question is (and I know it must sound silly, but I need to ask): is it possible to get my old Maytags repaired and is it worth it? I only do laundry these days for the two of us and manage with a load or two a week. I mean, if parts are available, even though it may cost say $500, if they would last a couple of years it would be worth it to me.

    Thanks for reading this long-winded post, and thank you to Woody in advance for any professional opinion.

    Take care.

  516. Woody Says:

    lavendersblue: To really help you decide on repair vs replacement I would need to know your model number. I am going to guess though that the washer is a A_08 (A608, 808, or something like that).

    2nd, make make sure if you have a regular delicate button that the buttons are firmly pressed in. The try it again and get back to me.

    The dryer: first thing to do is check all the venting and make sure it is unobstructed and clean, especially where it exits the home.

  517. Arlene Says:

    I don’t think I’ve read anything about Miele machines on this site. Woody, what do you think of their washer & dryers? other than they’re very expensive.

  518. Woody Says:

    Arlene: We have been asked several different times to do work for Miele brand appliances. My apprehension has been 1. Limited amount of product in the market place. 2. Availability and cost of repair partss. 3. A demanding clientele. 4. COFFEE MAKERS! (What a pain and a liability).

    I have one very high end (billionaire) customer, very nice person, who has pretty much told me she bought Miele and expects me to service it for her! (mmm…fear). I’d say if you have a large budget and aren’t afraid to find a service company, wait for parts, and face an expensive repair then got for it!

  519. Josey Says:

    Thank you Woody!! I’m at my parent’s house and they’ve been getting the E17 error code o their front loader Bosch 500 series and couldn’t get it fixed. Your tip about tipping the washer to drain the water out worked perfectly. Thank you!!

  520. Arlene Says:

    Thanks Woody,
    The reason we’re in the market for a washer is I’ve been getting rust spots on our whites. (one of my white shirts and a light coloured towel) Can the problem be fixed or do we need to buy a new washer?

  521. ~Proverbs31~ Says:

    Woody, you’re the BEST!

    I was blessed this evening to be in Lowe’s right after they had marked down a 500 series Bosch electric dryer from $999-$700-$450 ~ SCORE!!! The machine had 2 small dents on both sides. Sides that will NEVER be seen in our laundry room! =)

    Now I’m in the market for the matching washing machine & pedestals. Can you tell me when the BEST DEALS come out? I’m most interested in the Bosch rebates, as we have several businesses in our area that will price match (& beat) any advertised sale price.

    Thanks & God Bless!

  522. Woody Says:

    Arlene: Rust on clothes can usually be attributed to washers with porcelain wash baskets that have chips or dryer drums (not the only cause, but the first thing for you to check). The rust “bleeds” onto the clothing after the wash is completed and the clothes are still wet. Removing the clothing immediately will generally prevent the rust from transferring.

    On the dryer side of this problem, same thing almost. The clothes sit on wet on the drum either from not be completely dry at the end of the cycle as absorb the rust, or the clothes are put in the dryer and not started immediately. Solutions being don’t leave wet clothes in the dryer or washer or replace the tub or drum if needed. The later would depend on brand, age and cost to replace. Hope that helps you.

  523. woody Says:

    Nari: Can’t find your post. I don’t know that dealer. Prices are good but I don’t know how they can actually sell and ship for that price. You have to make that decision.

    The dryer does have Mist care (steam) that you sent me a pic of.

  524. Jim Dunlop Says:

    I purchased the highly touted LG Steam washer about two years ago. I have had two professional attempts to level and balance it but it still vibrates like crazy and in the spin cycle throughout the house it sounds like a helicopter has landed on the roof. Is this common or did I just happen to get a lemon? Usually LG is great, but not this monster. When I asked the dealer he said it was because it was bought with the pedestal. Even after the recent leveling it has just become worse. Anyone else had this problem with the LG washer?

  525. Woody Says:

    Jim: Personally I’m still wondering what ‘real’ benefit steam has in in a washing machine. Let me know if you use it and what you use steam for.

    An easy test for your washer is to put a small clear glass of water on your dryer. Put you washer into a spin with no clothing in it. Assuming your dryer is not touching your washer, watch the water in the glass for vibration. This is a good indication whether your floor is the problem or the machine. If your floor is weak then the water in the glass on the dryer is going to do a pretty fine dance for you.

    If you feel the washer is the problem contact LG directly. If they don’t help you, get back to me and let me know what State you live in and I’ll disclose who the regional manager for that State is and you can contact him/her directly. Pedestals can be an issue for some owners with bad floors.

    Good luck

  526. Woody Says:

    Confucius say “Make your words soft and sweet. One day you may eat them”

    Of course Confucius has been given credit for many words that he didn’t say and those above may be some of them. But it is a wise thing to learn regardless of who they are attributed to because eating your words is difficult sometimes.

    For months now I have posted my opinions about washing machines on this strand. Many of the readers have been persuaded to purchase Bosch laundry because of my comments and input. For most of us these machines have performed well and will continue to perform well. I just installed a new set of Anthracite 500 series a week ago. So I have put my money where my mouth is. This is my last set of Bosch though. Why you ask?

    Today I learned from a reliable source that by the end of 2011 Bosch will no longer manufacture the Bosch Vison laundry currently assembled in the USA. The smaller compact laundry (Axxis) will still be available.

    I was told that replacement parts would still be made available for 10 years for those machines already sold. The reason for this termination is simply that Bosch can’t compete profitably with the Korean brands LG, Samsung and others. Bosch will continue to sell all their other current home appliances, especially their highly rated dishwasher.

    It’s a sad day because what could be and should be the most sought after equipment for your laundry room is going to disappear. This mostly because we as consumers could not or would not step up and purchase a higher quality laundry pair mostly because of price. Our choices have been diminished today and the search begins for a new #1. With the choices currently out there this may be a very difficult task. I’m sure the BCS of consumers, Consumer Reports, will guide many of us to their favorite brand that uses ¼ cup less water rather than highly rate something else of a higher quality that will last twice as long, but hey! We can save the planet if we use ¼ cup less water (even if we have to toss the machine out every 5-6 years) right?

    I had earlier thought after reading about the problems that still continue between North and South Korea what would happen to our supply of machines and repair parts should war break out between those countries. Not a pretty thing to imagine.

    Anyway, I posted this so that if anyone reading this strand should be inclined to purchase a Bosch, they would at least know what the future may hold. And also you can most likely expect some really good deals on the remaining production. Right at the moment now though I don’t know if I own a classic or an Edsel. Perhaps BSH will change their minds, but I doubt it. If they do I’ll let you know and maybe I can chew on a few of these words.

  527. Dave in Toronto Says:

    Thanks for all your great advice here – and that of others too!

    Despite the news of Bosch not making and selling the Vision series after the end of this year (thanks for the warning), we just recently bought the Bosch Vision 500 model WFVC6450UC washer and were surprised to find that this specific model doesn’t have a cycle called “Delicates”. It has a Woolens/Handwash cycle but not delicates, the difference being that the Delicates cycle that other Bosch Vision 500 models do have, will wash clothes in cold water and spin at 600 RPM, 40 minute cycle.

    So, is there an easy way to translate the parameters of that Delicates cycle into the cycles and variables that the 6450 model does have? Salespeople just say “use the Woolens/Handwash cycle cycle”, but that’s with warm water, a 30 minute cycle and too slow a spin (400 RPM), for the delicates we have (skirts, dresses, blouses, etc.). Not sure who else to ask! thanks in advance!

  528. Woody Says:

    Dave: Can’t help you much except to say that the Woolens / Handwash cycle indicates that it is safe for silk if the items have the certain icon on them as mentioned in your use and care guide. These types of fabrics don’t hold much water so spinning them too fast isn’t necessary and could be detremental to them. If you ever owned a top loader in the past, most of those had a HIGH SPIN speed of 550 rpm. So 600 would be a pretty stong spin.

    Hope that helps somehow. Enjoy your Classic!

  529. Moira Says:

    So what happened to everyone on this thread?? I wasnted to know, Woody, if the WFVC5400UC was a decent enough Bosch? Our local Lowes has it for 699.00 and my husband is tried of me quoting this thread and just wants to get our purchase done. I sure learned A LOT from this website!

  530. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hi Moira,

    I don’t know about anyone else, but I have been hibernating, it was 70 yesterday and woke up to 6 inches of snow this morning UGH… I has been close to a year since I got my Bosch 6450 and I couldn’t be happier, good luck with your decision, I say just do ! :)

  531. Moira Says:

    Hello Nancy!

    Hope you are keeping warm!

    Well, as I said, I think my husband was so tired of all of this, so we went ahead and got the one at Lowes…with the 110.00 5-year warranty. That makes me feel a little bit more secure.

    I have to tell you a brief funny(??) story: My friend, Vickie, had an LG washer and dryer, and after five years, TWO WEEKS after the 5-year warranty expired, the washer broke. It was SO much money to repair it she was advised by the repair man to just get another washer. So she shopped and she shopped…she said she was mostly calling people including repair people, to ask advice. So she got a KENMORE. When I called her today to ask her about her new washer, which she got last year, she told me she had gotten a Kenmore because she wanted something better than LG…I broke the news to her that what she got could well have been an LG, or a Whirlpool or a Samsung. Interesting. Also, sadly enough, she did NOT get the warranty, so she is only covered for one year. I hope she got a good washer.

    Additionally, my washer was spewing out black stuff for MONTHS. I told my husband we needed to find the warranty and call Best Buy’s repair people (I had the Maytag Atlantis from Best Buy). Well he just kept turning a deaf ear thinking that I was just seeing, oh I don’t know, dust (I have been known to be fanatical about dirt) or something. Then I told him again and said we need to get the warranty out! Well he did not see it in the file, so without looking at the washer, he told me he could not find it. So I DID NOT go looking for it and then four days ago the thing broke totally and completely without spinning a load of levis. So I went and looked for the warranty, after my husband pulled the washer out from the small laundry room and saw that it was not just a small repair job. Well the warrant had EXPIRED in January 2011…so my procrastination along with my husband’s cost us 809.49 at Lowes today! But maybe we got a wonderful new washer!! It comes tomorrow and I AM NOT looking forward to reading the manual on it. I LOVE to read, but hate manuals. But I AM going to read it. Do not want to break my new washer.

    We live in Southern Cali and have had crazy weather here too! 91 degrees one day and then plunging to rain and the 50s and 60s.

    I hope Woody is OK and will NOT come back on this site and say he found something better than the Bosch, or that I got a bad model! Or if he DOES know of something better, I hope he tells us in less than 7 days cuz that is ALL I have to change my mind and send the washer back to Lowes.

    It was nice talking to you and reading all the threads…over 500 comments…it did not all stay in my head, but hopefully the pertinent information did!!

  532. Nancy Mc Says:


    Good girl for getting a Bosch !!! I think you will be pleased… oh by the way, mine did not come with a manual, I had to go on line, I downloaded mine to my desktop, I did not feel like printing it. It is easier for me to open up the computer and read rather than track my printed pages. You know how it goes, you put them in a save place, but then you cant remember where you put them LOL Keep us posted, I am sure Woody will be responding soon, he is like a bad penny, he just keeps showing up hehehe I miss his sense of humor

  533. Woody Says:

    Hi Guys and Gals,
    I guess no one read my post of January 22nd. I got ZERO comments on it and now someone misses me? Wish someone missed me at home but once they have the paycheck they don’t think about you till they run out.

    Very good buy you made Moira, very good. I think you should be happy. I am continuing to recommend the Bosch but it is a real delema for all of those in our company (30) who have put these machines in our homes, the homes our friends and neighbors and customers. We really don’t have a strong second option. So for those of us who have these well designed and efficient machines enjoy them why you can get them. Hopefully we can rely on the words of the President of Bosch North America that replacement parts will continue to be available for a long time. (He didn’t say at what price though).

    The sunami in Japan just reinforced my thinking that depending on Japan, Korea and China for our supplies of goods is just a bad, bad thing for all of us. We need more USA manufactured products but that isn’t going to change until we can be more competitive in the wage arena and that isn’t going to happen until our government quits taxing every d*** thing they can think of. They apparently never read or heard the story of the goose that lays the golden eggs.

    Nancy, that snow you just got is how God saves the Utahn’s a lot of money having to call the tree trimmers. The weak branches just plummet to the ground when that wet snow lands on them, leaving the stronger ones. Sort of a natural selection process.

    Until next time.

  534. Nancy Mc Says:

    I did read your post in Jan Woody, I just didn’t have a comment ( Imagine that LOL ) As far as the snow goes, a 30ft tree across the street split in half because of the snow, and on my way to work this morning 300 E looked like a war zone with all the downed branches. I never thought of it saving people money, but where or where do they put them ? I can remember 1 year ago so excited about moving to Ut, getting out of the heat of Phoenix, now I am tired of the snow, what was I thinking ?!?! I just hope my Bosch lasts a long long time or you know we will be calling you hehehe

  535. Moira Says:

    Well we hooked up the Bosch and we were leaking. I guess we did not tighten the outgoing hose tight enough. So we tightened it, gonna dry up the floor and try again. The delivery people did not bring the hose clamp, so we used one we had. Is there a SPECIAL hose clamp Woody?? Also, the front piece that has the tray on the left for soap etc., well it is a little loose on the right. Should I have the repair people look at that?? it does not seem normal to me…like it is loose and got bumped (floor model) at some point. I did not watch closely while the guys brought it in….Just not sure. Please give me your most excellent opinion Woody. I am in the process of reading the manual (I hate manual reading) so I know how to operate it…but we have to stop the leak out of the hose at the back…and get to where we can try a load of laundry!

    I read all your post, Woody, all about how we should be able to get parts for 10 years and all (no price guarantees, but I got a five-year warranty). Also that you will have a hard time to find a replacement recommendation.

    Thanks so much!!

  536. Woody Says:

    Moria: Sorry to hear you got off to a bad start. YES, there is a clamp provided by Bosch for the drain hose. Any good clamp will work but be careful not to overtighten it.

    My advice is that ANYTIME you have a new product and you have a concern about fit and finish, strange noises, anything! Call the authorized service company and have them check it out. Bosch will pay one customer education call on their appliances and they have a 30 day cosmetic policy. At least that is how we do it here. We are a Certified Lowes service provider and they want their customer and the products they sell taken care of so you will come back and also talk highly about them.

    Thank you to everyone who has put trust in my opinion(s). I hope always that none of those opinions will let you down.

  537. Moira Says:

    Thanks so much Woody. We are now on our third load of laundry, experimenting so we get familiar with how to use it! No more water leaks. We will call for Lowes to send someone out to check everything out and hopefully educate us on anything we do not get figured out. You have been GREAT!! Thanks so much!

    Time for me to get back to work!

    Have a good week everyone.

  538. Nell Cussen Says:

    Many thanks for this article. I’d also like to mention that it can often be hard if you find yourself in school and starting out to create a long credit score. There are many individuals who are only trying to make it through and have a lengthy or favourable credit history is often a difficult thing to have.

  539. Nari Says:

    I have had my white bosch pair for 4months now and its working like a dream. No problems so far. Seriously, doing laundry is a pleasure now! Have to thank Woody and other people on this thread for loads of helpful info.
    Just want to ask Nancy about the 1 and half tbsp of HD detergent for doing laundry that her repairman recommended, should I use the same amount of one and a half tbsp for all kinds of loads, big small or extra small?
    Besides following the readers’ manual maintanance care, is there anything else at all I can do to ensure the machines performance and conditions? want to take good care of my machines =]

  540. Laurel Ankerstein Says:

    I am looking for a new washer/dryer. I have read your notes and wonder if I should buy the Bosch brand when they will not be made after the new year? What do you think of the steam LG models?

  541. Nancy Mc Says:

    Nari that is a good question about the HE laundry soap, I just use a little less for smaller loads. I just don’t exceed 1&1/2 Tbls, just make sure it is HE, I use the powder now. I don’t regret for a minute my purchase. I have learned to love the mist cycles, use them all the time now. And still love my job, yea me :)

  542. woody Says:

    Laurel :
    That is a difficult decision right now. Frankly I am not comforatable with LG right now or Samsung. I just have a feeling we are making ourselves overly dependent on Korea. LG for example has their entire parts and technical assistance set up in Alambama. With the recent tornados we have no technical support and limited parts. Whirlpool for example though has parts distribution centers across the USA and tech support in each time zone so they aren’t shut down the same way due to weather or other unforeseen problems.

    I also don’t find LG very customer friendly once the warranty is over. And I have to ask the question “why do you need steam in a washer?” The mist cycles in dryers are useable features but the washer!

    I, like others who have purchased love our Bosch machines. I am just hopeful there will be enough support for the products in the future or that the machines don’t need much if anything.

    My opionion is that if I could not buy a Bosch today, I would choose one of the Whirlpool brands i.e. Whirlpool, Maytag or Amana.

    Let us know how you do and your experience.

  543. jennifer L Says:


    i am looking for a washer and dryer *(used) since my budget is dictating price point. Is there an older model anyone would recommend for both washer/dryer? Looking to spend under $600 if i can get away with it. there is someone who is selling a Neptune Front loader (set) for $600 (2007) but everything i read is telling me to run from their class action suit from mold issues. It rains alot in Oregon and Mold is part of the decor here.

  544. Nancy Mc Says:

    Hi all, I can not believe I have had my Bosch washer and dryer for a year now, I still love them and have no problems. Speaking of Bosch they also make windshield wipers ! I bought some 2 years ago and WOW is all I can say, they are so quiet and work great, kind of expensive, around $20 a piece, they are NOT sold as pairs, but believe me you wont regret buying them. Woody, is it the same maker as my washer and dryer ?

  545. woody Says:

    Bosch is a big name throughout the world and they make many products. Their parent company is Siemens corporation (Germany). Lots of automotive products in the Bosch family as well as small and large kitchen appliances and power tools. Siemens also owns Bosch, Thermador and Gaggenau. They are all under the umbrella of BSHG. Headquarters for BSHG are in Huntington Beach California. Most of the appliances are manufactured in NewBern North Carolina.

    That’s a mouthful.

  546. Sue Says:

    Finally ready to bite the bullet (we’ve had a spate of appliance deaths this season — HVAC, fridge) on replacing the washer/dryer.

    Am I better off buying the Axxis+ than the 500 series at this point? We’re a family of 3 and not getting any larger.

  547. Woody Says:

    The Axxis is a good product and makes a good 2nd washer and dryer or if you need space. Personally I would buy a “full size” product if your needs don’t fit the first two criteria.

  548. Sue Says:

    Thanks, Woody! My concern about the 500 series was that I thought they were the ones being discontinued or am I wrong about that?

    And are the 500s stackable? I think I’ve seen conflicting info on that.

  549. Woody Says:

    The 500 series are going away. You will be buying either a clssic or an Edsel :) There is a stacking kit it is a WTZ1600 (white).

    You should be able to find a 500 or 800 series at some pretty reasonable prices. President of BSH said they would maintain a repair parts stock for at least 10 years. If you like the AXXIS I have a new set: Model wte86300us and the was24460uc for $1275 (no sales tax) but you would have to pay shipping. There is also a stacking kit for those (wtz11300uc , has a pull out tray)
    Product is new with a full warranty. It was on display for one day at a builer show of energy efficient appliances.

  550. Alex Says:

    Hi Woody ,
    spent couple of hrs reading this forum .. was looking to get a new washer and did some research on LG .. terrible service .. so after reading ur suggestions i decided to go out and get a full size Bosch .. only to discover that Bosch will stop selling them and concentrate on compact size (yes I know parts will be available of 10 years). Saw the Axxis nice machine but to small … so I’m back into considering other brands .. Samsung, Whirpool .. what would you suggest?

    PS I’m not disputing price, I’m ready to pay a bit more for quality but I can’t justify for example a Miele even if the quality is great …

  551. Woody Says:

    My response dated:
    woody Says:
    May 5th, 2011 at 4:59 pm
    Laurel :
    That is a difficult decision right now. Frankly I am not comforatable with LG right now or Samsung. I just have a feeling we are making ourselves overly dependent on Korea. LG for example has their entire parts and technical assistance set up in Alambama. With the recent tornados we have no technical support and limited parts. Whirlpool for example though has parts distribution centers across the USA and tech support in each time zone so they aren’t shut down the same way due to weather or other unforeseen problems.

    I also don’t find LG very customer friendly once the warranty is over.

    My opionion is that if I could not buy a Bosch today, I would choose one of the Whirlpool brands i.e. Whirlpool, Maytag or Amana.

    Let us know how you do and your experience.

    PS: I’d still buy the Bosch if I could find a good deal on one. Anything you purchase right now hasn’t shown a track record or making it 10 years yet other than the problamatic Maytag Neptunes and the early Whrilpool duets.

  552. Moira Says:

    Hello Everyone.

    I have a question. I got the Bosch and really like it. One thing, this is laundry related. I like white towels and washcloths, but once they have been washed a couple of times, they look dingy. I used bleach, tried vinegar, and all to no avail. Any ideas how I can keep the whites white?? I have used tide liquid as well as several other brands. It seeems once a washcloth has taken off mascara, it is dingy forever. I have considered getting colored washcloths, but really prefer white. Thanks for any help you wonderful readers and commenters can provide!

  553. Woody Says:

    Graying can be caused by a number of factors. Too much or too little detergent. Depending on the model your Bosch should have a “sanitary” temp boost or other cycle which heats water to help whites get whiter.

    If you are washing whites with anything that has elastic too hot of water can cause the elastic to break down and cause gray. If your product is under warranty I would suggest you find the authorized service company and have them come out and make sure the machine is operating properly.

  554. Mac Says:

    Wow…I just came in from washer and dryer shopping and am totally confused. I recently went through a divorce and sold the house. The buyer asked me to throw in the Whirlpool washer/dryer we have had for 12 years with no problems. I just do not remember what model as I never have done a load of laundry until recently LOL.(Please, no hate replys) But reading these posts is freakin me out. I bought a new home and need to find something soon. According to Woody, Bosch seems to be the ticket but they appear to be a tad on the high priced side of things. I wanted a front loader set because they look great but I think I am going to stay away from those. My friend bought a new LG set a couple weeks ago and he has had the tech out twice. Now he is taking them back to Sears saying they are junk. I guess I will go back to my Whirlpool and buy the most affordable and hope for the best. One question to Woody…do you work for Bosch or are you just totally sold on them?

  555. Woody Says:

    I own a service company and my family is been in the appliance business since the early 1900′s. I am third generation. My company is an authorized service agency for many, many brands. I have 15 technicians. My opinions are based upon my experience as a tech, and from the customers who purchase and use these brands and their feedback both good and bad. We do not actively sell any brand.

    Bosch is leaving the large laundry business for now because America won’t pay for quality because the customers deem it too expensive and because the Koreans and China are dumping product in the USA to remove competition the same way Japan and Korea put all the electronics companies out of business like Zenith, Sylvania, Magnavox, RCA etc.

    We Americans have paid a price for our decisions. As long as we have the attitude that quality isn’t worth paying for then LG, Samsung, Haier and others will thrive. I doubt my little dissertations will change that either.

    If you can find a Whirlpool direct drive washer and matching dryer they will most likely fit the needs of a single guy. Sorry to hear about the divorce.

  556. appliancejournal Says:

    Sorry for all the spam comments. All have been removed! :)

  557. Alex Says:

    Hey Woody,
    hope u r well .. So .. after 10 days of researching and asking around to friends .. I decided to go with Bosch even knowing the products are end of life .. I went to different stores, some of them like TASCO in Toronto where i got very rude service just because i was trying to negotiate the price ..
    This morning I was about to order the 5440 washer at a local store when i decided to stop one more time at Lowes and ask them .. lucky enough .. they had a 50% off on one appliance if u were buying washer and dryer .. so in the end i decided to change both since my Frigidaire dryer was 11 years old .. they matched the lower prices i found .. so for $1400 i got Washer (5440) and Dryer (5330) .. got the 5 year warranty for $179 (for both appliances) and that will cover lemon machines too .. (3 times same problems) …

    Delivery and installation for $50 in one week ..

    I feel better .. :) thanks … I will tell report about the status of the machines so people can have a better understanding

    have a good one

  558. Trisha Says:

    Last year, with Woody’s help, we WANTED Bosch W & D set. However, my husband fixed my machines. Now, I want to start using SOAP NUTS – more natural. Supposedly great for front loaders – low suds. I can’t use powders (SEPTIC).

    With Soap Nuts, hot water is most recommended. I don’t use hot water often because our hard water clogs our heating coil. But I remember Woody saying that the Bosch HEATS the water – (good for coil and the Soap Nuts).

    With July 4th sales, do you think there will by any Bosches left to sell?

    Thank you all, especially Woody for all you’ve taught me. I wish you all a Happy and Safe July 4th Weekend!

  559. Andre Says:

    Very insightful I am looking for new washer and dryer sold my house and my appliances. Need a new set and want front loaders, price is a bit of an not issue but not too crazy. Looking to spend between 1200-1700 for both. I need these soon so I’m trying to do as much reserch as possible.

    Thanks for everyone’s help

  560. Woody Says:

    @Trisha: There is a guy in Sandy Utah (Just a couple of miles from Salt Lake City) who has a number of WFVC6450 Bosch washers with matching dryers for $1299 for a set (he will only sell sets). His name is Jim and his number is 801 514 7748.

  561. Mac Says:

    Well, Like an idiot, I let the salesman at Sears talk me into a LG Waveforce washer with matching dryer. 2 weeks and the washer already failed. I am heading back to Sears to tell that salesman to “Stick it” and buy the Whirlpool set. I am a little afraid that I still may have an issue but what else to do?

  562. Woody Says:

    Sorry to hear than Mac…. But don’t blame the sales person, he just tells you what he has learned and been taught. None of these sales persons have any experience in parts and service so how could they know?

    It’s getting really hard to know what any of us should buy. Whatever you do make sure you use the correct detergents and the right amounts of detergents. Good luck!

  563. Gee Says:

    I am moving into an apartment with no washer dryer connections. :-( After living with a washer and dryer I vowed to never go back to the laundromat again. I want to purchase a portable washer and dryer so I can just hook it up to the bathroom or kitchen sink. I would need it to be preferably 1 to 2 cubic ft. At first I was leaning towards Haier because it was the cheapest but have seen lots of good and lots of bad (as with anything I guess). So I started looking at higher end and more popular brands… kenmore, maytag, etc. Has anyone had a long term good experience owning or working with portable washers?? I dont mind hang drying my clothes since I do that with most of my garments anyway but please some advice on a portable washer???

  564. drc04 Says:

    Woodyyyyy!!!! I iam in the research phase before buying a new washer and dryer set. I’ve read too many unsatisfied comments about the front load washers to go in that direction (mold buildup, funky smell, eternal wash cycles, etc). I’ve always had top loading machines and like the simple philosophy of “less is more” when it comes to “bells & whistles”. With that said, I keep reading about BOSCH equipment and am tempted to wander in that direction (if I can find a good buy). I’m not comfortable with the HE appliances promoting “less is more”. But I’m old school and have difficulty wrapping my mind around this concept. I insist on extra large capacity as I am a clean-a-phobe and EVERYTHING gets washed. What would you recommend in my case? If more info is needed I’m happy to oblige! Thanks!

  565. Woody Says:

    Dear clean-a-phobe,
    Large capacity = front loader
    HE = highly concentrated low, low suds
    Funky smell = customer instruction, education, failure to use HE detergents
    Bosch is closing out the Vision laundry. You should be able to find a good buy.
    Top loader? = I would try a Whirlpool VMW or just buy their old direct drive machine

  566. josieandmaddie Says:

    Thanks for all of the input … I am so confused and now scared to go out shopping for a new washer and dryer. After 25 years with my Whirlpool Heavy Duty set I have to say farewell. It’s just the two of us, but I have two big dogs and wash the bedspreads regularly so I need a large washer, what would you buy?

  567. Edna Says:

    I had decided on the Bosch until I heard the 27″ line was being discontinued (although, interestingly enough, some stores are aware of it but most are telling me that only the 800 seris is being discontinued. So no real sales yet, but my 24 year old Eatons Viking set has quit so I can’t wait for the sales.

    I have to confess that I am finding this a little overwhelming, trying to balance cost with quality, with a machine that hopefully will last more than the 7-10 years I keep seeing.

    Woody – do you have any experience with the Crosley, which is apparently USA made. I live in Western Canada but our smaller appliance stores still carry this brand. I know of several people that have the top-load agitator models from many years ago and they are still going strong (and they had families of 7-8 people so the machines saw a lot of use). But I have found only one review on their front loaders, and it only said that no customer had reported any issues – nothing about performance good or bad.

    Your thoughts?


  568. Woody Says:

    Crosley is a brand name like Kenmore which is simply a name on someone else’s product. Crosley does not manufacture anything.

    All the Bosch 27″ laundry is being phased out. You might buy and Edsel or you might be buying a classic. You should be able to find some very good pricing on a Bosch.

    I can’t help much more than that. I’m not seriously sold on anything else out there right now.

  569. Edna Says:

    Thanks Woody – I am so glad I decided to check with you. I was told that Crosley was made in NC, USA – so they lied to me!

    The best price I can find on a Bosch is the 6450 washer paired with a 5330 dryer for $2,400 CDN ($2,544 USD, noting that our dollar is currently above PAR). The 800 series is $3,188 CDN ($3,379 USD). Both are without pedestals, which would be an additional $199.00 CDN each. I know you said that most people don’t use all the bells and whistles in the 800 series so I was not looking for it – it just happened to be the only model that particular store had.

    I have visited or phoned pretty much every store in the city and, with the exception of one store, they are telling me that Bosch is NOT discontinuing the 27″ line (they are quite emphatic) and that they don’t know where I would have heard that. I absolutely believe YOU, but because that is what they are telling me, they will not deal on the price, and none are on sale. Even the one store that did tell me the Bosch 27″ line is being discontinued (and impressively, they volunteered the information) have not decreased their prices. I am not sure whether the other stores honestly don’t know that they are being discontinued, or whether they are just pretending not to so they can continue to sell the appliances at full price.

    As an aside, I have phoned several appliance repairmen after noting your comments regarding poor customer service for some brands and the inability to get parts for others, as it seemed prudent to ensure that the appliances I do buy can be reasonably quickly serviced if needed. Being from Western Canada (Edmonton, Alberta) I was not sure how much of the issue is regional, and wondered if we might have even more problems that you do. Everything I was told was pretty much verbatim what you have said, so the issues are clearly not regional. Many will not deal with LG (beligerant is a word that came up more than once). They say that Samsung is a pretty good machine BUT when they do need parts they take a MINIMUM of 2-3 weeks to come in. And they have seen an increase in the number of repair calls they receive from people that have bought the newer Sears Kenmore appliances (they all say that the older ones that were made by Whirlpool are good, but for the last 5 years or so the problems have increased dramatically. From what you have said, this would seem to coincide with the move to being made by Frigidaire (and one gentleman told me to run screaming in the opposite direction if anyone tried to give me, let alone sell me, one of those), followed by LG and Samsung. Bosch on the other hand, has few service calls and if they do need a part there is a distributor in Edmonton, so with a few exceptions they can get parts in 2 days. Whirlpool is also easy to get part for up here.

    Anyway, my options appear to be:
    1. Buy the Bosch at full price. Are you impressed enough by this brand to suggest this? I would be gambling on the brand being good enough that the lack of parts after 10 years would not be an issue – a gamble I would take without hesitation if I could buy the machines on sale, but if I have to pay full price…….not as sure. Would you?? And I do note that any brand I bought could also be discontinued at any time – we can’t seem to rely on anything being here for the long haul anymore.

    2. Use a laundromat for a while and see if the Bosch starts to go on sale in the next month or so.

    3. Buy another brand – I note that on several occasions you have mentioed the Whirlpool group as an second line alternative – I have looked at a Whirlopool HT Duet and Maytag Bravo (the toploade HE). Of those two, which do you prefer?

    And finally, if I do decide to go with a full-price Bosch, would you recommnend that I purchase the 5-year extended warranty for $150.00 CDN per machine?

    Thank you.

  570. Woody Says:

    Save the $150 warranty on each unit for future us. I rarely suggest people buy service contracts. 1st they have you money for free for at least one year. 2nd it limits who you can have repair the machines if they break.

    Personally I wouldn’t want to pay that much for the Bosch when you can buy them here for $1800 a set on sale. In fact I have seen them as low as $1300 from some small retailers who do clearance.

    If I was in Canada I’d help you out. All things considered I’d go with the Whirlpool unless you can find a way to get the Bosch for less.

  571. Cheryl Says:

    I have a Bosch washer and dryer. The Dryer sucks. So far, caught fire twice and need two cycles to dry anything :(

  572. Cheryl Says:

    Oh- they are 4 yrs old.

  573. Cheryl Says:

    By the way, I live in Edmonton too. Try Trail Appliances- they may have Bosch if that is what you really want. I have the extended warranty “thank god” because of all the issues. (also had the washer fixed because the rubber ring flew off one day). Since fire #2 was today and we Canadians have a long weekend, I will see if they fix it umdr warranty. Otherwise, back to shoppong for a new set…..

  574. John Says:

    We bought a Vision 500 set last November. Outside of one initial issue with a defective washer electric door latch (which was quickly replaced, no issues since) we’ve had no issues and are very pleased with the purchase.

    The dryer does take some getting used to if this is your first 21st century purchase (our old ones was a circa 1990 Maytag). We’ve found that you have to insure the clothes come out of the washer well spun and very dry. This means you must put a decent size load into the washer or else it will not spin properly. E.g., washing one towel will not work well, you may end up with residual water in the washer, see the manual on this issue.) Secondly, these dryers are designed to dry with much less heat by design, so as to not wear out your clothes so fast by over-drying them. So for when washing things like bedsheets, etc., we will use Cotton/Extra Dry which works well.

    For the gas dryer, I opted not to use flexible ducting, but went with a more expensive solid duct and few bends.

    We did buy an extrended warranty for the set, and expect that if parts are available for 10 years if needed, we’ll enjoy this set for years to come, even though they stopped assembling these in the U.S.

  575. Lori Says:

    Hi Woody!

    Haven’t written in a while. I have my Bosch 800 series that I bought one year ago. I DID get a good sale on it. Now I hear that the series will be discontinued. I don’t know if I should be kicking myself or not. However, I have had NO problems with my machines. My clothes get cleaner and don’t come out of the dryer feeling baked. The wrinkles refresh cycle in the dryer is nice too. Hope all is well.



  576. woody Says:

    I replaced my set before they were all gone. I’m considering it a “classic”. I can’t disclose any details right now but the “other” choices you could have made have some issues that would be tragic. The mfg is going to be doing a recall (again this is not Bosch) but the problem is on going. So until someone steps up and puts some quality in the appliances they are building I don’t know what to tell people to do.

    On a previous post by Cheryl, she either has a bad vent going out of her home or some other duct problem. Anytime a dryer takes too long to dry it is generally the venting in some way. This would also lead to the “fires” she has had, very rare in a well vented dryer. If I live in Edmunton I’d drop by and check it out but where I’m at the trip charge would be too much :)

  577. freeskakel Says:

    We’ll see. You can buy or keep repairing your old reliable top-load washer and dryer proven conventional design (eg Whirlpool top load direct drive model, same design since 1985). A washer and dryer cost about $ 750 below zero, and the dent. On average both have a duration of 80-10 years, sometimes more, before needing major repair. When they break, you can easily get parts at a reasonable cost of repair and any technology (or even yourself, if you can use hand tools) can fix the washer / dryer.

    Or you can pay $ 1000 – $ 2200 or more for a new, color-coordinated high-efficiency washer consumer and dryer set that saves electricity and water. But because the design of high-spin puts more load on the bearings, due to electronic controls (generally originated in China) are part of the design, which only last about five years before the overhaul. When you need repair, just a new power board can cost between $ 500-600 – If you do not mind waiting a few weeks for the parties. Or parties can no longer be stored by it at all, because the model of constant redesign. So pay another $ 1000 – $ 2000 for a new pairing washer / dryer set – every five years or less.

    What method that saves the most money in the long term? Wise Up, People?

  578. John Says:

    I have pc motherboards made “in China” that have been running at 150 F for 8 years almost 24 hours per day. That is a specious argument.

    Wise up people, it still boils down to quality, and Bosch made/makes a quality product that’s why it costs what it does. All you have to do is look at German automakers and their current success to know that quality still sells.

  579. Edna Says:


    I had checked out Trail Appliances – they no longer carry Bosch laundry appliances and are pushing the LG. THEY say the LG issues are pretty much resolved now, but……. They both sell and service the LG and have a LG WM2901 pair, normally $3,300 CDN, on sale for $1,999 (plus $249 each for pedestals). They have other models but this is the best value right now. They also have the Whirlpool Duet which is what I went to look at. The WFW94HEX is on sale for $2099 for the pair, plus $199 each for pedestals. They have 2 other models but this one is the best value right now.

    The appliance store in Stony Plain is now selling a Bosch 500 series washer (not sure which model, and they can no longer get the 6450) and the 5330 dryer for $1,999 CDN but can no longer get the pedestals; this is one of the stores that just last week said that Bosch was NOT being discontinued – they only found out a few days ago that they WERE. But no pedestals is not an option for me as they would be too low. Their supplier brings them in from British Columbia (near Vancouver). They also like the LG, and do their own servicing, even during the 1st year that is covered by the manufacturer. That makes me a little more comfortable as I would not be trying to find a repairman that would work on them, but they say parts can take 2-3 weeks to get.

    I’m “laundromatting” it for now and still looking.

  580. Edna Says:

    Just found a Bosch 8440 washer paired with a 8330 dryer. Future shop has decreased the price to $2,500 CDN (the only model they have). So then I checked out Sears again ( this is also the only model they have) – they were still $3,200 CDN!!. When I looked surprised they asked if I had seen them cheaper elsewhere. I told them Future Shop’s price and the next thing I knew they had dropped their price to $2300 for the pair! But they don’t have the pedestals either.

    So, I can get the 500 series for $1,900 + $500 for pedestals = $2,400, or the 800 series for $2,300 + pedestals = $2,800. I still can’t find anyone that has the 6450, which I think I would actually prefer as it has both a quick full cycle at 45 minutes, and a quick light cycle at 20 minutes which I think I would find more useful that the woolen cycle etc that the 8440 has (it has the quick full cycle, but not a quick light cycle). I am going to see if Future shop has the pedestals IN the store, and if they will fit in my car. If I have to order them and pay a separate delivery fee it will get a little silly and expensive with 2 delivery fees (washer/dryer and then pedestals from a different place).

    OR, go to the Whirlpool Duet which is $2100 + $400 for pedestals = $2500

    Is the Bosch 8840 enough of a superior machine to justify the $300 cost difference (even with the discount the Bosch 8440 is more expensive than the Whirlpool)?

    The Whirlpool will allow me to choose wash temperature and spin speeds on most cycles (with some limitations which make sense – i.e. delicate will not let you choose anything higher than a warm temp and medium spin). The Bosch will only allow me to choose the wash temp on cottons and perma press, and from what I can tell, I can’t change the spin speeds at all. Not sure whether that is an issue or not.

    Does anyone have any thoughts / opinions?

  581. Edna Says:

    Just realized the 8440 has a 3.3 cu ft drum and the 6450 has a 4.4 cu ft drum. The 6450 seems to be the better washer yet costs more. Think I will keep looking for a 6450.

  582. woody Says:

    $1299 for a set. WFVC6450 and WTVC6330 $99.95 each for pedestals. White only. Sorry, got to come to the good ol’ USA though.

  583. Edna Says:

    correction. 6450 seems to be the better machine, but costs LESS than the 8440. Not sure why the 8440 is more??

  584. Edna Says:


    O. M. G. – that is only $1, 467 CDN for the whole set, including pedestals. And the best I could do was $2,800 with a 5330 dryer!! Maybe I need to make a run down to Montana.

    Any idea what a Whirlpool Duet WFW94HEX would cost? Trying to put in in context with the Bosh in USD.

  585. Sebrina Prence Says:

    and has a dismal 64kbps bit rate. If this changes, then it will somewhat negate this advantage for the Zune,

  586. Maggie Says:

    Thanks to all who have posted their insight regarding the Bosch washer/dryer appliances!

    I have a 5 year old Samsung washer that is leaking water into the pedestal. I have never liked the washer, but blame myself for not taking seriously the importance of the use of HE detergents (1 – 1 1/2 tablespoons/load). By using the correct amount of HE liquid detergent, the moldy smell has gone away and the clothes spin properly. I also make sure I wash “like” clothes together and use the proper setting. Before, I washed most everything on “quick wash”, thinking I was saving time and money.

    Since the 5 year warranty on my Samsung set expires next month, I have been spending hours researching washers and dryers. I don’t want to regret another purchase!

    I checked the thread, but couldn’t find much info comparing the Bosch washer/dryer models 6450 & 4400 sets.

    Any help is greatly appreciated!

  587. Woody Says:

    Maggie: A leak shouldn’t necessarily mean a new washer. I’d check out the washer first.

    It’s going to be hard to compare the Bosch models right now because they are discontinuing their Vision line. If you live anywhere near an R.C. Willey store they will be having a HUGE sale on Bosch 6450 laundry for labor day. Something like $1099 for a set and a really low price if not free for the pedestals.

    Otherwise I would wait about 6 – 12 months before I bought anything else. Changes are coming (again)!

  588. Maggie Says:

    Thanks Woody! I live in Sandy, and will check out RC Willey.

    Last time the service tech took off the top of the washer, there was rust everywhere. I worry what effect that will have down the road.

    Again, I blame myself for my ignorance regarding HE technology. After owning the Samsung set for 5 years, I am just now reading the manual!

    I just got finished writing notes in Sharpie on my HE detergent, fabric softener, chorine bleach, and color-safe bleach bottle handles, listing the correct way to use each, per the manual. I also have a chart on what each cycle does, and what options to choose.

    My Samsung 306BHW washer has the SilverCare feature. I used it for the first time today (since I finally read the manual…) Woody, do you think that the SiverCare ‘silver ions’ really sanitize the laundry? Sounds a bit space age to me, but as mentioned, I am a bit ignorant….

    Thank you!

  589. Moira Says:

    hello everyone. my refrigerator just broke and now I have to go out and buy a new 1 and I wondered if anybody can steer me in a good direction. over many years I have discovered that I hate the side by side and I’d like a 3 door refrigerator with the freezer on the bottom and I am just hoping that someonecould make a recommendation for a good brand that is going to hold up and not break in the first few months or years. woody I know your area of expertise is washing machine but I hope that someone who read this site might have some helpful information that will help me to pick the best frig for a reasonable price. thank you so much!

  590. Woody Says:

    1st make sure ANY brand you are considering has at least one good service company who will support the brand in your area. Samsung and LG have a lot of refrigerators like you mention but in some areas the service people don’t like to work on those brands. We just did a follow-up call on an LG factory service tech and found he had installed the compressor tubing backwards. After we got that fixed we found it never needed the compressor in the first place.

    The best experience with have had with the French door models are the Whirlpool brands (Maytag, Whirlpool, KitchenAid and Amana) and the B26 model Bosch (again, make sure you have service in your area). Those would be my 1st choices.

  591. Moira Says:

    Thanks for the information Woody. I shopped yesterday, and it seems like two stores are really gung ho for the Samsung, and they feel they have good people for service. The smaller scratch and dent place had mostly stainless steel and kind of “stripped” looking frigerators…just wire baskets in the bottom and no place for drips. At Sears the salesman was so annoying and would not allow me to look without his running commentary, really put me off that place…he was a total car salesman, making all kinds of crazy promises with regard to price, slime and all. He also likes the Samsung, and the very expensive contract that is available. At Lowes the guy was very helpful when I had questions and although he really likes the Samsung and says JDPowers says it is most popular and has the least repair calls and that their repair ppl they sub out to have parts available, he was not pushy about it and happy to give me any printouts on frigs I wanted information on. This is always such a hassle to make a big purchase…I hate regrets!!! I am surprised no one else expressed an opinion on their own personal frig. I have seen that bottom freezers can be more money than side by side…but I am tired of not being able to see what is in the frig!

  592. Maggie Says:

    Hi Woody and all!

    I just bought the Bosch Vision Washer/6450, Dryer/6330 and pedestals at RC Willey for $1099! I’m so elated!

    I did get the 5 year extended warranties for $129/washer, $79/dryer.

    There was even an offer to purchase a Toshiba Camcorder for $20, (when you spend $599 or more).

    I also had a $50 coupon that RC Willey sent in the mail a few weeks ago that I was able to use, which help off-set the delivery charge of $59.

    Thanks goes the incredible time and energy that went into this thread! I would have never known about Bosch without all the great info!

  593. John Says:

    I have whilpool duet HT washer bought in march of 2009, On May 20 got a f71 code, washer will not come on. Called repair locally (out of warranty) Repairman came out and ordered ccu, 2 weeks wait for part, He came back out June 19 and replaced but said sometimes you have to replace the computer boards at the same time. Four days later after spending 400+ dollars, washer quit working with F70 code. I ordered on line the other computer boards and replaced, still no-work and then code f22…..door lock, Ordered door lock and replaced, still f22 and f70. While still in the 90 day part warranty for the ccu do you think If I called repair again that they would replace the ccu? With a total of 670 dollars spent is it work another service call or should I just junk them.
    Thanks, John

  594. Woody Says:

    Your Question is something that should be addressed with the service company and the Whirlpool customer care line.

  595. Rob Says:

    Our made-in-Newton-Iowa Maytag top-loading sud-saver washer (over 20 years old
    and never a single repair) and Kenmore gas dryer (maybe 10 years old, never needed repair) are working fine, but we’ve been wanting to get a stacked set to reclaim
    floorspace and take advantage of the water and energy savings from modern HE units.
    But we care about quality. With Bosch getting out of the business, there are
    fabulous deals to be had. We just bought the 6450 washer (Vision 500 series)
    and the 5530 gas dryer, plus the deluxe stacking kit with the pull-out shelf,
    for $1230 Cdn. (Plus tax.) Authorized dealer. Couldn’t pass up the opportunity
    to get the Bosch quality at such a price. Sales person told us that Bosch is committed
    to 17 years of inventory of repair parts. He said he’s been in the business for 20-odd
    years and his comments lined up pretty well with Woody’s. He owns Bosch, most of
    the store’s employees own Bosch; they are a multi-brand dealer so they have choice.
    Reasonably favourable comments on Whirlpool Duet Sport but not on the full-size Duet.
    Same advice as Woody on detergent, etc., etc.

    We actually went shopping for a Bosch dishwasher after the electronic control
    module in our made-in-Newton-Iowa Maytag MDB7000 dishwasher (1999) fried itself.
    Replacement part no longer available. Sure are happy that the sales guy mentioned
    the washer/dryer opportunity!


  596. nancy mc Says:

    Hello !!!! It has been 1 1/2 years since I got my Bosch washer and dryer and NO problems at all…. :)

  597. John Says:

    On Sept 12 I wrote about my Whirlpool He washer, since then the tech came back out and replaced the CCU again, 4 days later will not work again, The tech gave me a Whirlpool case #, I called Whirlpool and they wanted to send out another tech for $129, What customer service? I am now going to buy another washer, this time top loading. Whirlpool does not care about you, only their profit. No brands made by them will be in my home ever again. Next which manufacturer will prove me wrong about buying from them.

  598. Woody Says:

    @John…..John how about some details here please.
    Did you pay the first company?
    Do they not guarantee their work?
    Don’t you have some ownership in this because you were being a “do-it-yourself” service tech?

    Seems like the first company needs to help you out a little more, not Whirlpool. I do understand your frustration.

    Have you ever tried getting an authorization from another brand? Good luck! None of them are very willing to step up nowadays.

  599. John Says:

    Woody more details, here you are….6-22-11… tech called out f70 & 71 error codes machine will not go on and the door is locked. Tech came same day took apart machine and fixed the door lock(removed and put back in…. lock workes)ordered ccu and user interface (both parts may have to be replaced at same time per experence)returned 7-12-11 put both parts in, but took interaface back out because old one seemed to work fine with new ccu. returned interface to whirlpool. 7-22 machine will not come on even though I only used machine 1 time in this time period..total now spent $315 for parts,$152 for labor…467 total. Ordered interface form appliancezone 7-25 received 7-26 or 27 $208. Installed as per seeing the tech do the same. worked 1 time, door lock error f22. Ordered door lock from appliancezone 7-31, received 8-2 $68. Installed as per seeing the tech remove and replace. Called tech out again on 9-14 (part ccu still under warranty). Tech came back out 10-7 put new ccu in and machine worked ….only 2 times and again quit. Called tech back out 10-21, F71 F70 and C00 codes,(computers and door lock) Talked with whirlpool and gave me case # no charge. You know the rest as what Whirlpool was willing to do. He did say that the only thing left was to remove every other part in machine to test and replce. Sorry I have much to much in this to pay another tech $129 to do the same thing. Thanks

  600. woody Says:

    @John: Guess I don’t understand. When the tech did the first call and diagnosis do they not have some kind of guarantee? How did this turn into a do-it-yourself project. If you already paid them and that didn’t solve the problem most companies continue on till the problem is resolved. Just wondering?

  601. John Says:

    Woody, Tech was to charge me 329.95 for the user interface that he sent back but by his comments he said the interface usually has to be replaced when the ccu is, since I would be charged 68.50 for labor call when he got the part that would have been 398.45 for the call, I got the part for 207.00. As for the company carrying on to fix the problem, they wanted to continue to replace parts but I would not get any money back for the part installed since the error code said it was the ccu and it worked when he installed it, though they did replace it a second time. I guess that you believe that I would not be charged for any additional parts that were installed on my washer that was not under any other warranty.

  602. woody Says:

    @John: Thanks. Sounds like you need a different service company.

  603. new music hiphop Says:

    I do trust all the ideas you have introduced in your post. They’re really convincing and will definitely work. Nonetheless, the posts are very brief for newbies. Could you please lengthen them a little from next time? Thank you for the post.

  604. Chris Says:

    Hi Woody and Gang!
    Been following this whole thread recently and I have been fascinated by the discussion…far better than Consumer Report and some of the other washer/dryer discussion forums! Thank you!
    I am hoping that Woodybis still monitoring this forum as I am seeking his opinion…
    Just bought the Bosch Vision 300 washer and the Vision 500 dryer. I had trouble finding a 500 washer. Did I make a good decision Woody? I noticed how highly you spoke of the 500 series washer, so I just wanted to know how you felt about the 300 series washer. Much of a difference between the two? I ended up “caving” and purchased the extended warranty (up to 5 years) on the washer only…hoping that was a reasonably decent decision.
    I live in Ontario, Canada.

  605. woody Says:

    All good questions to ask BEFORE you buy the product.:)

    Remember: The moment of absolute certainty never arrives!

    You did just fine even finding them. I still hold the opinion you either own an Edsel or a Classic. I prefer to believe it’s a classic.

  606. Rob Says:

    Chris, see my posting of Sept 28 2011.
    I bought the Bosch washer dryer pair at T/A Appliance in Kitchener Ontario.
    They were still advertising the washer in their print ad in the local
    newspaper this week, in case any other south-western Ontario readers
    here are interested.

  607. Chris Says:

    Thanks, Woody!

    I believe they are classics! I had the delivery guys leave me the work of hooking up the new Bosch wsher and dryer. Everything is level, stable and running beautifully! Just got rid of a ten year old Fridgidaire Gallery washer and dryer…can’t get over how much quieter and more efficient the new Bosches operate! My wife does most of the laundry but I may become a “convert”…at least some of the time! :)

    It appears that it’s pretty important to use the recommended amount of laundry detergent (HE)…I’ll be careful. Does this also hold true for the fabric softener? Less seems to be better!

    Is it true that the major difference between the Bosch 300 and 500 washer is the number of various wash cycle options? I cannot seem to identify many other differences (other than rpms when spinning…seems to be a minimal difference).

    Thanks, again, Woody!

  608. Chris Says:

    Thanks for the information, Rob! Too bad I didn’t realize you were referring to a deal you got in SW Ontario when you posted on September 28. Sounds like you got a better deal than me, as I payed about $1650 for my pair. Still quite happy with my purchase and I was able to get it through a local independent here in London.

  609. eMCee2 Says:

    I have a Bosch front load washer (says 300/500/DLX series on the user manual). I suddenly started getting the E17 code.
    I managed to tip the unit (stacked with dryer) up enough to access the screws under the front lip that hold the front panel on. Then I opened up the discharge pump (found some crud in there), but ultimately my problem was solved by mopping up the water on the floor of the unit and especially underneath the white sensor mounted more or less front and centre in the unit. This must be the “aquastop” sensor. There’s a bit of styrofoam that floats on any small amount of water and when it does float it triggers a micro-switch. Wiped that all up, reassembled and no more E:17 code.
    Thanks Woody… you mentioned tipping the washer, and ultimately that helped me.

  610. lowricks Says:

    I have a Maytag Neptune washer Model#MAH9700AWW that will not go into spin cycle. It fills with water and it ill drain the water. When I put it in the service mode for the, quick spin test, it comes up with the diagnosis code 3E. How do I know if this is the control board or the motor?

  611. nancy mc Says:

    hey Gang,

    Woody you out there ??? Just to let everyone know my Bosch is still working great, no problems what so ever

  612. Chris Says:

    Hello, Nancy,
    I just joined the group on Dec. 29 and I am happy to report that my whole family loves our new Bosch washer and dryer! I have never really enjoyed doing the laundry until now! I can hardly believe that I just admitted that! Glad to read that you are enjoying your Bosch units. Great investments, eh?

  613. Chris Says:

    By the way, I tried the “Xxtra Sanitary” cycle on the washer a few weeks ago and I was very surprised to find out the length of time it took to complete the cycle. I believe it took over two hours. Is that normal? If not, might I be doing something wrong? Any practical suggestions would be appreciated.

  614. nancy mc Says:

    Hi Chris,

    I just tried my xtra sanitary wash this weekend and it took 2:12 minutes or something… I was surprised too… I also got a measuring spoon, Tablespoon, and measured out the 1 Tablespoon and I was surprised how small the amount is, I had just been eyeballing it for the year now, oops !! LOL

  615. Chris Says:

    Hi, again, Nancy!
    Yes, that length of time sounds about right. I don’t think I’ll be using that cleaning cycle very often…not very economical. Too bad!
    I have been trying to be very faithful to recommended amounts of liquid laundry detergent and fabric softener, due to some of the previous posts I have read. Good to read that you’ve come on board too.

  616. woody Says:

    Have you read what the X sanitary cycle does in your use and care book? It heats the water to a high temperature. Depending on your incoming water temperature that will add to the entire cycle. But it also keeps your machine from having any mold issues and has other benefits.

  617. nancy mc Says:

    WOODY !!!! oh crap, I had about 4 items in the wash when I did the xtra sanitary LOL no wonder they faded…. it is a safe bet that I did NOT read the manual, oops… Woody, did you answer Lowricks answer ?

  618. Hanh Says:

    I’ve just spent the last few hours reading all the comments and they have been so helpful. The only thing I’m disappointed about is that the Bosch Vision line will be discontinued and I was already convinced (and convinced my husband) that when we have the money, that’s what we’ll buy.

    Woody, if you can help us with our problem, it would be great. I realize that it would probably help you more to actually “see” it but perhaps you can help if I describe it to you. Starting about 10 months ago, our clothes have been falling apart. We have a top load Kenmore 80 series that came with the house when we bought it in 2004. When we realized what was happening about 4 or 5 months ago, we attributed it to the Ecos Magnolia Lily liquid detergent we had been using (as others have also complained about similar experiences with their clothes and linens). I also noticed that during that time, our washer started collecting residue along the wash line about 3 inches deep. After that, we changed to Charlie’s Soap (following the instructions carefully) but it was still doing the same thing. We have also tried other detergents like Country Save, Oxiclean, and a green version of “oxiclean” but they’re all doing the same thing. I even did research to find out what else could be causing this (water that is too cold to the dissolve or rinse out powder detergent) and started washing and rinsing everything in warm or hot since all of these detergents are powder. We are now starting to wonder if there is something wrong with the machine itself as the washer most likely was bought when the house was built, in 1997.

    Do you have any input on what we could be doing wrong or if there may be something wrong with the machine that is causing this? Our clothes and linens are still falling apart and we’re kind of tired of trying new detergents now.

  619. woody Says:

    Hanh: You seem to have done your homework on the causes. I am not familiar in our area with most of the brands you mention. Very unlikely it is your machine though. Water temperature, hardness, detergent. detergent amounts, minerals in the water etc could all be contributors. To give you an honest opinion I’d have to be there where I can measure, test, and observe. Proctor and Gamble and some of the other companies have some pretty good web sites that help you identify this type of problem and solve it.

  620. Rachel J. Says:

    Hi Woody, I also have spent the last couple hours entranced in all your helpful comments and feel like I’ve found a little gold mine here with your advice. If you have time, could you send some more advice for my situation? I saw that in August you suggested holding off on buying a bosch for awhile until their new line comes out in 6-12 mos. I’m in serious need of a new washer though, and could probably hold off a month or two at the most. It’s so laborious washing with a broken agitator, and I currently live so rural that getting someone out here to fix it is not much of an option. So, I am looking to buy in the Mesa Arizona or Tucson area, and I can’t find any stores that sell the Bosch, it looks like I’d have to buy it online. Do you know any good online places? Or am I missing somewhere that I could buy in a store? I don’t see any rebates through the bosch company right now either, is that something I could expect to see sometime soon? Is there any way to know exactly when they’re releasing the new line? If I have to buy before the new line comes out should I just shop Craig’s List for some Bosch models that are only 3 years old or so? Thanks so much!

  621. woody Says:

    Rachel J.: Keep reading dear. Some of the later posts.

    Due to all the cheap dumping of products into the USA by Samsung and LG, Bosch has discontinued manufacture of the Vision washer in the USA. Latest is that Whirlpool corporation has filed suit against these practices. Whirlpool already won one suit for the dumping of refrigerators in the USA from Korea and Mexico.

    If you can find a Bosch, buy it (my opinion). If not then my choice has filtered down to one of the Whirlpool brands Duet, Maytag or Amana front loaders.

  622. Hanh Says:

    Hi Woody,

    Thanks for the response.

    The detergents that I have been trying are low/no residue detergents that are gentle and good for people with sensitive skin. Prior to that, we were just using whatever Costco had. Now that I think about it, we’ve never really had clothes that were completely clean — bright and/or white, and stain-free. I live in the Denver, CO area but don’t really know about what kind of water we have here.

    I checked out Proctor and Gamble’s website but wasn’t able to find anything on there about washing machine residue. One thing we may try with our washer is run a vinegar and baking soda hot load just to “clean” all the gunk out. Perhaps that might work.

    The reason why I was wondering if what is happening could be due to the washer itself was because of this information that I found here:
    Let me know if this could be a possible cause of our problem. I don’t know the anatomy and physiology of a washing machine as well as you do so this is really all Greek to me.

    We may just end up calling an appliance repair person to come out and take a look at the washer but we’re a little reluctant to at this point (as we would rather just get a new washer) because we’re so tired of this problem we’ve been having, as all the money that we have spent on replacing clothes, rewashing our clothes after they’ve already been washed, and re-rinsing to get out the residue and such could have gone towards a washer that actually cleaned our clothes.

  623. woody Says:

    Hanh: Again, without something physical to work with I can’t help too much. There is a product called Afresh that might help clean out your machine. Most likely the products you have used in the past have had limit washability powers, combined with cold Denver water has left you with a problem. If you call for service in the Denver area my best recommendation would be for a company called BEST service or American Appliance. They both have great reputations.

  624. Moira Says:

    Hello Woody et. al.
    My sister has a problem. The Roper washing machine will agitate, but will not empty water and spin. The machine was a gift to her landlady by family and so MUST be repaired. My sister feels she has to handle/pay for it as she was the last one to use the washer when it stopped emptying and spinning. She does not have a truck or muscle to transport. So she must have someone come and repair it…lives in Hawaii in a little tiny apt. What is likely the problem and on top of service call of 100.00 what do you think labor and parts may possibly cost. So glad I have my Bosch! thanks to you!

  625. Moira Says:

    By the way Woody, she lives on Maui in Wailuku (sp?question just in case you know someone here!!

  626. Woody Says:

    I can actually repair that washer for FREE if she will just pay the trip charge from the mainland :)

    Consumer Reports suggested once that Roper has best frequency of repair record of any brand. That’s because NOBODY REPAIRS a Roper, they throw them away and buy new one’s because they didn’t cost that much to begin with! Sounds rude but true.

    Might just be something in the pump though. Anyone there handy with a few simple tools? If not I need the model number to help you further. :)

  627. Nancy B Says:

    Good morning, Woody and friends! I, like many others, have spent several hours reading the comments on washer/dryers. I can’t tell you how much I appreciate the time you’ve spent addressing this topic. My husband and I will be purchasing a new washer/dryer (stackable) in early summer for our new home. Based upon your recommendations I narrowed my choices to Bosch Axxis & Whirlpool Duets. I can’t seem to find Bosch Axxis gas dryers. Do they not make gas dryers in that model? I have found Vision gas dryers, but they might not be around when we’re ready to buy. Can I stack an Axxis washer with a Vision gas dryer? Probably not due to their difference in size… I appreciate any advice or info you can give me. Thank you!

  628. woody Says:

    Axxis is not made in gas (sorry). If you are going for the European size laundry also consider the Asko but make sure you have someone familiar with the product for service in your area.

    Personally if you can get a Bosch set at a decent price that is where I would suggest go and just buy them now. The Duet are the next best choice (my opinion)

  629. Nancy B Says:

    Woody, thank you so much for your advice. . . i’m on a Vision quest! I hope you are still available for advice when we start our kitchen remodel. I’ve written down your brand recommendations for refrigerators and they are probably all less expensive than the Liebherr I want, which will make my husband extremely happy! Take care.

  630. Nancy B Says:

    Woody . . . me again. You mentioned ASKO and I was off and running on that search instead of looking for the Bosch. Now I’m Totally-Confused-Girl! Is there a particular ASKO that you would recommend? We need stackables and prefer full-size units. There were sooo many to choose from. Or do you like the duets better than the ASKOs? Thanks again.

  631. marc Says:

    With all the talk about the Bosch 500 series, what’s the opinion on the 800 series? A local store has a floor model set for sale of the WFVC844PUC and the WFVC8530UC w/pedestals and I’m tempted to get it based on all the great feedback about Bosch machines.

    Woody, have you heard any good or bad on those units? I don’t know if I’d be able to find a good 500 set w/pedestals at this point! :)


  632. woody Says:

    Marc: Same machine just more features. If the price is right then go for it. The 800 series just had a lot of extras that many people would not use and so it was more costly for things you may or may not use. But there are some usable features if you are aware of them and use the functions the that is good value for you. The 500 series was just so packed with features that it made those machines the best value.

  633. marc Says:

    Thanks for the reply woody! I’m not sure what a good price is for a set but they’re asking $3200 for a blue set with pedestals. I’d love to find a 500 series but I can’t seem to locate a set w/pedestals at a great price like everyone else has! Do you happen to have any leads on a set that could be shipped? :)

  634. woody Says:

    $3200 sounds pretty steep for a set that will soon be NLA.

    Ship to where ????

  635. woody Says:

    $3200 sounds pretty steep for a set that will soon be NLA. But then they have quite a bit into that set if they didn’t buy it on a promotional.

    Ship to where ????

  636. marc Says:

    Hey Woody,

    I might be able to haggle them down, not sure yet until they open again on Tuesday. it would be going to area code 94131, the only caveat is that we would need to get something ASAP. :/

  637. Woody Says:

    There is an R C Willey store in Sacramento that had some Wfvc6330′s and some matching dryers for about $1300 a set plus half price pedestals and they might be able to ship a set to where you are.

  638. marc Says:

    Thanks Woody, I gave them a call and they do have them in stock but their sale price is different than what you mentioned ($1698 for 6450/6530 gas combo) and full price for the pedestals ($219/ea). They also don’t ship :/

    If it was $1520 for the entire set w/pedestals I’d probably make the drive up to get ‘em but as it is, probably not worth the time. Thanks for trying tho, if you happen to know of anyone willing to ship a set I’m all ears! :)


  639. woody Says:

    Check their ad on Presidents day. I think they are going to lower the price for that event even further. Good luck..

  640. marc Says:

    Maybe the $1300 is local to you Woody? If you have an advert or link maybe I can use my local store to match their pricing for your area. the presidents sale in my area only list the electric set at $1598 but does list the pedestals at $99/ea.


  641. woody Says:

    I called one of the sales people I know in Nevada. Their new ad will come out on Thursday. Hope that helps

  642. marc Says:

    Thanks for the info Woody! I’ll see if they have any updates on Thursday. They did add a few more sale pages today but their President’s Day price for the Bosch set is still at $1599. Fingers crossed….


  643. Nancy mc Says:

    Woody !! See me waving !!

    My Bosch wont drain the water out…. I washed 2 bathroom rugs and it wont go into a fast spin… I even put 3 towels in there with them and it still didnt spin fast… What am I to do ??

  644. woody Says:

    Most likely you have a “fur ball” in your pump :)
    Not extremely difficult to check out if you have some mechanical aptitude. On the Bosch it can be done from the front of the machine.

    I always appreciated customers who wash rubber backed or old frayed rugs. Usually good for a service call. Let me know if you need me to find you a good service company in the area. BTW my company was recently chosen as one of the top 100 service companies in America out of over 4500 independents by a major manufacture. Surprising thing is it wasn’t Bosch. lol….

  645. John P Says:


    Our 14 month old Vision 500 has been great, but lately when we look in the bleach dispenser say a day after a load was run, we notice water in it. SOmetime half an inch or more. I am pretty sure (but should probably check again) that when the load is done, the 3 dispenser compartments are all empty. When it happens, it’s only the bleach compartment.

    Any idea what could be causing this? Thanks from Chicago.

  646. woody Says:

    Make sure the dispenser is clean and fully seated into the dispenser housing. If it continues, then turn off the water supply to the washer after using it and see if the problem stops. If it does, you may have a valve that feeds the dispenser which is leaking and that valve may have to be replaced. You might want to contact Bosch now and make record of it and tell them it has been intermittent and they may still cover it under the warranty.

  647. Val Says:

    Hello everyone including Woody
    We are in process of closing on our new house and shopping for a new laundy set, preferrably front loaders. Previously we have had a Kitchen Aid top loaders that we left in the old house (rented out). IN our research, we were told that Kitchen Aid got out of laundry business 6 years ago (too bad, so far we have yet to have a single issue). I stumbbled on this thread while searching for the Bosch washer reviews and good thing I read it. I was considering Frigidaire and ElectroLux, but now I am gonna shift to Bosch. Quickly looked at most B&M stores here in Sacramento, CA and didn’t see anything in $1500 price range. I will check with RC Willey store, just to make sure.
    Meanwhile, I wanted to ask Woody and others with experience re: purchasing from Sears Outlet (refurbished). At my local store there is a Vision 500 Gas Dryer (WTVC553) available for $593. I see a steam option listed on specs, but no Mist Care (is that the same thing or is this washer older/basic model?)
    They also have Bosch Vision 500 WFVC544 (with AquaStop) but the size is 3.3 c ft. Some sites indicate that this model is larger, but I have no wait to verify. Reviews are generally positive. The price for refurb is $877, but its a different color (titanium) unlike dryer which is white. I guess I can live with that, as long as I know I am getting a good value and models. How are these 2 models differ from 6450 combo that is discussed here? Thanks everyone.

  648. woody Says:

    Val…I’m on the run but quickly. All Bosch washers are 4.0 to 4.2 more space than you’ll want. I did check with RCWilley and they have some sets left over and I was told there is a promo coupon out or coming out that gives 10% additional off. They have less than 28 sets though. Good luck. PS…Steam = Mist care.. same thing.

  649. Val Says:

    Thanks Woody. I called RCWilley, and they said its discontinued and they have none left in store here in Sacramento. Can you check on your end?
    What is your opinion re: those models and purchasing from Sears outlet? They are certified or something like that. Thanks for your prompt response!

  650. Val Says:

    I did check their website and sure enough there is a 10% coupon code for washer/dryer pairs (off regular price, exp March 17th), but didn’t specifically mention Bosch. If you can check the avail/stock on your end, I would highly appreciate it.

  651. marc Says:

    Val, they should be able to truck it in, I got mine through that same store and they had them shipped from Utah. Seems to be still available online:


    Try talking to Roger there, he helped me with my sale. I don’t know if that 10% coupon would work since it’s technically ” on sale” from their normal pricing.

    Woody: I did have a question about the gas dryer, seems to be stopping and beeping a lot for the lint filter but when I take it out to clear it, there’s barely anything there. Do you know what may be causing it? Otherwise very happy with the set and the risers are a big help.


  652. woody Says:

    Really really busy so this will be my last response I can make on this today.

    I talked to the corporate office of RCWilley. I spoke directly to the buyer who verified the inventory. They have 6450,’s and 4400′s in stock. Salesman is too lazy or doesn’t want to sell it. Talk to a manager and tell them MONTE told you they are in the IDC.

    Marc…venting issue. Check length, number of elbows, vent cover and and other types of restrictions. Good luck everyone.

  653. John P Says:


    Still trying to solve the water in dispenser (of the Bosch Vision 500) issue (end of wash no water. Next day 1/2″ in bleach side, a little less in softener compartment, none in degergent compartment.

    Service tech came out, said it’s a syphon issue, cleaned it and left. I said I’d call if water returned the next day. It did. They will come back. If it was a water valve issue, wonder why would it just be those 2 compartments and not the other one getting water in it post wash?

    During the call the dispatcher said something that sounded strange. She said “there is always water in the tub; there is an inner tub and an outer tub and the inner tub never completely drains.” Is that true of all front loaders?


  654. dan Says:

    Whirlpool cabrio is a JOKE!. DON’T BUY ONE.THESEwater saver types really don’t clean my clothes.I get dirty clothes not just wear and wash.The bleah reservoir never worked. don’t buy the extended warranty it’s all a big a hoax. I will never buy another whirlpool.

  655. Nancy B Says:

    Hi Woody, I haven’t been able to locate the Bosch Visions, so now I’m looking at Whirlpool Duets and Maytag Maximas. Of those two, which would be your first choice? Thank you so much!

  656. woody Says:

    Either would be fine depending on which one you like the looks of and features best. If you can buy a “reasonably priced” 5 year extended warranty on the washer (washer only) then I would do so.

    For those of you who might know me very well, I don’t usually recommend extended warranties. Remember though, you lose your ability to choose your service company when you buy extended warranties.

  657. Nancy B Says:

    Woody, thank you for your reply. My decision is much easier to make now.

  658. Rosanne Says:

    We have purchased LG washer and dryer March 2012. I have found the wash cycles are REALLY LONG! Even the speed wash is 35 minutes. Depending on the cycle, the clothes are wetter than others. The gas dryer is HORRIBLE!
    It takes 90 minutes to dry a load of 8-10 towels! As for other loads, the
    waistbands on most jeans and work-out clothes are always damp, where the rest of the garment is drier. It seems the sensor thinks the whole garment is dry but not all of it is.. Have to run and rerun dryer. So Frustrating as these machines are supposed to be more efficient! I DON’T think so. Are there any brands/models that anyone can recommend as of the date of my post? I think my old conventional machines did a much better job, and my old dryer that was 28 years old, (whirlpool) dried towels in 90 minutes.. that’s why we wanted a more efficient machine! However, my towels were drier in the old machine when the 90 minutes was up! HELP!!!! This is so FRUSTRATING!

  659. woody Says:

    Rosanne: Take the vent off your dryer and do a few loads. Your old Whirlpool should have dried loads in 40-45 minutes. You have a long or bad vent on that dryer.

  660. Rosanne Says:

    Hi Woody,

    Thanks for the response…my husband put a new vent on new dryer and it is right up against the wall vented to the outside. Still having the same issues. Do they make dryers without this new sensor system? We also tried doing smaller loads. It seems like my husband doesn’t find an issue with the dryer, but my jeans still have damp waist bands and if you put them back in the dryer for continued drying, they won’t dry an further.. seems like the sensors just continue to blow air and not heat. Am I the only one complaining of this issue?

    Thanks Woody,

  661. woody Says:

    Sensor dryers will shut off when the lightest fabric in the load is done so as to not over dry fabrics. Most dryers do this. There is a time dry setting that you can use if additional drying time is needed.

  662. Anne Says:


    My 25 year old Maytag washer just died. I need to replace it but must go with a top loader due to space limitations in front if the machine (shelving).

    You mentioned above that if you could not buy a Bosch today, you would choose one of the Whirlpool brands … i.e. a Whirlpool Duet, Maytag, or Amana top loader.

    My brother tells me that Maytag was bought out by Whirlpool and that Whirlpool, like Bosch, is moving to China. He advises I stay away from the Whirlpool brands because parts will not be available down the road.

    I’m VERY much interested in your valuable input regarding this! What do you advise?

  663. woody Says:

    Bosch moving to China … Huh!
    Whirlpool moving to China … since when ?

    Whirlpool bought Maytag? Yes several years ago.

    The biggest worry in getting parts in the future in my opinion is anything out of Korea. If N. Korea nukes S. Korea we won’t be getting anything out of Korea.

    As far as a top loader goes the tried and true Whirlpool direct drive like the WTW4850XQ (example) would be a consideration. Not exotic in anyway, but reasonable cost and predictable service and life span ( 7- 10 yrs ) There are other top loaders available but they don’t have much of a track record.The Whirlpool is also marketed under Estate, Roper and Admiral. You could also consider a Bosch Axxis model if you want a front loader.

  664. woody Says:

    PS…. Brands out of Korea are LG / Samsung / and Dawoo

  665. Anne Says:

    Hi Woody,

    Ok, then I guess my brother’s mistaken. So if Whirlpool’s not moving to China, are they (will they remain) a U.S. manufacturer?

    If the life span of a Whirlpool direct drive like the WTW4850XQ is 7- 10 years. What is the expected life span of a new Bosch top loader?

    Besides the Whirlpool direct drive WTW4850XQ, could you recommend any other Whirlpool (top loader) model numbers with pretty good track records?

    Thanks so much for all your advice!

  666. maggie Says:

    Hello everyone and Woody,

    I have a very small space (27 width and 29 length). I purchased three years ago a stacked Affinity Frigidaire and so far I have had 4 repairs calls. I am done.

    I have been reading the thread and wanted to find out your views between Asko vs. Bosch vs. Miele. Asko has a fantastic three years warranty. I am told that Miele has discontinued their larger washer and dryer (so maybe they will pull out of the small w+d machines as well and so there will not be a service technician to assist us).

    Plan B would be to spend money and build a larger area for the washer and dryer. At that point, what would you recomment.

    Any feedback would be most welcomed.


  667. woody Says:

    Maggie, first you should check in your area what service providers are available to support the brand you are considering. For example we have very limited support on Miele. The early Asko laundry (20 years ago) had issues. They seem to have refined the machines to where they can meet expectations. My choice in order with price being the same (which it is not) is. 1. Asko 2. Bosch 3. Miele. With that said I recently purchased a Bosch Axxis set but the price was a killer deal at only $750 for the pair. (Scratch and dent).
    The Asko’s are superior in cleaning and removing stains. Keep in mind you have to register the appliances right away in order to get the three year warranty, otherwise it is only two. But the Bosch is just one. I would rate the Bosch higher, but frankly their customer service nationally (not locally) lacks common sense. I haven’t any experience with the Miele in that regard.

  668. Paula Van Horn Says:

    Have the famous Maytag Neptune washer/dryer class action lawsuit model. Just found out about it after years of repairs. I am looking to replace both washer & dryer and am horrified at the lack of quality out there. Am also having salesperson trust issues! Has Bosch come out with a new model? Should mention that my dryer needs to be vented about 20 feet to outside wall & is on second story. I’d appreciate any help you can offer! Woody, still out there?

  669. Paula Says:

    What about the Electrolux EIFLS60? Any info? Thanks!

  670. woody Says:

    Paula, Bosch has not come out with new models. I think it might be a while before we see them make any move on full size laundry for a while.
    Ahhh, the Maytag “lawsuit”, a class action lawsuit in which lawyers got millions and consumers got screwed! Prior to the lawsuit Maytag was taking care of any issues with the product. Once the lawsuit started Maytag had to pull back any assistance to consumers. Maytag is responsible for the upsurge in interest in front loaders. They got a raw deal and along with some other blatant mistakes in trying to grow rather than just be great, it cost them the company. Maytag as you may know is now owned by Whirlpool.

    Before you purchase anything make sure you have service in your area for the brand you choose. National customer service is lacking in many brands now, even Bosch. Too much dotting “I’s” and crossing “T’s” instead of common sense. Many manufactures are under financial restraints so they can’t be as generous as they once where. In my area my choices in laundry would most likely be Whirlpool and Maytag brands with LG a close second, but I’m really tepid about either. Until a few of these machine develop a track record it’s going to be difficult to chose. Korean brands like Samsung, LG, Dawoo and others could easily be swept up by political concerns in their own countries. (That’s my opinion for what it’s worth) Happy shopping.

  671. Paula Says:

    Thank you so much Woody. I hate to be greedy, but I am in the Philadelphia area. Do you know of any good service technicians here? Also, do you have an opinion on the Eletrolux EIFLS60JIW & matching dryer? Was told it was of good quality and reliable (by salesperson of course). Wanted to take a bath after visiting Sears the other day and listening to the sales pitch and extended warranty pitch. And got A & E repair after calling Maytag/Whirlpool. I am having serious trust issues…:(

  672. woody Says:

    Paula, Electrolux is Frigidaire with lipstick. :)

  673. Anne Says:

    Costco.com offers lifetime guarantees on their products.

    Thus, I went with their Whirlpool Washer WTW4910XQ (direct drive gear driven) & Dryer WED4910XQ units. I paid $549.99 each (includes S/H) plus tax.

    I called to confirm … return shipping is free.

  674. woody Says:

    Anne:I also contacted Costco and there are some exclusions. The product comes with a two year in home warranty. There is much room in the language on their web site. Actual returns are done on a “review” process. Items over two years old will always be reviewed.

    Costco is a great place to do business, however it’s not a lifetime warranty. :)

  675. Anne Says:


    Costco’s official return policy on electronics is 90 days from the date of purchase for TVs, computers, cameras, camcorders, iPod/MP3 players, and cellular phones.

    All other returns fall into that undefined “gray area” that you reference (of COURSE all returns are reviewed). However, my personal experience with them has been pretty good (i.e. they’ve accepted returns of merchandise >5 years old).

  676. woody Says:

    Paula, I don’t know the Philly area unless it’s for a Philly steak & cheese!

    You’ll have to ask around. Wish I had more to offer you.

  677. Paula Says:

    Hi Woody! I have just purchased a Whirlpool 4.6 Cabrio Top Load WTW8200YW, and a Whirl Cabrio Elec Dryer w/ steam refresh WED7800XW. Have I done OK…or do I need to cancel my order, buy something else today & let my husband commit me to the Home for the Washer/Dryer Consumer Crazies?

  678. woody Says:

    The moment of absolute certainty never arrives. If your husband has any concerns have him read this. #4 in the masculine argument might apply to your purchase also :)

    A SPANISH Teacher was explaining to her class that in Spanish, unlike English , nouns are designated as either masculine or feminine.

    ‘House’ for instance, is feminine: ‘la casa.’

    ‘Pencil,’ however, is masculine: ‘el lapiz.’

    A student asked, ‘What gender is ‘computer’?’

    Instead of giving the answer, the teacher split the class into two groups, male and female, and asked them to decide for themselves whether computer’ should be a masculine or a feminine noun. Each group was asked to give four reasons for its recommendation.

    The men’s group decided that ‘computer’ should definitely be of the feminine gender (‘la computadora’), because:

    1. No one but their creator understands their internal logic;

    2. The native language they use to communicate with other computers is incomprehensible to everyone else;

    3. Even the smallest mistakes are stored in long term memory for possible later retrieval; and

    4. As soon as you make a commitment to one, you find yourself spending half your paycheck on accessories for it.


    The women’s group, however, concluded that computers should be Masculine (‘el computador’), because:

    1. In order to do anything with them, you have to turn them on;

    2 They have a lot of data but still can’t think for themselves;

    3. They are supposed to help you solve problems, but half the time they ARE the problem; and

    4. As soon as you commit to one, you realize that if you had waited a little longer, you could have gotten a better model.


  679. Paula Says:

    Thanks Woody! You’ve brought me a smile! However, you didn’t comment on the models I picked. Hmmmm….! I am hoping the Washer/Dryer Gods are smiling down on us! You have been great!

  680. Paula Says:

    Hi Woody. The moment of absolute certainty did arrive after my Whirlpool Cabrio Platinum (8600) washer & dryer were delivered this am, and after reading the manuals, I began tackling some of the laundry that had piled up. Basic towels, came out a bit shredded on the edges & in the terrycloth itself. On delicates, the washer ate a nice tee of mine, & pilled our Nike golf clothes. I am not happy. The dryer stinks too. Service will be out to diagnose washer. If the diagnosis is good, I apparently have a machine that works. I need disposable clothes. :(

  681. Moira Says:

    Paula, I would so send that washer back. That is ridiculous. I got, at Woody’s recommendation, the Bosch. Sometimes I feel like my clothes need to be a little “brighter” but never has something come out destroyed. My sister has some kind of Whirlpool upright she got a few years ago, and it has never destroyed anything. It works really well. I cannot think it is the same one you got. You should be able to send something back within 3 days.

  682. Rosanne Says:

    Hi Paula,

    I would send that washer and dryer back. We purchased new topload LG with glass top and matching dryer, the washer didn’t do a good job washing and the dryer left EVERY load damp. I understand the concept of not over-drying the clothes, but this was ridiculous. We sent them back, bought them at Best Buy and they have a 45 day return policy. We instead purchased Whirlpool toploader WTW4800XQ with matching gas dryer. The washer has an agitator, which I don’t mind. No clothing has been ruined and the dryer is WONDERFUL! It takes about 40-45 minutes to dry a big load. The clothes come out DRY but not really hot and burnt. They look like the “old style” traditional washer and dryer, they were almost 600.00 cheaper and work better. We have been using them for about one month and couldn’t be happier… hope this helps.

  683. Linda Says:

    I have recently moved from Alberta to Strathroy (small town near London), Ontario, and am looking to buy a washer and dryer that will “do the job”, but not cost an “arm and leg”. I am now a single female in mid 60′s who, in 1998, purchased a Maytag top loading washer and front loading gas dryer; never had one problem with them. Unfortunately, sold them with the previous house. Buying another home and would like to have such reliability again, but am confused by reading many of the posts. Since both Maytag and Whirlpool brands are available, are there differences in why I should buy one over the other? Price-wise, would it be better to get someone to install after shipment or buy with understanding that installation is included? Thanks to anyone out there who can help a “non-techie” as far as appliances go. Also, are there opinions on advantage of gas over electric dryer? Present set-up in house is for electric dryer so I would have to have gas brought over from furnace hook-up.

  684. Paula Says:

    Thank you Moira & Roseanne for your comments and suggestions. I have taken so long to respond because I have been fighting the shop which sold these machines of destruction to me to have them Thanks take them back. Of course, they say, I will have to pay a re-stocking fee. Can a used washer & dryer be re-stocked? Anyway…what an experience. I still don’t know what to buy. I have recently read that the steel drums with holes all over them tend to ruin clothes because of the high rpms. Is a honeycomb designed drum easier on the clothes? And does anyone make a washer with one besides Miele? Thanks anyone who knows!

  685. Patricia Says:

    I am TOTALLY surprised by the good recommendation you give Bosch washing machines. I bought mine from our Lowes in Gallatin. At the beginning, had the smell/mold problem & it was under warranty so a Service Tech came out & replaced the seal, said that would solve it. More or less did.

    My BIGGEST ISSUE is I bought the 4 yr. extended warranty from Lowes & over the past year have had to have a Service Tech out TWICE because the machine DOES NOT LET OUT THE WATER & I end up w/SOAKED clothes that are very heavy & what a mess getting them outside to my clothes line (which I use weather permitting, sunshine & a nice breeze cost nothing).

    He’s been out twice in the past year & NO RESOLVE to the issue except to tell me that I should was “similar things” as a load. I DID NOT SPEND A THOUSAND DOLLARS 4 yrs. ago to have to RESTRICT HOW or WHAT I wash. The annoying thing is the Service Tech comes out & runs EMPTY LOADS & OF COURSE NOTHING goes wrong. SO WHAT GOOD IS THAT FOR A TEST? I could have supplied him w/laundry & showed him but he did not do that for a REAL test.

    Now my 4 yr. warranty is up & I have a P.O.S. (guess ya’ll know what that means) Bosch. In 4 yrs. having to replace a $1,000 machine IS NOT MY IDEA OF SAVINGS NOR RELIABILITY.


  686. Woody Says:

    Patricia, My first posts to this thread where in 2010. You state your washer is over 4 years old so my recommendations have nothing to do with your choice, you made that yourself. But bottom line the problems you describe are user related and not the fault of the machine. You should be grateful Lowe’s even covered the problems and paid the service calls because you are using the machine improperly. We are not experiencing the problems you describe except when customers fail to use the machine correctly. But EVERY front loader has the problems you are having when not used correctly, so the issue isn’t Bosch specific. Products like AFRESH were introduced to combat these problems of misuse. Granted there are some products that have had design issues that attribute to the problem but those have been addressed in updates to design.
    To your delight though, had you read more of the posts you would have seen that Bosch is no longer manufacturing their VISION laundry in the USA. Not because of problems, but because the Korean manufactures like LG and Samsung are dumping product in the USA.

    Here is a site that might help everyone know how to use their front load correctly. Bottom line is use the right detergents and leave the door open frequently when not in use.

  687. Woody Says:

    Patricia, My first posts to this thread where in 2010. You state your washer is over 4 years old so my recommendations have nothing to do with your choice, you made that yourself. But bottom line the problems you describe are user related and not the fault of the machine. You should be grateful Lowe’s even covered the problems and paid the service calls because you are using the machine improperly. We are not experiencing the problems you describe except when customers fail to use the machine correctly. But EVERY front loader has the problems you are having when not used correctly, so the issue isn’t Bosch specific. Products like AFRESH were introduced to combat these problems of misuse. Granted there are some products that have had design issues that attribute to the problem but those have been addressed in updates to design.
    To your delight though, had you read more of the posts you would have seen that Bosch is no longer manufacturing their VISION laundry in the USA. Not because of problems, but because the Korean manufactures like LG and Samsung are dumping product in the USA.

    Here is a site that might help everyone know how to use their front load correctly. Bottom line is use the right detergents and leave the door open frequently when not in use.

  688. John P Says:


    We have had our Vision 500 system for 18 months, love it but more to the point, have had to adjust HOW we use the front loader, because it is totally different technology than what we all grew up with.

  689. Mary Varga Says:

    Hi Woody,

    I’m shopping to for a compact washer and dryer to replace my 12 year old Asko W620 washer and T700 dryer that is located in a closet in my kitchen. I have room to place the appliances either side by side or stacking but the depth cannot be more than 25″ with the closet door closed.

    My local appliance store is recommending a choice of the following:
    Asko MultiHousing W6324 washer and T743 dryer or Bosch 24″ Compact Axxis Washer WAS20160UC and Dryer WTV76100US or an Italian made Whirlpool stacking compact.

    What is the best choice of the 3 and are there pros and cons I should consider?

    Thanks for any insight you can provide. One other note – the appliance store used to have a repair crew but no longer do. They said the Asko would be repaired by an Asko regional repair person, but to expect up to a 2 week wait.

  690. Woody Says:

    Well like they do on House Hunters on HGTV the first one to go is the Whirlpool. Not a good product in my opinion.

    You are already familiar with the Asko. The machines built now are superior to the one’s you had. So you should like them if you like what you have now. Asko has a 3 year warranty also if you properly register them. The service availability might be a negative. I’d make a phone call to the nearest authorized service company and she when they could schedule service just as a test.

    What about service for the Bosch in your area? If the cost is equal or close I’d chose the Asko’s personally. In our market though the cost difference is about a 25% premium for the Asko’s. Hope that helps.

  691. tucker Says:

    Weve had the LG for 5 years—it takes forever to dry–have to re-dry 2-3 times to get clothes dry. It has demolished all our towels—after just 3 washings they look old…we’ve tried all the different settings and still they look terrible. Spent a fortune and now going to buy new ones because I don;t want to ruin anymore towels and by the time you do a few loads of wash I wouldn’t call it energy efficient when you have to dry each load a number of times.

  692. Lori Says:

    Hi Woody!

    It’s been a long time. Just read some older posts. I still love my Bosch 800 series after two years. It does a great job washing my clothes and drying them wonderfully. I use a fraction of the laundry soap (He of course) that the box calls for. Installer told me how much to use, and my clothes get just as clean and it’s supposed to be easier on my washer. I dilute the fabric softener and use less as well. No problems. One old post said that you cannot adjust the spin speeds on the 800 series. Yes you can. Just read the manual.

    I so appreciate your advice. It has been golden!


  693. Woody Says:

    Sooooo sad that Bosch decided to quit trying to compete with all the Korean brands being dumped in the USA and closed their laundry plant.
    Such a good machine. Maybe they will bring it back at a later time only it will be manufactured in a 3rd world country where people work for $5 a day or less. In the meantime it’s tough choice what to buy. Support the Korean’s (LG SAMSUNG KENMORE DaWoo) or Electrolux (Frididaire, Electrolux, GE KENMORE)or Whirlpool (Maytag, Whirlpool, Amana)…. not fun to be a consumer somedays.

  694. Sharon Says:

    Hi Woody I live in an apartment that just got reconfigured to accomodate a washer dryer. My doors are tight under 27 inches wide…..I’m looking at a Kenmore 24 inch washer dryer stacked combo all one unit but dryer on top washer on bottom. Space is limited. Can you give me any more ideas?

  695. Woody Says:

    What model Kenmore ?
    What price ?

  696. Val Says:

    Well, I was a proud owner of the Bosch WFVC5400 until yesterday! Bought a new Bosch set per recommendations here in April and had RC Willey install. Pretty happy about the operations and cleaning the system did. But, yesterday in the middle of the washing cycle, my wife heard a loud sound that sounded like something fell off the washing machine. I immediately looked around the machine and didn’t see anything. When the beeping sounded indicated the cycle was over & we opened the door and to our shock the innner part of the front glass door shuttered to pieces! There was nothing inside that could have caused the breakage (we looked though everything inside). It was a big mess and a bummer to us – not because we needed to deal with the glass and dangers associated with the kids in the house, but half of the laudry got destroyed/cut/ripped by the small glass peaces that were inside the machine! I will be calling RC Willey today when they open (@ 10am) but I am not even sure what to think. Quick google search found another forum with user whose glass door cracked – claimed due to vibration (I did notice our machine would vibrate when the high spin cycle would kick in). Not sure if it just wasn’t calibrated correctly or what – but not that the damage is done, I need a reasonable explanation why something like that would happen and why I should give Bosch another change. Woody, have you ever heard of such thing as exploding glass during a wash cycle on these Bosch machines? Did mine just happened to have a manufacturer’s defact or something? Would I call Bosch directly or let the RC Willey folks do it? I did purchase an extended warranty (5yrs) and I know I am still under factory warranty (less then 6 mo old). Who will provide a faster repair/service? Also, any way to recover the cost of damage done to my Alfani and other fasion brand clothes? Yeah, I know too many questions in one thread, but I am frustrated

  697. Woody Says:

    Sorry to hear you had a problem, but machines are not perfect and having one post with a similar problem is a testament to the product. With the thousands of machines out there if it were a problem then you might find hundreds.
    Call RCW to get the name of their recommended warranty service company and then call Bosch to ask about the damage to your clothing.

    Your door and the door of other brands (including range doors) is made of tempered glass. Here is a great article on tempered glass breakage. Two main causes of breakage are heat and impact. Even though tempered glass is impacted it does not necessarily break immediately from that impact. So even though you didn’t have anything in that load you could have had something in a prior load (weeks or months ago) that was the impact (rocks in pockets, toy cars, heavy buckle or any other similar object).

  698. Val Says:

    Woody, thanks for the encouragement. You forgot to put the link to the article (or maybe its being blocked). I will be calling them @ 10 when they open, need to get this resolved in a week before leaving on a 2 week vacation.

  699. Woody Says:

    Forgot the link to the article about tempered glass :)


  700. Woody Says:

    @EZ … That’s about the tackiest bit of word press I’ve ever seen.

  701. Peggy Says:

    So, Woody,
    What do you recommend now? We in the market for both a washer and dryer. Interesting reading here!

  702. Julia Says:

    Woody I hope your still out there!! I’m in the market for a new washer & dryer. After reading these comments I’d really love to find me a Bosch set. I found on RCW site a Bosch WFVC44000UC 300 DLX. How would this compare to the 6450′s? The down side is that I wasn’t able to find any dryers on their site and Bosh’s site looks like it only offers compact. Is there anywhere you know of that still sells Bosch??

  703. Woody Says:

    Get the washer from RCWilley if you don’t mind a mix match. Did you ask the sales person to see if they had any dryers of any model ? The 4400 is a fine machine. They have a clearance center in a few locations. They can transfer product from one city to another. As far as I know there just are not anymore machines to be found in my area.

  704. Julia Says:

    Thank you for the response,

    Unfortunately I wasn’t able to talk with a sales rep today, their store is closed on Sundays. I would prefer to get a matching set so im going to do some more looking around & call RCW to talk with a rep. Hopefully they will have some good news for me. :) I also (per your advice) need to be sure there is a good serviceman in my area. If I don’t have any luck with Bosch, can you recommend the make & model of your next best choice please? If I remember right you mentioned Whirlpool & Maytag being a good bet right? Thanks for all your info here, it has helped tons. I didn’t even know where to start before coming across this site.

  705. Anne Says:

    I’ve a question for Woody:

    RE: Whirlpool Washer WTW4910XQ, purchased May 2012 at Costco.com
    Delivered / installed by Costco vendor

    I used the “HEAVY” cycle for the first time this week to wash a medium-sized load of heavy towels. During the spin cycle, the drum started banging up against the inside walls of the machine – a loud banging sound alerted me of the problem (like the banging sound of sneakers being washed). I turned off the machine; then switched to “Normal” cycle and the banging sound disappeared. Is this something I can fix myself (i.e., related to balancing and installation)? Or is it instead something requiring a service technician? The machine is only a few months old … thus, still under warranty.

  706. Woody Says:

    Anytime the machine is under warranty and you experience a problem contact the Certified service company in your area and report the problem. Even if it is only a one time occurrence you will be making a history just in case after the warranty is finished you might be able to get assistance because the problem existed while the warranty is still in effect. Double check also, I think your Costco purchase might have a built in extended warranty of two years.

    If you don’t want to call then based upon your description you may have just had an unbalanced load.

  707. Anne Says:

    Woody, you were right. I did an extra small load (scrub pants and top) using the “HEAVY” cycle … this time, no banging sounds.

    The machine supposedly balances each load at the very beginning automatically. I wonder if extra large heavy bath towels will always be problematic using the “HEAVY” cycle.

  708. Woody Says:

    :) Like kissing a boy. You won’t know what it’s like till you do it :)

  709. anne k Says:

    The best washer and dryer is Speedqueen. They are super easy to repir yourself and they last forever. My parents have the same Speedqueen washer and dryer since 1979 and they worbk excellent.I also own several apaortment buildings and thats what i have as commercial washer and dryers and i never have probb

  710. Gerry D Says:


    I’ve read several posts from 2010 and starting from Feb 2012. We are in Michigan and wondering your recommendation on the best high capacity front load washer and dryer? We’ve heard the Whirlpool Duet is a good choice but currently have a four year old Duet set that has had several issues. The wife says if we had a larger capacity she wouldn’t have to do as much laundry. I know you were recommending Bosch but doesn’t seem they have big enough units and also doesn’t sound like they are your top recommendation any longer? Your help is much appreciated.

    Thanks in advance.


  711. Woody Says:

    Bosch discontinued manufacturing it’s Vision laundry in the USA early this year. Many of us are very disappointed in that decision. They just were not making money doing it because of the Korean imports being dumped in the USA by LG and Samsung. We hope they will built it again outside the USA and import it here someday. Until then we have to suck it up with our 2nd choices which would be Whirlpool / Maytag front loaders and if you have service in your area the LG products.

    Should be plenty of labor day sales with some values. Wish I had more to add like a specific model. Hope that helps.

  712. Val Says:

    Woody, little update from few weeks back re: shuttered glass door. Contacted local repair shop, repair done in 1 week (glass ordered from manufacturer,shipped and installed on tight schedule). Very happy with how it was all handled. The issue with damaged clothes is still pending: Bosch wants copy of invoices for all items damaged and there is no garantee it will be covered (up to management, supposedly). There is a third party insurance company that handles this process, kind of out of their control type of thing. Anyways, the reason for this post is cause I wanted to ask where I can get the transport bolts that came with the washer? RC Willey installers are disposing of them after install and I didn’t know any better to ask to keep them at the time. Now that I have purchased the pedestalls (from elsewhere), I need to lay the washer on the side and the install manual instructs to install those bolts to prevent damage to drum. Contacted Bosch, they sell them (no complementary as I hoped) and RC Willey not willing to do anything about this. I guess I will need them if I ever decide to move or do lay it down anyway, but just wanted to check with you if you have any other ideas where to go to get those bolts and if they are generic with all front loads. I was give the part# 620764 (comes up as spacer on google search) for WFVC5440UC-26. Thanks for any input you can provide.

  713. Woody Says:

    Shipping bolts are an interesting dilemma. Everyone that keeps them can’t remember what they are for or doesn’t know where they are at. If you throw them away they are always needed. I might have some somewhere or know someone who does. What’s you zip code ?

  714. Val Says:

    95621 (Citrus Heights, CA). Thanks.

  715. Nancy Says:

    Woody, we weren’t lucky enough to find a Bosch washer and dryer so we purchased a Maytag. So far, no complaints. Now we are looking for applaince guidance for our kitchen remodel. It appears that the other categories on this site have long been abandoned. I’m so glad you’ve chosen to hang around with all of us and help us out. Is there another site that you would recommend for information about ranges, frigs & dishwashers? Is this a can of worms you’d like to open? :-) Your guidance is very much appreciated. Nancy

  716. woody Says:

    Nancy, I am full of useless information :)
    What I would suggest to you will depend on your
    budget for appliances. So we can start there to see what we can
    get the most bang for the buck. (Color also)

  717. Nancy Says:

    Woody, I could kiss you!!!! Thank you so much for letting me pick your brain about something other than washers and dryers. We are looking at kitchen appliances in the mid to upper price range, stainless steel. I’ve already decided on a Wolf 36″ gas range. I’d love a Liebherr or a Sub-Zero frig/freezer, freezer on the bottom, but have concerns about reliability. I’m looking at KitchenAid KFCS22EVMS. Freezer size isn’t an issue because I have a chest freezer for most freezer storage. I don’t want water and ice on the door. I’ve had a GE Profile & LG frig/freezers, and experienced problems with both after 1 year. At our last home we had a Bosch dishwasher and loved it but have been reading about the Mieles and I’m leaning towards them now. The reviews I’ve read from people who’ve had both Bosch & Miele seem to pick the Miele over Bosch. What to do? I’m open to suggestions and advice, Woody. Thank you again! Nancy

  718. Woody Says:

    Quickly, comparing a SubZero to a KitchenAid freestanding refrigerator is like comparing a Lexus to a Chevrolet Malibu. Not really a fair comparison. You are comparing mid-line vs high end. The price swing will be dramatic. What zip code are you in ? or State and county. Service for some of these brands is going to be an issue and before I recommend anything I’ll need to know if you have service available. Service for Miele is spotty at best unless you live in a coastal city.

  719. Nancy Says:

    Hi Woody! I should have thought about that, sorry. Our ZIP code is 92118. Look forward to your response. Thanks, Nancy

  720. Woody Says:

    If you are going with the Wolf range (excellent choice) 6 burners is the best choice. (you can always put a griddle on a burner but you can’t use a griddle for much more than just a griddle). You will need ventilation with that. Lots of choice there depending upon what you wanting for a “look” about the range.
    No compromise in the refrigeration would be the SubZero. They are bar none the best company to deal with if you have any service issues, even out of the warranty.
    My FAVORITE dishwasher now is not well know but is the Thermador DWHD650JF SAPPHIRE! Thermador is a Bosch platform with “style” :) … Third rack is AWESOME !!! I own one and my family thinks it rocks! And I have teenagers.

    Sorry I’m am not a Miele fan. Parts too expensive and service support is not to the level I think it ought to be.
    So after you get over the sticker shock :) Let me know if you want alternative choices based upon budget vs wants .

  721. Nancy Says:

    Woody, we are getting the six-burner wolf! A couple months ago I even found a wolf hood at an appliance center in San Diego that a customer returned – still in the box and I got it for half price! Of course, the blower is a separate item & I still need to buy that. Very interested in the Thermador dishwasher. I’m one of those people who didn’t know they made dishwashers. What are your thoughts on a lower priced alternative to the Sub-Zero? I’m hoping i can still get a rebate by purchasing both the wolf & sub-zero so an alternative to the frig won’t be necessary. Would Bosch be an alternative to the Thermador? I really appreciate your help! Nancy

  722. Rob Says:

    I’m not Woody, but I’ll add some comments for Nancy.
    I posted back in September 2011 on this forum re Bosch
    washer, dryer, and dishwasher if you want to see some background.

    Nancy, you asked about Bosch as an alternative to Thermador.
    I’m pretty sure it’s Thermador that looked to me like it *is*
    a Bosch — same racks, same internal appearance.

    The Bosch machines are very reliable according to Consumer Report.

    The one we bought is also very quiet. Remarkably so. We can run
    it any time day or night and not be annoyed by it, even when
    in the same room. I think partly this is because it has no
    grinder for disposing of particles. This makes it your
    responsibility to clean the strainers periodically.
    That’s pretty easy, but you mustn’t ignore it, or they’ll
    get clogged, and also the dishwasher will smell bad.
    The strainers pop out of the bottom of the tub easily with
    no tools, and you just rinse them under a faucet and maybe
    give them a wipe.

    One thing I don’t like about the Bosch dishwasher is that
    the racks are designed for pretty delicately thin dishes
    and small glassware. If you have large/heavy/thick plates and
    glasses, they may not fit very well. Ours are not particularly
    large/thick, but we can barely get glasses or mugs under the
    fold-down cup shelf on the top rack.

    However, it cleans quite well, and really is amazingly quiet.

    Rob, in Ontario, Canada

  723. Woody Says:

    Rob, do you have the third rack model ? If not it is a game changer when it comes to loading and versatility. Again, the Thermador is a Bosch with style. Bosch makes a third rack d/w model. It is only missing some of the glitter like the saphire blue interior lights.

    One of many reasons these dishwashers are quite is they have separate wash and drain motors and many many sound deadening features. Some model like the sapphire have independent water softeners.

    SubZero when you add up the product, the design and the company that stands behind the product has no peers. As far as value goes there as some brands to consider. Again, you have to tell what you budget is or we could be all over the place. My second choices would be some of the Thermador built in’s and the KitchenAid built-in. I do a little bit of work for Northland and Liebherr but there really aren’t enough of them to give a good track record,

  724. Rob Says:

    Woody asked:

    > Rob, do you have the third rack model ?

    No, it’s a mid-range 500 series model with two racks. The lower
    rack has a fold-down set of spines, and the RackMatic upper rack
    is quickly adjustable to a higher or lower setting,
    and has the flip-up cup holders and one row of fold-down spines.
    Very similar (maybe identical) to the racks shown in the image
    on this page:



  725. Nancy Says:

    Rob, thanks for the note. I had a Bosch that I liked very much but took issue with the same things you mentioned. One of the reasons I was looking at Miele was they have the utensil rack. I may end up with another Bosch afterall! Nancy

  726. Nancy Says:

    Woody, I honestly don’t have a budget. That’s terrible, I know. When I was looking at Leibherr CBS 2062, I was given a price of $5700. I was also given a price on a KitchenAid KFCS22EVMS of $2599. At the time I got these prices, I wasn’t looking at Sub-Zero. The two Sub-Zeros I’ve recently been looking at (brochure) are the 700TCI and the 736TCI. I’d like a freestanding unit or cabinet depth, not a traditional built-in. I would pay a premium for an appliance that was solid & service was good. If I have to replace in 10 yrs or less, I’d rather not waste the money. Thanks again! Nancy

  727. Woody Says:

    I have a 736TR (all refigerator with two drawers and then we have a 700BF under counter freezer. We have a clear ice ice machine (18″ KitchenAid) so we don’t have the ice maker in the freezer. Sub Zero warranty is 2 years total product / 5 years refrigeration sealed system parts AND labor / 12 years sealed system parts. Most people keep these products 20 years or more unless they remodel but that’ pretty rare. Bottom line though is if we came out on a free standing refrigerator that needed a compressor out of warranty you would generally replace the product. But when you have a product that would cost you thousands to replace you would replace it because the value makes sense of cost of repair vs replacement, if that makes sense to you.

  728. Nancy Says:

    Thanks, Woody, for your help. I’ll be pricing out the various appliances next week and hopefully will get a good deal on a package. Probably won’t get my Sub-Zero, but I’m pretty sure I’ll get the Thermador dishwasher. I appreciate your time & have a wonderful weekend!

  729. Anne Says:

    Woody, regarding your statement: “… But when you have a product that would cost you thousands to replace you would replace it because the value makes sense of cost of repair vs replacement, if that makes sense to you.”

    What is “it” that you’d replace? The compressor? Or the product itself?

  730. Patricia Says:

    I have a Bosch Nexxt 500 Series Front Loader. Purchased 9/03/2007 from our local Lowes, cost was $898.20. I also purchased the extended 4 yr. warranty. I read reviews on line & drank the Koolaid. What makes me angry is I did my research & what I read said Bosch was a good machine. Okay, so are Bosch employees posting reviews or people are being paid (like infomercials) to say good things online about Bosch? Makes me wonder from my experience.

    It did a LOUSY job of cleaning & the last year or so, the water would not drain off & I had soaking clothes to deal with. And yes, I did try an extra spin cycle & that did not work either & yes I do used the HE recommended detergent. Had to take soaking wet clothes outside & squeeze the excess water off as best I could. My husband put up a clothes line which I use 90% of the time, but of course that depends on the weather. I even took pics of the clothes that would come out of the washing machine, in case I needed them.

    Called the repairman numerous times. He would run it empty which it was FINE EMPTY. I’d ask him if he would let me put clothes in the washing machine so he could see for himself & he never would let me. He would run it through it’s cycles EMPTY & of course he could not find that it had a problem.

    He told me I had to wash “like” clothes. All jeans, all shirts, etc. WHO HAS TIME to do that & WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO DO THAT? The machine DID NOT WORK PROPERLY. The Lowes person NEVER SAID nor indicated that I had to do that.

    It was SUPPOSED TO WASH BIG LOADS of clothes. Nope. I never over stuffed it & usually just washed more frequently. I will say it used very little water. ANOTHER PROBLEM, I would pull clothes/whatever I was washing & areas of the pieces would be DRY. NOT ENOUGH WATER to clean properly.

    After 2-3 times out here, he finally said that the problems I experienced he had seen before. I see on my notes that I wrote “tilted drum? Maybe that was something the warranty repairman thought may have been my problem? I’m old, I don’t remember. I also had a local repairman tell me that he had more complaints on front end loaders than old style.

    So after having a Maytag Neptune washer/dryer when they first came out (by the way, the dryer was fine & it still runs & I have it today but most dryers are simple machines, easy to repair, so at least that’s one thing I haven’t had to worry with). I don’t have to have matching things, if it’s not broke WHY NOT USE IT? We are such a throw away society anymore. I AM DONE WITH FRONT END LOADERS! NEVER AGAIN!

    I am giving the Bosch Nexxt 500 series washing machine & my old Maytag Neptune dryer to my son (divorcing) & he can use it. Hopefully it will last him until he can replace the washer.

    I went back to Lowes & told them I was not done w/them yet about the Bosch, but they had the best deal on the Whirlpool Cabrio machine I bought (checked on-line & in store). I got the Model WTW8240YWD; Type 580-05, delivered this past Thurs. 9/6/12. This time I DID BUY the matching dryer because I am giving my old washer/dryer to our son. And yes I did buy the extended warranty for 4 yrs. & you can bet if THIS ONE IS A LEMON, Lowes will get it back. I’m not going through another $1,000 machine that doesn’t work properly.

    I did not get the fancier model w/the see through top, this one is plain white & does everything it did except no clear top but saved me $300. I called yesterday, no the dryer didn’t come in on the truck so now I must wait until next week sometime for Lowes to get the dryer in & the old Neptune dryer still works & I still have my clothes line & sunshine which doesn’t cost me anything.

    I have washed several things. This washer has a 4.6 ft tub. The first thing I washed was 2 afgans. They both had “grayish residue” on them so I took pics. Then I proceeded to wash about 8 more rugs, 2 at a time, placed evenly around the outside of the tub. I did open the top to see how much water was in there & it had enough to cover what I was washing & no more. I am using the HE detergent! I didn’t notice residue on them, so not sure why the afgans had residue but IF it continues to be a problem, Lowes can send someone out here & tell me why.

    Ya’ll can do what you want too, but after two negative experiences with top of the line front end loaders, NEVER AGAIN! And Lowes, I’m not done w/you yet!

  731. Patricia Says:


  732. Treesha Jean Says:

    This is all so helpful. Thanks so much!

  733. Woody Says:

    Anne “It” would be the compressor (or other sealed system part).

    Patricia, Lowes is a dealer, not a manufacture. Yes Lowes is a great company and takes care of their customers. Your displeasure should be directed at the manufacture(s) not Lowes. Just be grateful Lowes is a good advocate.

    You might want to have your son clean out the pump on your Bosch. I’m sure it is full of lint and threads from the rugs you wash. Your problems with your Bosch are an exception.

  734. Nancy Says:

    Hi Woody, I was reminded that I can’t always get what I want. :-(

    I scaled things down a bit, but nothing is firm except my 36 inch Wolf gas range. I priced out the Bosch dishwasher, BSHE8ER55UC, and JennAir frig, JJFC2290VEP. The only reason I chose the JennAir was because the handles match the Wolf better than KitchenAid’s handles. Is the JennAir a decent product? What are your thoughts about the Bosch I priced out? Thank you so much! Nancy

  735. Woody Says:

    You’ll love the 3rd rack on the Bosch
    The KitchenAid and the JennAir are basically the same product
    with different styles. For a counterdepth refrigerator I’m sure you’ll be happy with it.

  736. Nancy Says:

    Woody, thanks for your help! I know i’ll LOVE the utensil rack! Nancy

  737. Rayna Says:

    Woody, I hope I can get your help. I have only ever known top loading laundry machines but we have had nothing but problems in the last two years with 3 different machines. We would like to purchase a new set for our family, something dependable and that will last more then a few years. Large Capacity would be a must. Do you have any recommendations? do you think top load or front load is better and why? Hope you can help !!

  738. social sharing Says:

    Hi there, You have done a fantastic job. I will certainly digg it and in my opinion suggest to my friends. I’m confident they will be benefited from this website.

  739. Jessica Says:

    There is absolutely no mention here of SPEED QUEEN–The Best Machine in the World, American made in WI…heals the PTSD experiences of all these electronic junk machines…stories of people having no repairs and models working for over 40 years! 10 year warranty–best in the business. Top loaders and side loaders. Simple or sleek. Brilliantly made. Check out the website and discover the miracle machine that works the way a machine is supposed to. I am a very, very proud new owner of a W/D set. Will never, ever, ever go back. Classic and perfect.

  740. Elaine Says:

    Hello Woody!!!are you there? After reading all your advice the other night I found a used Bosch Axxis WFL 2050 or 2060 and it won;t start.(supposedly it was working before we moved it….) and I’ve checked all that the valves are open, door is clicked closed, lights come on but when I press start nothing happens! Any advice? Also the dryer Axxis 5410 works but takes forever!!!!….2 1/2 hours to dry a small load. Is it worth trying to fix?

  741. Woody Says:

    The Axxis machines are not like the NEXXT and Vision models discussed in these threads. They are the “European sized models” and although very capable machines they are a different animal.

    If the washer does not work then how did you get a load for the dryer?
    The Axxis washer extracts a high volume of water, more than a traditional machine. If you put a load in from a traditional machine it would take a long time. Long drying times are usually caused by air flow issues.

    I really can’t advise on whether to repair or not because I don’t know the age, previous use of what you paid for it. A used set of Axxis machines in working order are worth $500 – $1000 from a private party (my opinion). Be sure the washer is plugged into the back of the dryer. If not that could be your problem.

  742. Tammy Says:

    Hello all
    I have had my frigidaire front loading gallery stackables for ten years, they’ve gone thru two kids, mechanic husband, bedding, area rugs(yes area rugs lol) These machines have kicked butt for me, they owe me nothing!!!! my dryer just quit today, but after all I’ve read, I will get it repaired. I have overstuffed, abused, used regular detergent in it and my washer keeps on going!!! I have no problems with mold or mildew, I think they are smaller capacity but considering what they’ve done for me, that’s a minor issue!!! I paid top dollar at the time, $1700. I also purchased extended warranty which helped once when the switch went on the washer. I highly recommend extended warranties, I have had great luck with them.

  743. Susie C. Says:

    I’ve been fascinated by your dedication to this site – THANKS!
    If you’ll indulge a few more questions I’d sure appreciate it.
    I own a ASKO set (10-12 year old) in the past 6 months I’ve replaced motors in both W&D – now I need to put another $400 in the dryer so I thought it really just may be time to get a new dryer and then when the washer died I’d replace that. Well I just found out that my ASKO washer will not work without my ASKO dryer (I have really liked these machines as they don’t draw water from your water heater, I have a well and septic and they don’t use much water and they have cleaned really well) but before I put another $400 in I think it may be time to replace. I’ve loved your Bosch discussion – I’ve also heard WONDERFUL success stories about Speed Queen machines. I will be buying from a local appliance dealer and I know I’ll get good service as I have over the past decade. Here are my questions: Do any other washers heat the water in the machine like ASKO does (I really like that feature)? Do you know if I can have something electrical professionally installed that could over-ride the washer having to be plugged into the dryer (my brother is qualified for most electrical work) – this way I could keep the washer for a bit longer? Do you have any experience with Speed Queen machines? I love that they are made in Wisconsin, USA and are the work horses used at most laundry mats. Thanks so much if you are able to reply!

  744. Woody Says:

    As you already know the Asko is a “European sized” laundry set and so you need to compare apples with apples. The full size Bosch laundry is no longer being made available in the USA :( Bosch still has the AXXIS machines which are comparable to your Asko’s somewhat. The Speed Queen’s I am aware of are larger machines. So keep that in mind as far as space and size go.

    If your brother understands electrical as you suggest he does then he can easily configure an outlet, splitter or cheater cord to plug the washer into. If the price doesn’t scare you away and the size is right I’d just buy another set of Asko’s if you like the cold fill heat the water up feature (which is great for stain removal). I hope this helps answer some of your questions.

  745. dan Says:

    Woody…we are needing to replace our washer. I read in earlier posts you highly recommending Bosh or whirlpool. Are you not recommending Bosh at all now? I like the criteria you use for evaluating. What brand/model would you suggest we look at and consider? Thanks.

  746. Woody Says:

    Dan, thank you!
    Due to pricing pressure from the Koran’s LG and Samsung, Bosch found it was no longer profitable to operate their laundry plant in the USA and closed production (more jobs going over seas). Numerous lawsuits have been filed by companies who believe there are unfair trade practices going on but our government is slow to move.

    At this time my personal preference would be to purchase one of the Whirlpool brands which include Maytag and Amana in the laundry lines. The Bosch, in my opinion had some distinct advantages over everyone else, especially reliability. But it isn’t a choice any longer :( Good luck.

  747. Brijitte Says:

    Hi Woody!
    I have spent the last two days meticulously reading over all of the posts on this page and chuckling at your good humor and that of some of the other posters. Such great info! You are a saint for your attention and helpfulness to everyone! Being in the education field and having done a lot of volunteer work with children with special needs, I really appreciate your daughter’s career pursuits and hope that she is enjoying her work.

    We too are looking to purchase a washer/dryer set. Quality is the most important criteria, but we were hoping to spend less than $1,000… During the process of reading the posts, I decided the Bosch would be worth spending more, but then read on and discovered they have discontinued the full-size models.

    It is really frustrating that CR recommendations don’t seem to match user experiences. AND, their reliability ratings list LG and Samsung at the top of the pack! They even list Kenmore over Maytag (manuf by Whirlpool I know). Finding this site and your informative posts was such a relief!

    I am hoping to purchase from South Bay Appliance (since 1929) in Gardena, CA. Have to check what brands they are authorized to repair.

    I am still left with some questions that may also interest/benefit others if you would be so kind to help further?

    (1) First, what is your opinion on purchasing a used Bosch set versus another brand that is new? (My main concern would be whether the original owner used them properly to prevent mold and other issues. I would also be worried about how they would deliver it to me, like would they turn the machine on its side without the ) I found a used Bosch 500 Series set (WFMC3301UC & WTMC4500UC) for $800 used for 3 years. Is that reasonable?

    (2) Assuming South Bay Appliance services the brand I buy, if your daughters needed to get a full size set now with Bosch gone, what models would you recommend if price/color weren’t an issue?

    Guess I’m hoping for something more specific than Whirlpool (includes Maytag and Amana) or LG (sounds like you are warming to LG even though very concerned about the parts issue out of S. Korea considering N. Korea potential conflict)?

    I don’t care about HE, etc., just want something that is not likely to break down. Color is not an issue and in fact we now prefer White since I learned here that the colored models scratch more easily or show dirt/soap residue etc.

    Maybe you could tell me what your opinion would be for a model among the front loaders, a model among the direct drive top loaders and a model among the HE top loaders pretty please?

    (3) Since Whirlpool manufactures Maytag and Amana, is there any difference in quality? Do you prefer Whirlpool over Maytag or Amana or are they all the same crap shoot now?

    (4) Do you still prefer front loaders to top loaders now that Bosch isn’t an option? In several posts you mentioned your preference for good front-loaders over top loaders (now that manufacturer issues have been resolved and as long as consumers read their manuals and/or use the machines properly). Do you still prefer something like the Whirlpool Cabrio HE top loaders to the direct drive Whirlpool top loaders? What do you think about Whirlpool direct drive top loaders vs. Whirlpool HE top loaders vs. Whirlpool front loaders?

    (5) Do the direct drive Whirlpool top loaders have a belt? Otherwise I am confused why you like them since you also noted that you did not like direct drive machines where the motor is attached directly to the tub without requiring a belt (noting it is less expensive to replace a simple belt with a detached motor than to purchase direct drive components).

    You’ve also recommended Whirlpool VMW… but is it a problem that it has a “nonservice-able belt driven component?” I read that by the end of 2010 Whirlpool wasn’t making any direct drive models and were to have a new entry level and midrange washer that is a cross between the Cabrio and a GE (no more drive trains or bases), all plastic components, not built to last.

    Here are some model numbers I was looking at:

    Someone working on a VMW WTW5640 said they’d been getting a lot of strange problems on these and didn’t have high hopes for them long-term… not sure if it was just the model or all Whirlpool VMW???

    (7) People seem to have had lots of problems with Whirlpool Duets? Any opinion compared to the Bravo?

    (8) Should we just get the old fashioned Whirlpool WTW4800XQ with agitator and an accompanying dryer?

    Seriously, what would you tell your kids to buy (let’s just assume there is an authorized repair center in my area for the brand since I know that’s important)? I understand it’s just an opinion :-) Will appreciate any info just the same… I am so on info overload if you can’t tell lol.

    Thanks in advance!!! Hi Nancy Mc, I’ve enjoyed reading your posts too :-) Hope you are still enjoying your job!!!

  748. Brijitte Says:

    I was planning to wait until Black Friday to purchase… are there any new models you know of coming down the pike?

  749. Woody Says:

    Brijitte: You remind me of a T-shirt I used to love. It says “TEACHER can I be excused? My brain is full”!

    I concur with your statement:
    “It is really frustrating that CR recommendations don’t seem to match user experiences. AND, their reliability ratings list LG and Samsung at the top of the pack! They even list Kenmore over Maytag (manuf by Whirlpool I know).”

    There are many things in our society that people have in their heads that are folklore. KENMORE is not always WHIRLPOOL! The KENMORE name is a Sears branded name and Sears has put that brand on many manufactures appliances. In the dishwashers and laundry for example there are multiple manufactures that have the KENMORE brand. Lot’s of switching around over the years. Last I heard LG was building the top models (price) for Kenmore.

    With what you have told me about your choice to purchase from a specific dealer I would defer most of these questions to them and let them be held accountable for their recommendations :) . I’m too far away to tell you if purchasing used is a good idea. My gut feeling is no.

    For the price you are willing to pay at this time I’d watch for the Black Friday deals and jump into something. When comparing these products you have to keep in mind a simple philosophy which is VALUE. The best way to eat an elephant is one bite at at time. Feel free to send me back some bites to chew on as you proceed. As far as what me or my family would buy at this time it would be a Maytag or Whirlpool. Fortunately we all bought new Bosch pairs before they disappeared. As I mentioned in other posts we either bought classics or Edsels. Only time will tell. :)

  750. Brigitte Says:

    Woody, you hit that nail on the head, lol! Thank you! I appreciate your help. Just want to reassure you that I would never hold you accountable for your recommendations, and hopefully no other visitors to this site would either. I consider your feedback an informed opinion. Even if you recommended a specific model, it’s still my choice of what to do with it. Just helps us wade through all the minutia out there. You’re doing all of us a favor out here in Cyberland.

    The appliance service center sales rep (emphasis on sales) I talked to recommended either Whirlpool or Electrolux. I told him I heard Electrolux is a Frigidaire with Lipstick! He disagreed. Even though they are a service center, I don’t trust them like I have come to trust your honest opinions from reading your comments. Plus, they are also selling the products so I am cognizant of that agenda.

    They do have a floor model Bosch set for $1,925 (Washer model 6450 for $995, Dryer model 6550 for $1049.95 = $2,045 minus a $120 rebate for the $1,925 total). I was hoping to find the 6450 model so that’s awesome, but doesn’t $1,925 after rebates sound rather high at this juncture? What would you consider a fair price considering they’ve been discontinued and it’s a floor model?

    FYI for others out there… RC Willey has five 6450′s left at $949 right now. I think they will also come down by $100. I am considering renting a truck and making the 600 mile round trip to pick one up. More than likely though I will use that info to negotiate a lower price at the local mom/pop shop.

    Which Bosch model did you and your family buy? The 6450 or the 800 series?

    Should we get the pedestals? I found a set lightly used for $50 — but I thought I recalled you writing that the front loaders run better without them? We are both tall so height isn’t an issue and they will be in a garage with concrete floor.

    Finally, what do you think of Speed Queen’s quality? (Washer AWN542S and Gas Dryer Speed Queen ADG4BRG). Old fashioned top loader style with manual dials (no computers)….

  751. Woody Says:

    I did a little shopping for you. If you will call (801)567-2200 and ask for “Mr. Error”. He can sell you 6450 for $698.00.

    He can have it transferred to any R.C. Willy store closest to you (RENO or Sacramento). THEY ONLY HAVE 5 LEFT! HURRAY! They do not have any matching dryers! IF YOUR LOCAL DEALER WILL COME DOWN TO $1599 FOR THE SET THEN BUY THOSE.

    Yes, the $50 pedestal would be a great deal.

    Yes, Electrolux is Frigidaire with lipstick AND perfume :)

    I have no opinion good or bad on the Speed Queens. They possibly could be a sleeper. They prefer to be a niche brand used by dealers who compete against the big box stores. I never was a fan of their top loaders though. The front loaders may be something different.

  752. Brijitte Says:

    Thank you Woody, you’re a true gem! I’ll be on it tomorrow!

  753. Brijitte Says:

    The pedestals for the Bosch I would be buying second hand. The guy says re: part numbers…. Bosch WTZ1500 (updated p/n is WTZ1610, these are interchangable)

    Is this legit?

  754. Brijitte Says:

    Woody, my husband is pushing back on purchasing a set that has been discontinued…. he wants to know if the Bosch are expensive to repair?

    Could you also please elaborate on why you never liked the Speed Queen top loaders?

    Thank you!!!

  755. Woody Says:

    Brijitte: “The moment of absolute certainty never arrives”

    There is no longer enough Speed Queen (once was Amana also) laundry in this area to comment. In the past the problems with the washers was pumps, belts, seals, bearings and transmissions. The dryers had drum and glide problems, high limit thermostat issues and wiring burning. The machines could be completely redesigned by now. We have a few little dealers that sell them.

    As far as your husband goes I am not a marital counselor. I do know the most difficult part of being a man is knowing what the woman wants. Even when we think we know we are wrong!

    A man asked his wife what she’d like for her birthday. “I’d love to be six again,” she replied.

    On the morning of her birthday, he got her up bright and early and off they went to a local theme park. What a day! He put her on every ride in the park: the Death Slide, the Screaming Loop
    and the Wall of Fear–everything there was! Wow!

    Five hours later she staggered out of the theme park, her head reeling and her stomach upside down. Right to McDonald’s they went, where her husband ordered her a Big Mac along with
    extra fries and a refreshing chocolate shake. Then it was off to a movie – and hot dogs, popcorn, Pepsi Cola, and M & Ms. What a fabulous adventure!

    Finally she wobbled home with her husband and collapsed into bed. He leaned over and lovingly asked, “Well, dear, what was it like being six again?” One eye opened. The wife said, “You idiot, I
    meant my dress size!”

    The moral of this story is:
    If a woman speaks and a man is actually listening, he will still get it wrong.

  756. Dan Says:


    While shopping around we came across a deal from a locally owned appliance store. They have a Samsung washer/dryer set they are selling for $1000.00 (for both) WF210ANW DV210ANW and also a Frigidaire set for $1099.00 FAFW3921 FASE7021. The Frigidaire has the sanitary wash option and steam dryer option. The owner said he really liked those features. Originally we were looking at keep it simple less to repair options. My wife likes using Clorox and the salesman said the sanitary cycle would clean as good as Clorox without the negative effects of Clorox. Would you recommend either of these sets or do you have any thoughts for us to consider in our decision process. We have a best buy, home depot, and Lowes all within five miles of us, but I have not seen them selling any sets in that price range. We were planning to see what Black Friday sales other stores have, but the bearings on our Kenmore front loader (about 8 years old)are going bad fast and it is no longer spinning the clothes dry. We have a GE dryer only a few years old, but the sensor went out (stills dries with the timer cycle). We did not think it was worth the cost to repair and that has made the washer/dryer set more attractive. We have two kids at home and two in college so we figured we could probably hold on to the GE dryer and pass on to one of them. Appreciate your advice and love your stories. Thanks!

  757. Woody Says:

    Dan: My limited experience with Samsung was when they were building product for Maytag prior to Maytag going under and being bought by Whirlpool Corp. I was not impress at all. Their washer vibrated like the scene in Mr. Mom and yes, literally ripped hoses out of the wall.

    I know their recent commercials focus on being vibration free. Perhaps they have learned something.

    My other experience has been watching them try to build a service network for the product. They had growing pains but they could have correct it by now. I tried looking up parts for a piece recently and it was a headache to do it.

    The Frigidaire’s a value line. Low price, average life span. Either of these pairs is priced right. If you can find an OH WOW deal on a Maytag or Whirlpool on black Friday then I’d do that. If the 1K is your budget and I had to chose between the Frigidaire and the Samsung I’d chose the Frigidaire. That is not a recommendation, just an opinion. I hope that helps.

    Good luck Watch the Home Depot and Lowes ads for black Friday. They will be at each others throats. If I had to chose between an LG and a Samsung for the same price I’d take the LG.

  758. Brijitte Says:

    Hi again Woody,
    We are also looking for a refrigerator… I know you mentioned you liked Lowes, but the model we are looking at is sold by Home Depot and Best Buy. Do you (or anyone) have a preference between the two? We are learning toward Home Depot… Thanks!

  759. Woody Says:

    You didn’t tell us what refrigerator. It really doesn’t matter which dealer. 1st consideration if you’ve chosen the product is price. After that you KNOW they will want to sell you an extended warranty. If you are going to buy the warranty how much? Who administers the warranty. What service company choices do you have ? Return policy. Things like that. In the long run it is more likely that Home Depot will still be in business 10 years from now, but who knows ?

  760. Brijitte Says:

    Thanks Woody, all great questions! We’re not going to get the extended warranty since we’ve decided on a basic top freezer model and I’ve read that extended warranties are statistically used less than 20% of the time. I also just read a great deal of bad press about Best Buy and some analysts believe they are slowly going out of business. Home Depot it is :-)

    Happy Thanksgiving and blessings to you and your family. I am very grateful to you for this forum and your time and assistance in sharing your opinions and expertise!

  761. Julie Says:

    HELP! This is such a wonderful and helpful resource. Can anyone offer suggestions about how to handle an appliance disaster situation?

    I purchased a washer and dryer from an independent appliance dealer (thought they were a chain, but turns out they are independently owned). The washer/dryer were backordered. I called to check on the status and was told the dryer was in, they’d check on the washer… low and behold the washer had just come in and the set was delivered and I signed saying there was no damage. Mind you, the guy didn’t give me a chance to check out the appliances so I thought he had inspected them (dumb I know). Later that day, I discovered damage to the front of the washer in two places as if it had been tipped over (damage was from inside out and scratches). Coincidentally, the installer guy had been standing right in front of where the damage was… coincidence or intentional attempt to conceal the damage, I don’t know. Everything was closed, but I called and left a message. The next morning I called and reported the damage, I was told the person who handles this would get back to me the next day. They didn’t.

    Suffice to say, they gave me the run around and didn’t want to get me a new replacement. They were very disorganized – no customer service! They finally agreed to get me a new washer. It was delivered and hooked up, and just as the guy was pushing the washer into place, the big metal dolly that he had left unsecured fell over and crashed into the new washer and dryer! It was horrifying! He put them both on the truck and took them back.

    You guessed it, I didn’t hear from anyone that day, or the next day… so I called to find out what was going on and was told the driver was picking up a new set from their distributor and would be inspecting them at the distributor. They were delivered last week. (When I asked the guy if he got in trouble for leaving the dolly unsecured and the damage to the previous units, he told me he had told his manager he found the damage on the previous unit upon opening the box and that he saw the damage to the dryer which is why he picked that one up too!)

    The supposedly NEW units he delivered didn’t look right. I think they gave me returned or repaired units or floor models! The black rubber part that connects to the end of the hose was affixed (this was not the case on the two prior washers) and there was a dirt ring where it appeared to have been previously installed somewhere. The dryer assured me it was a new unit, it was like that because it had been tested (but I already knew he was dishonest so I took that with a grain of salt). The washer also had a scratch and the back rear corner was a bit mangled! It was like a bad joke! Also, the plastic side caps on the dryer don’t seal properly, as if they had been removed and replaced at some point. (and when I set it for time dry, it sometimes has a faint buzz that won’t turn off until I touch the button).

    I went ahead and accepted the set because I have been through a lot in the past three months, I am exhausted from dealing with problems, needed a washer and dryer and felt like I couldn’t wait any longer! I didn’t know what my recourse could be. I called the return person and said I was accepting the set, but that it had damage and their driver who supposedly inspected the unit before taking it from the distributor should really look more closely.

    The serial number of the first washer was 1210xxxxxx, the second one that I saw them cut from the box was 1212xxxxxx and the third one is 1211xxxxxx. Since the product was back ordered, one would think that any new unit would begin with 1212 (2012 Dec), rather than 2012 Oct or 2012 Nov…. I think the first unit I got must have been returned by someone else… and the same for the third unit… or maybe they gave me a floor model? Both boxes for the 1210 and 1211 units were already cut open upon delivery, the 1212 was the only one that the delivery guy actually had to cut himself.

    I am really upset about this. I feel like in my experience and opinion, the employees I have dealt with at this company have acted unethically and dishonestly. I also have suspicion that someone there stole my credit card info and used it fraudulently (but that’s a whole different drama).

    Is there any way I can find out from the distributor or manufacturer if I in fact got new units or previously rejected/refurbished units, or a floor model? And if so, what can I do if they really didn’t give me brand new units?

    I understand that any suggestions anyone provides are just that – suggestions. I won’t construe anything as official/professional advice. I know I should have just rejected the third unit and asked for a refund, but I think I was honestly in a state of shock and traumatized from the whole experience. I really just want to know what possible options I might have at this point or what other people might do in this situation. Thanks in advance.

  762. Woody Says:

    Julie: With all due respect why are you posting this here? Why don’t you just contact the manufacture?

    Serial numbers are not always sequential when then are warehoused. Many times the new inventory gets put in front of the old inventory so they don’t always pick the oldest serial numbers first.

  763. Richard C. Says:

    Hi Woody,

    I don’t expect a diagnosis via email, but I was just wondering if you could give some guidance on this: We have a Maytag Washer model LA412, which we have had for probably about 14 years, never a bit of trouble (just one child at home for part of that, then just my wife and I for the past 6 years, so fairly light use). Last night during the wash cycle (a rather light load), I heard a funny sound, sort of a low squealing. When I went to investigate, it was on the wash cycle, the agitator was stopped, and a burning smell started comning out of the back, kind of a burnt rubber smell, perhaps a belt? I shut it down and turned it back on a couple times but the agitator would never engage and the squealing started back up each time, so something is locked up. I was able to move the dial ahead and it drained and spun the clothes out just fine on the spin cycle so I could remove them. I have suspected that something might not be quite right lately because a couple times during the past month we noticed the washer had “walked around” a bit during the cycle because the washer was in a slightly different place when we went to unload it, like it was out of balance during the spin cycle, but the load was evenly spaced in the tub each time and we could not actually catch it moving during a cycle. I was just wondering, in your experience, does this sound like it would be worth it to call a service technician or is it time to replace it? Looking at the posts here, I’m not sure we can replace it today with something as reliable as this has been, so I’m templted to repair it it’s worth it. Thanks in advance for any insight you may have! Richard C.

  764. Woody Says:

    I love that washer and I love that model. It might be older than you think. You’ve burnt the main belt (easy to replace but us a genuine) and we usually do both at the same time. What you have to find out though is what caused the belt to burn. You could have something as simple as something caught in the tub or something major like a frozen bearing. The front is easily removed (great engineering) and you can look inside. IF you have a lot of black stuff all around in the inside of the cabinet you will have to ask a local shop what they would charge to repair it, or if there is a lot of oil under the edges down where the belts are underneath you could have a major problem. Once you get an estimate you can decide to repair it or not. Good luck. Hope it’s just a simple problem that cause the belt to burn.

  765. Nancy Says:

    HEY Woody!!! ( see me waving ?)

    I know it has been a while, but just an update on my Bosch washer and dryer. I have had it for over 2 years now and still works great. We even moved from Utah to California and not a problem.

    I hope everyone is doing great and will have a happy holiday in-spite of some people going crazy and shooting our America up !

  766. Richard C. Says:

    Woody, thanks for the help!

  767. Livia Says:

    Does anyone have any suggestions on the best brand, large cu. ft., energy saving front loader washer & dryer pair & the best place to buy them. Have looked at local flyers for the Boxing Day sale, but still not sure where to go. I live in Ontario so if anyone can give me any suggestion it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you & Merry Christmas to everyone. :)

  768. Paula Says:

    Hi everyone! I know you deal with washers & dryers…but who can I contact re whether to fix a Kitchenair
    Superba dishwasher or buy a new Bosch? any help will be appreciated..

  769. Woody Says:

    Paula, I think we would need to know what part of the country you are in before any of us could help you. A zip code would suffice.
    As far as repair on a KitchenAid goes call their 800 # and ask who their Independent PSP is. DO NOT LET them send you to A&E though.

  770. Paula Says:

    Hi Woody! Thanks for getting back to me. I live ouside of Philadelphia, area code 19002. Thanks for any help.

  771. Mac Says:

    Hi all. I have been off this site for nearly 2 years as I purchased an LG Waveforce washer with matching dryer. For the first 20 months, it was fine. Not too many complaints. Just trying to get used to the H.E. part of it all. I thought at first there was issues but in reality there was none. All was good until I received a Recall notice from Sears. Of course my washer fell into that model. I called and the tech came out and installed a new code. Since that time, it has been totally screwed up. If throws an error code of unbalanced load. I called the tech out and he said it is user error. nothing wrong with the machine. The next day, I did a load of socks and tee shirts. It took more than 6 hours until 12:30 in the morning, I had enough and pulled the plug. I called Sears and a different tech checked it out to find out there was a problem. He contacted his supervisor who told him to contact LG directly. He did and talked about the recall code is the problem. They said they would replace the unti with a brand new one but to order a part and try that. They installed it today and no good. Still the washer goes through a spin cycle and fills up each time and sometimes almost overflows with water. They said they would replace the washer with a new LG Waveforce or a comprable model. I just don’t know which one. Whirlpool? Samsung? Maytag? I understand that LG makes the Kenmore. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

  772. Tina Says:

    Hi Woody,

    I hope you’re still here! As with so many others, I was researching washer & dryers and found this site. I’ve enjoyed reading posts from you, Nancy and others. Your posts have been very helpful! I started reading from the beginning through September 2010 and just couldn’t stay awake any longer, as it was already 1:30 am. I don’t know what’s been posted since then and I’m asking for your help. Just to make sure that this information is still current, I read that you recommend the Bosch 6450 or the 800 series and preferably not from Lowe’s, Best Buy and especially not from Sears. Our landlord needs his house back at the end of April and we haven’t found a house to buy yet. Needless to say, we are moving and don’t own a washer and dryer, so we need one very soon! (we’re a family of six) Would you please help me locate one and rebates? I’ve looked and Lowe’s, Sears and Best Buy pops up. Maybe a couple places I don’t recognize by name. Also looking for good service to go with it if ever needed. Also, do you recommend buying the extended warranty? I live just north of Houston, TX. Zip code 77382. I hope to hear from you soon and thank you for your time in advance!

  773. Woody Says:

    Bosch exited the full size laundry business recently due to pricing pressures from Korean manufactures LG and Samsung who were (are) dumping product in the USA. Bosch closed down and American manufacture plant because of this. My current recommendation for laundry is Whirlpool brands. Although LG is received well I have my doubts about North Korea nuking South Korea one day and there goes your parts supply :( or product distribution. Samsung wants to be the big player in everything they do. Tough decision. Hope that helps.

  774. Leslie Says:

    Hello, I have just stumbled into your arena, since I am looking for a top loader for the sometimes larger loads. I have a front load machine and got it in 1996 and have only had one issue with the washer 5 years ago, the repair including travel and taxes was less than 150.00 and last week the belt on the dryer went… or so I assume, it sounds like it is turning, but the drum remains still, I also noticed a burned rubber smell a couple of weeks ago but it was still running until it could run no more… the brand of this incredible machine is ASKO and it is made in Sweden…my favourite thing is it heats the water in the tub as it washes and you can dial the temperature from 0 to 2oo + (too lazy to go and look )
    I love this feature and highly recommend it… it was out here in Canada before anyone really knew front loaders could be for home use.. I saw the demo for it at the PNE in Vancouver and the following year at the Calgary Stampede 3 months later I put on in my laundry area and built a platform to raise them up even though I could stack them…the stacking bar was included…

    I have found a top loader and dryer used 1 year for almost nothing,I hope the washer is as reliable as the (then) 20 year oid Inglis I gave away 20 years ago, same brand different year! who knows?? LOL! it is a larger size for the basement for the 1 or 2 large loads per month and will still use my Asko for the more reasonable things…it will do the large quilts bit just one at a time.
    Take a good long look at the Asko I paid a lot for it in 1996 and they are still around the same price today, BTW NO MOLD or smell issues here because of the way the steel rim protects the rubber from inside the washer….or something like that!

    Also I always use vinegar in the rinse water, saves on softeners and it cleans out all the soap from the clothes and the washer too…you will be surprised as how soft your towels will become after a couple of washes and all soap residue is gone and they are once again absorbant … besides vinegar is a natural disinfectant, but I know most of you already know that… my thought is it might help retard the mold and odour problems I have been reading about
    with the western made FL’s….
    Sorry to have gone on so, just adding my experiences.

  775. Jeanne Says:

    Great site! I need to replace 20 year old washer and dryer for my home. Just two of us. I live in 14526. I have Lowes, Home Depot, Sears. I cant decide between front and top loaders. What models do you recommend. Don’t want to pay a lot for extra bells and whistles. Thanks!!

  776. Jeanne Says:

    Anybody have details or experience with the Maytag Centennial dryer and washer??

  777. Woody Says:

    I’m leaving this tread because the spammers have taken over. Happy shopping :)

  778. Earl Says:

    I am a CPA specializing in income taxes. There is no Federal tax credit for the purchase of appliances. The credit only applies to insulation materials, doors, roofs, windows, solar powered property and certain heating systems.

  779. Nancy Says:

    Woody !!!! see me waving

    My 3 year old Bosch 6450 washer is leaking,remember we bought it when we moved to Draper. We now live in California. It leaks out the bottom. We have checked the hoses and and they are dry. When we turn the water off it does not leak. Help

  780. Mia Says:

    I HATE my front loader washer & dryer. We just bought them about 4 years ago. First my washer started to leak from the door, it was replaced by a new machine but not the same brand. As soon as the warranty was up, the piece that keeps the rubber seal on fell off. To get a new warranty will cost me over $300 or get someone in to fix it will cost the same. The parts will cost half that if not more. Now the latch for the dryer door won’t connect so the door won’t shut. UGH!! It is really sad that companies make their products to only last a couple of years. Maybe we should all go back to washing clothes with a rock. Oh, & make sure you leave the door open to your front load washer & dry it good after every use or you will get mold on the rubber seal.

  781. lori Says:

    Hi Woody! I think it’s awful that people have spammed your great site. My Bosh washer and dryer (800 series) are three years old now, and still working as they did when they were brand new. I have had no problem with odors, and keep the washer door open when not in use. Now we are looking for a counter depth refrigerator, but I don’t know if you advise on those. I hope you are well!

  782. appliancejournal Says:

    Hi all. Sorry about the spam. All cleaned up and back to normal! Thanks. -ApplianceJournal.com

  783. Gigi Says:

    Hi, we have old Maytag for over 10 years. They work fine but we are moving into a new home with a nice indoor laundry room and the units look horrible and beat up. They had been in the garage this whole time and we hadn’t taken good care of it cosmetically. I don’t want to buy new washer dryer after reading this post. Can one refurnished washer/dryer for cosmetics?

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  787. Repair Question? Post it in the Forum

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