Why Kenmore Front Load Washers Fail
Wed, Sep 5, 2007
Why do Kenmore front load washers fail shortly after their warranty expires? A rusted drum support, a drum screw cutting through plastic tub, etc. This excellent video clip, courtesy of a youtube user tanksalotct, shows how and why Kenmore front load washers fail. Check it out for yourself and share your experience by commenting below.
Metal inner tub with spider assembly
GE part number WH45X10006 (average price is $299)
Frigidaire part number 131618500 (average price is $230, AppliancePartsPros price is 194.50, link: http://www.appliancepartspros.com/part_details.aspx?part_id=2107258&pn_=131618500)
Rear outer tub and bearing assembly
GE part number WH45X10007 (average price is $320)
Frigidaire part number 131525500 (average price is $176, AppliancePartsPros price is $159.95, link: http://www.appliancepartspros.com/part_details.aspx?part_id=2578105&pn_=131525500)
Popularity: 74% [?]
September 13th, 2007 at 1:20 pm
I just finished installing the Rear shell/bearing and the inner spin tub in my front load Kenmore after 5-6hours work overall and $367. Had to buy the separate parts from “Reliable Parts” here in Canada even though Sears carries the whole assembly (complete shell with spin tub inside). They will not sell the assembly - it’s only for their techs to install as a flat priced repair ($500-$600).
This all could have been avoided if we had known about the powdered detergent problem, which we were’nt told about and is not in our manual - it’s eight years old and has been getting louder over the last year. Spider bracket was still OK but bearing and shaft were a mess. Thanks for the info. I used the instructions at: http://www.applianceaid.com/417_Frigidaire_washer.html
October 19th, 2007 at 4:02 am
i have the same promblem
November 14th, 2007 at 7:03 pm
do the other two with the same problem also use powedered det.? what do the three long screws fasten to the inside of the drum?
November 24th, 2007 at 2:38 pm
`i just ordered kenmore front loader and im waiting delivery will i be sorry
December 24th, 2007 at 3:30 am
Our GE Gallery front load washer is now 7-1/2yrs old and has been getting noisier over the past year or so. I suppose the bearing is gone, maybe more and from what I have read I will have to at least replace the inner half of the tub. When I rotate the SS tub by hand it feels very rough and bumpy, there is no leak so far. I’m regretting buying into this hole front load system, we paid over a $1000 for this thing and expected at least 20 yrs service from it, so much for the “savings”.
January 15th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Any suggestions for those of us who just purchased this machine?
January 16th, 2008 at 12:21 am
Well it looks like the only fix is the replacement of the inner tub at the very least, at a cost of about $200 for parts alone. Mine although is noisy is still functioning otherwise normally with no leaks although I think it’s only a matter of time. Till then I’m going to continue using it as it is then will take it apart and evaluate. So far it seems like no one has been able to replace the bearing on it’s own, that’s too bad because I have a good source for bearings (would cost about $10!). louis
January 19th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
For those who have recently bought these machines, I think you are probably better off as long as you are using the correct detergent (HE liquid)
January 19th, 2008 at 1:21 pm
I have been using liquid detergent from day one, never powder so I’m afraid that alone is not enough to ward off the bearing distruction.
January 25th, 2008 at 4:10 am
I can’t believe I am reading this!
For my own particular reasons, I thought I would google “bearing recall kenmore washer” and I’m lead directly to this website.
We purchased our washer in 2002
The spider drum failed in 2005. The entire drum assembly was replaced. I don’t recall that the repair was warranteed.
Aparently, the bearing and the shock damper failed last week, of which I’m told is not under warrantee.
$450 was the repair quote.
We have always used liquid detergent but I was advised today by the repairman that we should be using the HE type?
I am going to make sure I have a good look at the guts of this thing when they go to fix it.
Any suggestions?
January 25th, 2008 at 10:19 am
Sorry to hear about your trouble, Sean.
One thing I wanted to point out is that Kenmore is just a brand owned by Sears. All Kenmore appliances are made by other manufacturers. At present time, there are at least two different brands of front load washers sold under the Kenmore brand - one made by Whirlpool and another made by Electrolux (Frigidaire). You can tell by checking the model number prefix (look for a small tag on the washer). 110 means Whirlpool, 417 means Electrolux/Frigidaire.
Sounds like yours is made by Frigidaire. If so, check your warranty paperwork. You may still have warranty on the basket (part only), in which case you would only have to pay for labor.
Using HE detergent with front load washers is strongly recommended by most manufacturers, and from what I hear it does help.
January 25th, 2008 at 11:55 am
Blaming detergent for bearing failure is pretty ridiculous if you ask me, for those who do use it and don’t have a problem they’re just plain lucky, I wasn’t. Sorry but “helps” does not sound good enough to me.
February 5th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Louis - I did find an article on-line last night with info on replacing just the bearings on these Kenmore 417 front loaders. It was a .pdf download. Don’t have it here, but will check at home later and post the link here.
February 6th, 2008 at 3:38 am
Michael, that sounds great, thanks. I have to do something soon, it is getting REALLY noisy, thumping loudly and it’s a matter of time before it starts leaking water. ……..Louis
February 6th, 2008 at 11:59 am
Here’s the link to the thread. There are two links to .pdf files with detailed instructions and the bearing part numbers. I think the second is the one I downloaded.
http://www.applianceblog.com/mainforums/showthread.php?t=237
February 6th, 2008 at 9:49 pm
Michael thank you for doing this, although it doesn’t give detailed instructions on actual bearing removal it does go into detail on taking it apart to that point. This is what I needed to know, that once apart the bearings can be replaced on their own, I’ll be able to remove them once all is apart. I suppose I should get a tub seal ahead of time? ……Louis
February 13th, 2008 at 2:30 am
My husband and I bought a the Kenmore He2 Washer in July of 2006 and it’s dying!!! We are so frustrated. We didn’t purchase the two year warranty at the time–and now we are so bummed. It’s so foolish that they can sell an $800.00 washer that dies in 1 1/2 years. Anyone else experience this? We’ve been reading other blogs that said it was the motherboard–I wish they would just recall the stupid machine! We bought the matching dryer and it works just fine. What can we do? Just pay hundreds of dollars in repairs?
February 18th, 2008 at 12:51 pm
Thanks for the video clip. This is exactly the problem we have with our Kenmore Front Load which was manufactured in April 2003. I took the machine apart yesterday before watching the video. Two of the arms on the Spider bracket are broken. We also had shredded plastic from the outer tub in our last load but the screws did not cut the whole way through. We went out last evening and bought a Maytag. Anyone need parts off my Kenmore (Model 417.43142200). The motor is fine and all circuit boards?
February 18th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
I have this Kenmore FrontLoad I bought 2 years ago burt just went bad weeks after the warranty expired. I have the Elite HE4t. Please Kenmore products are being recalled. I won’t advice anyone to buy Kenmore again.
February 29th, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Well finally did it, took the darn machine apart, found the expected bad bearings but also found one of the spider arms broken. At $400 for these two items (just parts) I refused to put that kind of money into it. I knocked the bearings out and found replacements at a local bearing supplier. As for the arm I braced it to the others as well as screwed to the tub but unfortunetly what I feared was the case. It was great, quiet and smooth until the final super fast spin where it was obvious the drum is now out of balance and rocking and making a racket, but machine doesn’t move. I’m leaving it until it just explodes at this point or won’t go anymore, maybe a month maybe a year but I am not going through all that work again and definetly not going to put money into at this point. My point now is if you’re capable of dismantling it you can replace just the bearings as long as the spider arm is not broken. As soon as the bearing start “howling” (getting loud at spin) is the time to do them, if you wait until they’re really loose (you can actually move drum side to side by hand)then the spider arm will break and the inner drum will also scrape through the plastic tub. The bearings cost me $50 for the set, I re-used the gasket between the tub halves with no problems. Michael thanks again for the thread on the thorough instruction for the work.
February 29th, 2008 at 7:01 pm
Well our GE Front loader washer after 6 yrs started making a ton of noise during the spin cycle. Figuring it was the rear bearing I took it apart but only to find that the bearing would have been ok if the spider bracket hadn’t broken two of it’s arms. Downer it that the spider bracket is not sold by itself. You have to buy the whole Tub-Spin assembly. ($300-$400) depending on who you talk to. But also need to replace the rear bearing since it was leaking too, another $300, so might as well buy a new washer. Unless anyone might know of a source to obtain just the spider bracket.
Cheers!
March 1st, 2008 at 2:33 am
Scott the bearings can be knocked out easy enough once the drum is apart, no need to buy inner tub. There are a lot of bearing suppliers that can easily match them (with better bearings I might add). The rear spider here is $199 canadian, this includes the entire stainless drum, where did you get 300-400?
March 1st, 2008 at 4:03 am
Louis, Thanks for the quick reply. The $300-400 is from the geappliance.com website. Tub-Spin assembly (WH45X10006) price $399.50 US. I found another site appliancepartspros.com with it listed at $297.48 US. OK, the big question then is, do you think it’s worth trying to save this 6 yr old washer? Thanks again.
March 1st, 2008 at 7:35 am
I wouldn’t spend $300 on a GE washer, IMHO. GE makes good jet engines, appliances however are not so great. Again, my opinion only.
March 1st, 2008 at 1:08 pm
I agree, this is why I replaced the bearings on their own at a cost of $50 and patched the spider arm for now, when it quits all together it’s going to the junk yard and never will I buy one again.
March 4th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
Thanks to all for your good info.
I’m in the same boat - loud knocking during the spin cycle - reviewed all the above info, took washer apart and found that the spider arm is broken.
So, I think I’m going to replace the bearing for $50 and the spider arms for $199 since $250 is much cheaper than an new washer, and I should get another 5 years out of it (hopefully
Anyone know who to contact to get that spider assembly with the drum for $199? I’m in Ontario.
Thanks!!
March 4th, 2008 at 10:33 pm
I sent this to Sears Corporate!
The link below shows why Sears has ripped of millions of patriotic Americans who have purchased Sears Appliances only to be disappointed with Sears’s corporate policy, by design ripping off the consumer with a costly repair scheme, to fix a defective product and design, on it face! The reality of buying a defective product, at considerable cost only to have it, “shit the bed,” in a major way is unacceptable and epitomized the scumbag mentality of corporate slime, preoccupied with profit while $ucking the consumer hard, with inferior products. Imagine driving down the road and the front wheel falls off your car after five years. I paid over a $1000.00 for a front-load Kenmore Washing Machine. only to get sodomized by SEARS
http://www.appliancejournal.com/appliance-repair-help/washer-repair/why-kenmore-front-load-washers-fail-271/
1) Sear does not sell just.. spider bracket and spindle? What the hell???
2) My stainless steel inner basket is fine! I do not need another one! Thanks but no thanks!!
3) I can buy my own rear bearings and replace them without getting raped in the process!!
4) Nice screw job with the “over sized steel screw” which scores the outer plastic tub from the inside rendering it useless and trash bound!
5) To sell replacement parts which are not upgraded to address “ACKNOWLEDGED” underlying design defects is fraud and a is crime.
If you want to know what is wrong with AMERICA TODAY!!
It’s BULLSHIT LIKE THIS! Buy American and get screwed in the process? What classless “behavior” for an American Corporation, once respected, but respected no more!!
An American………….
March 5th, 2008 at 1:14 am
Jeff, any local appliance repair shop can order it for you. I called sears (where I bought mine) and they gave me a list of service centers and I called one, he told me $199.00 and had to be ordered. Online I found a couple of places that had it as well but of course there is shipping involved. Make sure your seal is good and water is not going to leak through to the bearings, you can probably order one at the same time, a bearing supply place may have the seal as well if you take it in with you. BTW, grind down the three screws poking through the inner drum before re-assembly, the ones that likes to gouge out the outer tub when bearings go bad. Also the best way to instal the boot to tub would be while tub assembly is out of the machine, this would mean detaching the boot from the front of the washer completely. You have to carefully cut free the boot from the washer, I re-installed it and didn’t use any glue and it stays in place. The repair guy said you can use a bit of crazy glue at a few spots to hold it in, I would think a little contact cement may also work.
March 8th, 2008 at 2:04 am
Having replaced many bearings in the Kenmore front loaders, one thing is a constant. This washer is made by Fridgadaire for Sears. It is the same FLW with the Fridgadaire name on it. The reason for early failure seems to be the use of high suds (non HE) soap with ALL customers who had this work done. The screw in the basket holds the baffles in place.
All appliances break. Today all appliances are not constructed as they were 20 years ago. The reason is that the price of the product hasn’t really increased to cover inflation. Something gave and cheaper materials was the only thing that could be controlled. This is true of all appliances today. What used to be serviced in 7-8 years is now being serviced in 3-5.
March 8th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
I have the same prob. as most of you. My 417.43142200 model Kenmore washer just gave out. It just started knocking loudly the other day during the fast spin cycle. Shortly after, we put another load in and it made the knocking sound during regular wash cycle. I was surprised so many people were having the same problem and only after five to six years of function. I was very happy to see the youtube.com post by tanksalotct. It has made my decision to service or scrap my washer a lot easier. My time is very valuable, and to spend two to three hundred dollars in parts alone for a washer I paid six hundred for is ridiculous. You might find it interesting to know that I called a repair man who worked on ac units, washers, dryers, etc., for over forty years. He said that Frigidaire-made Kenmore units are pieces of junk (by experience now, I say he’s right). He also said that Maytag, formerly top of the line quality, was bought out and now is also junk. He recommends buying Whirlpool, but I am currently looking at some LG washers and dryers. I have read good customer reviews of them which were much more highly reviewed than Whirlpool. It is a cop out to say that you can’t keep up with inflation; therefore, cheap quality construction and parts are implemented. If the price one company charges for a washer, let’s say, is $2500.00 and never has a hiccup for over twenty years and a competitor only charges $800.00 for a hunk of tin that breaks every five or six years, which one do you think the consumer would rather buy from? I guess the guy or gal who likes to waste liftime repairing or replacing cheap crap might think they are saving money, but my lifetime is limited. I will spend good money on someting that will last allowing me time to spend with friends and family, not loosing my religion on previously proud American name brands. I’m sorry if this sounds like a rant. I had to vent somewhere. No more Kenmore for this fella.
March 9th, 2008 at 4:10 am
No more for me as well, very disappointed with what I ended up with.
March 10th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
The screws which fix the baffle to the inside of the inner tub extends considerably “longer” than required. I’m surprised “corporate bean counters” spent to much money on screws! The necessity of repair is guaranteed, once the sub standard bearings or spider bracket fails! The money which could have been saved by using “shorter screws” might have been “earmarked” for more resilient bearings and spider brackets? Your statement concerning the “longevity” of appliances manufactured; “…all appliances today. What used to be serviced in 7-8 years is now being serviced in 3-5,” again affirms an “underlying problem.” Yes appliances do break, but this is absurd. Both the manufacturer and retailers should be accountable for the marketing of $1000.00 plus FLWs requiring considerable repair costs, many within five years! This is just wrong! It is the classic rip off, fortunately absent the effects of products like, defective m-16s, exploding in the faces of GI’s firing weapon, while under fire!
March 11th, 2008 at 3:04 am
This has been informative, disheartening and also confirming. Thanks for taking the time and effort to expose this fraud. I stumbled onto your video looking for parts for a front-loader Kenmore washer we purchased in the summer of 2005 for our states side house -we spend summers out of the country -using the machine only during the winter months for 3 adults. Two days ago,less than the three year mark - more like a full year of use, the machine refused to drain or spin. I’ve spent the past two days, taking the machine apart - perhaps its the control board or the pump drain -if I do the repairs -a total of $250.00 in parts without labor- impossible to know unless I have a Sears repairman come to check for 75.00 plus the hourly rate. Sooo, after what I have to look forward to, I should jump ship. Ironic that Sears spends lots of energy advertising its Quality Service - that’s obviously because they sell crappy products and they know it -seems deliberate and intentional to me. Growing up and as a young wife, we had Kenmore/Sears appliances that lasted and lasted and lasted and we loved buying from Sears.
I will never buy another appliance or vacuum, tractor, or TV from Sears.
What have others done about this consumer fraud? I got Sears Holding Corp.CEO’s name and address to write a nasty letter, which will go into the round file, I’m sure.
I understand the anger and frustration -now I have to pay to have this machine picked up- because it’s too heavy for me to lift - trucked to the recycle and pay for its disposal- what a crime - at so many levels.
March 11th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Brenda,
I’ve got a brand new control board you can try.
e-mail me at muhley@hotmail.com if you’re interested - not sure how close we are with shipping.
Jeff
March 12th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Thank you - how thoughtful- I have a confession to make. Dave and I uncovered the drain pump,because my internet searches led me to suspect a problem, and to our amazement, there was a dental floss pick wedged in the propeller of the pump assembly. We removed it, put the machine back together- and it’s running again. Who knows for how long. So in this case, my condemnation of Sears seems unjustified, except that the front cover is shot- cracked and finally broke into two pieces over the soap dispenser within a few months of purchase, the door hinges are rusted and there is surface corrosion in several places - what an adventure. This actually doesn’t change my conviction that I need to avoid Sears as a shopping outlet. I will be much more cautious in general.
Brenda
March 12th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
Brenda I don’t want to rain on your parade but the bearings and spider arm will most definitely break sooner or later. Sorry
March 13th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
I’ve no doubt that that’s true - if it last another 6 months,I’ll be relieved.We hope to market our house in NH this spring. Unfortunately, I purchased a new stove, refrigerator, washer and dryer last August which we moved to our Nova Scotia house- I’ll most likely have similar issues there- hopefully we’ll have a couple of years without repairs.
Brenda
March 15th, 2008 at 6:28 pm
I’m finding myself in a quandry here to find a replacement washer since I’ve got limited space for a washer/dryer set. I’m needing something that’s no more than 26″ deep but that kind of forces me into the 3.1 cu ft. front load washers. And quess what, all that I’ve found is made by GE (the model that’s gone after 6 yrs), Frigidaire or Kenmore. But they’re all basically same washer made by Frigidaire with the inharient problem of poor drum design (Spider arm unprotected from corrosion and eventual structural failure).
Step up to a 3.5 cu ft washers and the same concern exists since they all are made by Frigidaire.
My question to everyone is what are you replacing your washers with????
March 16th, 2008 at 12:44 am
We’ve had the same question and have started to research option. This website is interesting.
http://www.kelkoo.co.uk/co_3368-washing-machine-washer-dryer-guide-washing-machine-washer-dryer-buyers-guide.html
We’re thinking this may even lead to a search for machines made by hotpoint, bosch, etc in the US. We also intent to check on Japanese models - they are smaller and seem to has fewer repairs- according to my Japanese daughter-in-law. I’m interested in other ideas as well.
Brenda
March 16th, 2008 at 1:20 pm
George,
Nice call. Detergents use is the problem?? This is a text book rip-off. The denial and refusal to admit this inherent structural design, is by design and is “scumbag behavior.” A substandard spider bracket of poor quality is the problem! Consumers have again been screwed by corporate scum. Bend over and smile while when sodomized!!
March 16th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
I don’t buy the detergent use as a problem either, I used the proper liquid stuff from day one, I had no leaks and yet spider arm is broken and bearings worn. The place I bought the replacement bearings from told me the original bearings were of junk Chinese quality, worth maybe $2! Local repair guy showed me one he had in for service that had the bearings still good but the spider was broken in 2 places, the machine was 4 yrs old. Junk, and after the known problem for so long now you’ld think they change something, they’re still the same design! Ha, reminds me of the Chrysler transmission issue that went on for so long. Well we’re free to shop elsewhere and that’s what I plan on doing thank you very much.
March 21st, 2008 at 4:48 am
I bought a kemnore in nov 01, by dec 03 the spider bracket was broken on 2 arms, i did get the ex warrenty but only once, in dec they tried to sell it to me again (I declined) and this march 08 it broke again!! Repairman says it is a result of well water damaging the bracket. I’m so validated to find this sight after searching for 3 days on the internet for a replacement machine. How can Sears sell the same part for 8 years in a row to fix obvious reacurrent problems? I dont need a drum!! I wonder if i could get one of the local farm machienists to fabricate a better spider thingy and put in a new berring cheeper, 7 years with a house of 8 is a lot of laundry but…How do we know another model hasnt made the same obvious slipup, and still refuse to reassess it. the reviews out there are really bad on most machines now and id rather spend that $ on a big tv, wouldnt u? maybe a washboard in front of a big screen…
March 22nd, 2008 at 12:53 am
Ours just died a different death but we suspect the bearing as the source of the problem. Suddenly three days ago it sounded like it was spinning the cement blocks I know are inside it. We turned it off and then on again and it seemed fine. I did another load and all seemed fine till it began to spin counterclockwise - rocks again– LOUD–VERY VERY LOUD!
When we opened it up our plastic drum had two big pieces about the size of a paper plate broken right off the “corner” . We could actually look down inside and see the water sloshing around. Haven’t looked for parts yet. Not sure if I want to repair this one or find another similar one (I’ve LOVED this machine!!). I am on my third one in 19 years though — the first one came with the house and seemed to have 60s vintage literature. There are seven of us but I had hoped for more “mileage” than this.
Anyone interested in shipping us the back half of your unscored plastic tub before you dump it all in recycling?
March 22nd, 2008 at 1:33 am
I have an extra back half, I think I also kept the front half but I’m in Toronto, Ontario Canada, don’t know where you’re at but i have no use for it. It’s from a Frigidaire Gallery, probably same as the GE and Kenmore. Make sure the spider is not broken before you go any further.
March 26th, 2008 at 10:29 pm
My frigidaire front loader started knocking yesterday and fortunatley I found this site. took it apart today and the spider bracket is broken. it is corroded just like yours in the video. never used powdered soap only liquid. it is covered however with slimy detergent residue. can the spider bracket be bought seperately? was wondering if it had been coated in a plastic covering maybe it would not corrode. bought it in 2001.
March 27th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
just found a drum and bracket online for $219.00 includes shipping and tax. will fix it myself and hope for another seven years. the company i bought it off said he sells a couple a week and hears the same complaint about not being able to buy just the bracket. says the 25 year warranty on the drum does not cover the bracket but you can’t buy the seperatley.frigidaire and kenmore are taking a beating online and loosing alot of customers. this should have been recalled.
March 27th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Would you be willing to share your source for drum and bracket for $219?
Those of you who have repaired yours with this part, are there any other parts you would recommend getting at the same time?
Our plastic seal, top left side, got blown apart last week. I have assumed it was the bearing and spider arms like everyone else’s but I’m wondering if it could have been the shocks/springs? Does anyone have experience with those? I wonder at their difficulty of repair and their price.
The industrial front load machines at the laundromat yesterday did not spin as dry as my Frig 417… I’ve gotten seven years for seven people out of mine. Was hoping for lots more though.
Couldn’t find HE detergent anywhere at the grocery store.
March 27th, 2008 at 7:57 pm
Sear refuse to sell just the spider bracket. Frigidaire / Sears / Kenmore are crooks. They have ripped off countless people with this scam. A review of my owners manual revealed nothing about HD detergents. Just another bold faced lie by corporate jerks avoiding accountability for a piss poor design. The fact is that the inner tub when spinning inside the outer plastic shell/tub has not exposed people to the dangers of fast spinning metal. Because no major bodily injuries have occurred, or have been buried, this precludes a product liability suit or safety recall. Defects are usual identified when people die or are maimed! Drive a “Pinto” lately!!! Sears sucks!!!
March 27th, 2008 at 11:41 pm
Jim, are you doing the bearings as well, probably should because you don’t want them going and taking the spider arm out again. You can source the bearings on their own through a bearing supplier and they’re easy to pop out.
March 28th, 2008 at 12:02 am
Cindy…
My spider arms recently went and I was able to get a drum from a month old machine that was trashed for other reasons. This was flukey for me, but I was about to get the part from Sears. I was told from Sears that the entire rear drum assembly was $152 - this includes the inner stainless steel drum installed in the rear outer drum with new bearings. You’ll have to call Sears, setup an appointment with their Techs but tell them to call to confirm (Sears won’t give the Tech’s ph. # for you to call them). When they do call, tell them you just want to pick up the part from them for that price - don’t have them come out because it will cost you a $75 service call to tell you what you already know. I replaced mine and it’s really not too bad of a job (and I had to pop in new bearings - this assembly will save you some time). If you spend $152 and get another 5-7 years I think that’s not too bad.
Also, I read on another site that a guy in Winnipeg got the whole drum, including the front outer tub, for the same price. You may want to ask Sears what the price is for the complete drum, and if it’s $152 then just buy it and save yourself a ton work!
I love Sears!!! (…kidding)
March 28th, 2008 at 2:10 am
Funny, new inner stainless steel tub with spider bracket attached $199.99 “Sears”
Other suppliers $260.00
Rear outer tub with bearings 172.00 “Sears”
Entire inner/outer tub assemblies $417.00
Sears will “not” sell just “spider bracket/shaft”
Sears will not sell inner/outer tub assembly.
Jeff said:
“I was told from Sears that the entire rear drum assembly was $152 - this includes the inner stainless steel drum installed in the rear outer drum with new bearings.”
This price is too cheap $152 and does not jive with what I have experienced with Sears. If I could have gotten out of this rip off for $152.00 I’d have done it. Frigidaire’s spider bracket’s design and metal is garbage. This is the bottom line. The reason they have gotten away with this is the protections the outer plastic affords. Most recalls happen when it is to late for the consumer. Drive a Ford Pinto lately? “All I want is a new spider bracket!” Just sell me a new spider bracket please………………..
March 28th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Cindy the web site is frigidaireparts.com have your model # ready.
March 28th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Cindy Iam sorry it is frigidairepartscenter.com
March 28th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Ditto……I have a Kenmore front load Model 970-C41032-00 purchased in Ontario, Canada approximately in 2003/4 which expired (after the warranty expired approximately a year ago) and I am now attempting to fix. On disassembly I confirm that two arms of the Sider Bracket Assembly were broken and the whole assembly was completely corroded all over wwith pockmarks.
The engineering on this spider arm is inept to have a all metal part deteriorate in this way from an enviroment no chemically harsher than detergents. Obviously, the part is not undersized initially but the failure was induced due to chemical corrosion.
Then to have the public pay for this mistake is unconcionable. There should be a recall or credit from SEARS for the spider arm assembly by now.
March 28th, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Louis I took your advise and removed the bearings. replaced them at local shop for $19.00. what about the seal did you reuse or replace? were can a replacement be found?
March 28th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
James,
Where did you get the bearings? I called a bearing supplier and the person quoted me a price of 100.00 for both inner and outer rear bearing and seal. Seems rather ridiculous 100 bucks for bearings. Needless to say I did get bearings yet! Suggestions?
March 28th, 2008 at 7:18 pm
James I got mine at bearing service co. http://www.bearing-service.com Warren, Ohio they have other locations. they were able to match the numbers on the bearings couldn’t help with the seal.
March 28th, 2008 at 10:40 pm
It’s very unfortunate, to say the least, that both the spider arm and the bearing kit are not available separately. For those of you that would like to proceed with the repair, the information below might be helpful.
First, there are several GE front load washer models that were made by Frigidaire and use the SAME EXACT tub, bearing, spider arm, etc. These models are SH208W0WW, WCCH404V0WW, WPXH214A0CC, WPXH214A0WW, WPXH214F0CC, WPXH214F0WW, WSXH208A0WW, WSXH208A1WW, WSXH208F0WW, WSXH208T0WB, WSXH208V0WW, WSXH208V1WW. If you purchase these parts under GE’s name, you are paying additional markup. So, below is a cross reference from GE part numbers to Frigidaire part numbers for the “inner tub / spider assembly” and the “rear outer tub and bearing assembly”. I have also checked the price on these two items with 8 different part suppliers, including Sears, and at the moment AppliancePartsPros.com has the lowest price on both items. I am including the price and a direct link to the items below as well. Keep in mind, and as previously mentioned, Kenmore models starting with a 417 prefix are also made by Frigidaire. Disclaimer: AppliancePartsPros.com is a sponsor of ApplianceJournal. Sponsor or not, they do have the best deal on these items. Feel free to check using the part numbers below.
Metal inner tub with spider assembly
GE part number WH45X10006 (average price is $299)
Frigidaire part number 131618500 (average price is $230, AppliancePartsPros price is $194.50, link: http://www.appliancepartspros.com/part_details.aspx?part_id=2107258&pn_=131618500)
Rear outer tub and bearing assembly
GE part number WH45X10007 (average price is $320)
Frigidaire part number 131525500 (average price is $176, AppliancePartsPros price is $159.95, link: http://www.appliancepartspros.com/part_details.aspx?part_id=2578105&pn_=131525500)
AppliancePartsPros charges $4.95 for economy shipping, no extra charge for these oversized items.
Whether or not there is going to be a recall or a class action lawsuit on this problem as always depends on the number of complaints, among other things. If you feel strongly about this issue, read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_action#United_States and take action.
March 28th, 2008 at 11:58 pm
I re-used the seal, I wasn’t having leaking problem and the person whom I purchased the bearings from said it looked fine. $19 for bearings is good assuming they were good quality, mine cost %50 for the pair but was assured they were very good quality, we’ll see.
March 31st, 2008 at 3:46 pm
James,
Thanks for the bearings link…… Appliance Journal,
Thank you for the the cross reference numbers and the links provide for those who can do the repairs themselves. However, I respectfully disagree with the following statement:
“Its very unfortunate, to say the least, that both the spider arm and the bearing kit are not available separately.” It is more than unfortunate! The fact that so many Frigidaire manufactured spider It is not limited to just Kenmore, Sears, and retailers! It is and was not an oversight, the poor design of the bracket and refusal to sell to consumers separately bearings and and/or spider bracket is intended and by design!arm assemblies are use by brand names like GE serves to further underscore the size of the problem:
“First, there are several GE front load washer models that were made by Frigidaire and use the SAME EXACT tub, bearing, spider arm, etc. These models are SH208W0WW, WCCH404V0WW, WPXH214A0CC, WPXH214A0WW, WPXH214F0CC, WPXH214F0WW, WSXH208A0WW, WSXH208A1WW, WSXH208F0WW, WSXH208T0WB, WSXH208V0WW, WSXH208V1WW.” (12 different models just for GE?
How many unsuspecting people have been gamed here, most of all the “mother(s) with child” tending to three hellions on the loose, with piles of laundry mounting, the size of Mt Everest! It is almost “to easy,” a con man would say! A class action law suit is warranted, but we all know the “Federal Courts” historically protect corporations from the “anger” and damage inflicted on consumers. Maybe the Federal Reserve will step in to save Frigidaire/ Sears and GE just like they did Bear/Stearns, while the little guys gets screwed and tattooed, again!!!! What a racket! Is America a nation of Enrons?
March 31st, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Appliance recalls and class action suits are really not that uncommon. GE, Maytag and ASKO all had major recalls issued on some of their dishwashers last year. And of course, who could forget the Maytag Neptune fiasco from a few years ago. I think if a point is proved valid by enough consumers, or at least a very willing law firm, the results will follow. Whether you’d be happy with these results is a different story - see our coverage and consumer comments on the ASKO dishwasher recall: http://www.appliancejournal.com/appliance-recall-information/asko-dishwashers-recalled-due-to-fire-hazard-released-06-14-2007-257/.
April 1st, 2008 at 3:18 pm
WHY WOULD ANYBODY PURCHASE A NEW SPIDER BRACKET WITH NEW STAINLESS STEEL INNER TUB WHEN FOR THE BETTER PART OF 200 HUNDRED DOLLARS WHEN:
1)I DO NOT NEED A NEW TUB. OLD ONE IS FINE ??????
2)UNDERLYING STRUCTURAL DEFECT,CHEAP METAL SPIDER ARMS STILL EXISTS?????
3)I’LL BE MAKING THE SAME REPAIR IN 5 YEARS OR LESS???
QUITE FRANKLY I’M NOT THE PROBLEM HERE!!! THIS IS STUPID! STUPIDITY AND CORPORATE GREED ARE THE PROBLEM HERE! Frigidaire the manufacturer is a thief!!!
April 2nd, 2008 at 3:24 am
Ok… so after ranting and researching for more than a week and the laundry is PILING up; I found a part 26970134453200 it is from the sears canadian parts counter, $160 inc tax (Alberta) this part is the whole assembly unit, inner, outer front back drum, spider berrings and pully. it is listed as a kit and the # is not supposed to exist, but it does. ? Online parts lists it as a rear outer tub. If you phone sears to order it they wont, because you have to be a tec to get it, but if you find a Sears parts wharehouse that has it in stock, (call the 1800# ), have them look for it in your area, flash the $ you walk out with it. The innards of the same old junky broken washer, and due to break again in ??? years (well water) this is my second!! Ok, so i hope you all can get this. My hubby and I put it in last night, the old spider bracket was really corroded and broken. My warrenty replaced it in 2005, I guess im supposed to expect it to last? Best of wishes on your decisions to keep /repair/ or relpace.
April 2nd, 2008 at 10:44 am
“I found a part 26970134453200 it is from the sears canadian parts counter, $160 inc tax (Alberta) this part is the whole assembly unit, inner, outer front back drum, spider berrings and pully. it is listed as a kit and the # is not supposed to exist, but it does. ?”
So what you are saying is that Sears sells this part for $160.00 while the same part is available to the consumer for #417.00, from other vendors? It does beg the question, if this part is available for 160.00, why are people being charged so much?
Everything on my washer works except for the disintegrated spider bracket. The bearings are fine, the inner tub is fine, the outer tub is fine. The baffle screws did pierce and score the inside of the outer shell. (Quicksteel epoxy putty, is a wonderful thing). I have great water, filtered and clean! I’m saying it again the spider bracket design is fn junk! The cheap white metal should have been stainless steel!
As for the price of $160.00 for the entire inner/outer tub assembly.
Sounds to good to be true. Could you provide a link or number to that Alberta store! I will pay the shipping. The cynic in me says, “I do not believe you!” The failure to make the spider bracket available to the public/consumer is indicative of an abject “scumbag mentality!” Period. Never mind the fact that a breach of the outer tub, permitting water to leak presents the danger of electrocution. The motor sits right at the “bottom” of the tub assembly!! I guess water travels up? This is a death waiting to happen!!!!
April 6th, 2008 at 3:24 am
The tub wont turn anyway, it went in fine but will not spin out, we went over all the wires with the meter on the spec sheet found inside the washer, and have replaced the door latch now and still no go, next is control board, then what? new motor? new pump? they work fine; its the whole washer that dosn’t… I thought I might save a bit by not replacing it just yet, but now i wonder… yes i did get a tub assembly for that price from the sears 1 800 # Problem is can i get it to spin???
April 8th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Detergent Bull-Tergent! stainless steel and aluminum will react with each other in water that contains free ions in a process known as Galvanic Corrosion (see link below):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion
The electrolyte consists of ions that come from the water supply, various salts contained in soiled landry (sweat and urine), and the detergent itself.
I have yet to enjoy the fun of disassembling our washer or taking it in rear to buy the parts but, I am convinced that one or more of the spider arms are broken. The beast bangs about on the final high-speed spin even when completely empty. Another, test is to gently hit the inner tub (near the front rim) striking upwards and listening for a rattle or sustained vibration (like a tuning fork). By rotating the (empty) tub and repeatedly striking, I was unlucky enough to find a “sweet spot” that just rattles on and on. Our’s is a Gibson GWTR645RHS0 and has served our family of three boys just fine for almost 7 years. We bought the washer and dryer pair for about $1000 and thought it to be a good investment that should last us about 15 years - Ha! After researching this topic for a day on the internet, it would apear all brands of front loading washers are designed for a shorter than expected life. I could choose to not repair the darn thing and just set the final spin control to slow. Then put the sopping wet cloths into the electric dryer. Then all that energy savings tax credit will only pay for about 2 months of higher electric bills. So much for energy conservation!
April 11th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
were having the same problem have kenmore 44832 front load already replaced little peg to shut door 50.00, baffel 100.00, now we need bearings– havent broke it down to the spyder, but the drum has alot of play and is chewing up the plastic front its still under waranty but sears will not just send us the part their repair man has to come out to look at it my husband already has the washer broke down already did his job my first washer was a hot point and it lasted 15 years. i really dont know what to do fix this or get a new one this only lasted 5 years paid 1,000. for it not happy with sears, i shouldnt have to by the whole back tub for bearings
April 11th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Try calling Frigidaire (phone number: 800-374-4432). Have the model number ready. 44832 is a Sears number. There should be another number on the machine that looks like 417.11111111 (help finding your model number: http://www.appliancepartspros.com/modelnumber_locator.aspx ) Explain the situation to them, ask for a supervisor if necessary. They may send you the part under warranty without having the tech come out.
Good luck. Let us know how it works out.
April 11th, 2008 at 11:56 pm
Today I dropped off my Frigidaire front loader to a local repair and used appliance sales guy and gave it to him. I bought a new Inglis front loader and hope it lasts me a while. I put new bearings in the Frigidaire a month ago but this week the drum completely detached itself from the spider arm and I have no intentions of taking it apart and putting any more money or time into it. I will never buy anything made by GE, Kenmore, Frigidaire or anything else made by the same people (and I found a list on the Internet that shows who makes what).
April 12th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Thank you for this great information. The video really tells all. We purchased the Sears/Frigidaire 417.42042100 in Feb 2002 and now it is very noisy. I can feel the roughness when I turn the drum by hand. Obviously a bearing problem. We ALWAYS use liquid HE detergent. Since it is clear that this issue is quite common, I do not want to waste time and money fixing it. (Louis, Thank you for convincing me.)
Does anyone have a suggestion for a replacement model? I want something made in the US but I’m open to other suggestions as long as it is not made in China.
April 13th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
Absolutely incredible. This information has just made me cancel my order to purchase a Kenmore today. I’m so greatful for stumbling across this info prior to purchase. I’ll be doing a great deal more research before purchasing a front-load…if at all now (but definately not Kenmore or Fridgidare). I’ll be sure to “tell two friends”….
April 13th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Whirlpool Duet is not a bad machine as far as front loaders go. In terms of reliability, a regular Whirlpool top load is at the top of my list. Rarely breaks, and when it does it’s usually a simple and inexpensive fix like replacing a motor coupling.
April 13th, 2008 at 11:02 pm
The machine I replaced my Fridgidaire is an Inglis, which is made by Whirlpool so I’m hoping it will prove to be reliable. Top loader is not good for us as we’re tight for room and must have a set stacked rather than side by side.
April 14th, 2008 at 3:20 am
Well,
Call me crazy but I’m replacing my Kenmore/Frigidaire with as close as I could find to the same thing–scored tub, stupid aluminum spider arm and all. After two weeks of research where I literally spent whole afternoons or mornings doing research, reading blog after blog, review after review, I’ve decided to go with the “devil I do know” rather than one I don’t.
The internet I believe has created a new phenomenon in how big white box appliances are marketed. There now does not exist a machine for sale that has a history longer than about three years–except maybe for these Kenmore/Frigidaires–so there is NO longevity record for any of them. (Or happy people don’t consult washing machine reviews and blogs–they just do their laundry like I used to and plan to do again after delivery tomorrow).
I read about Duets not loading enough water, LG’s taking an hour or more to do a load, Affinitys having filters that are on the bottom left back side of the machine which require a service rep to clean (now there’s design brilliance for you).
I’ve now been lulled into the mantra that your washing machine is now only built to last about three years (no one warrants them for longer). And I’m now able to stand with some sort of twisted pride and say that I got seven years out of mine.
Mine did loads for seven people seven days a week for seven years ever since I got it in 2001. Four of us are teens including one football running back with white (!) uniform pants, hockey gear for three, queen size comforters, towels, beach towels — the whole time spinning them nearly dry and therefore saving my dryer’s time and costs. I’ve loved this machine until the day it broke through its plastic tub with the LOUD sound of grinding rocks.
After days of research I’ve concluded none of them are “made well” anymore and I hope to get five years out of this one–the cheapest on sale one I could find. With the $110 five year service contract (which supposedly means if anything breaks during that time they’ll fix it) and the $60 delivery charge because I live in the boonies, I’m paying about $722.
The only other thing that tempted me was the lovely newish Speed Queens at the laundromat–available in an in-home version for $1295. However, one had a post-it note on it the first day I was there about spin cycles not spinning completely.
I wonder if my rather constant use of Borax and never using anything other than Tide- not the HE or HD kind may have “prolonged” its life. (See–the thought police have me accepting seven whole years as being “prolonged” instead of “pathetic”.) I know Borax makes glass-like crystals when super concentrated. Maybe it had a bit of coating effect or water softening effect? I’d love to know more about the chemistry as someone posted. Maybe it’s that because my washer is jammed in a corner between a wall and my kitchen cabinets there is not a lot of room for it to torque the spider arm too far out of whack.
I plan to stay tuned in case something emerges that is worth switching to — in about five years.
Happy laundering, C
April 14th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
ok opted to not repair my kenmore, im going top try an LG seemed like a nice machine and i think we need to readjust our expectations . the truth is they dont make it like they use to nor will they ever again. after figuring out i average 10 loads a week (family 0f 5) –2 boys! my laundry cost me .50 a load just for the machine cant really complain on that am i making a mistake about going to LG i guess ill find out im expecting another 5 years . all of this still beats the laundrymat or the washboard.
April 17th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Every one needs to know that the expensive parts are under warranty for ten years the outer drum front and rear, the pulley, the inner drum. GE sent me all four parts retail value 1200.00 on their web site, got them today. Before I under take this project I am wondering if any one know if the drum seal the giant O ring ( the one between the two halves) should be replaced or can the old one be used?
April 18th, 2008 at 1:26 am
Wally, if that’s the case than why in the world wouldn’t they have sent you the 5 cent gasket to complete it all?? I had no idea, I thought the drum was something like 5 yr warranty, it’s too late, I bought a new machine and happily dumped the GE, never to buy another again.
April 19th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
My Kenmore front load washer was nearing the end of the final spin when it sounded like someone threw gravel into the spinning tub. I thought it might be a coin or something that got in the pump, but the pump was fine. I presumed then it must have been something that shattered in the motor, but the motor turns fine and the resistances check out pretty close. Then I came across this web site and saw the U-tube video. I have not taken out the tub yet, still checking the electrical systems. My symptoms would seem to indicate the spider arm, but the tub spins smoothly with no sound of loose parts inside. However, I can’t get the motor to spin. I maybe haven’t tried enough cycles yet but I can’t get the voltage indicators from the speed control unit. However, if it was the speed control unit that failed, what would have been making all the racket? I am just curious about others’ experiences before I spend a lot of time tearing into the washer basket. I might note that we had a top load Kenmore for 23 years that required only two belt replacements, but my wife wanted a new washer, so…..
April 19th, 2008 at 8:20 pm
Correction on the above message. The motor and controls work fine and something does knock inside when it goes into a high speed spin. Looks like I may have the spider arm problem that everyone else is complaining about. If so, I may follow up on the parts mentioned above.
April 20th, 2008 at 1:23 am
Sounds like it. Keep us updated if you can.
April 20th, 2008 at 9:01 am
Sears tech was supposed to show b/w 8:00 - 12N today. Called at 12:20 and was told they had until 4pm to show up but they arrived at 2:00, claiming we weren’t even on their list. $699.51 estimate for the bearings failing—just slightly more than the stupid thing cost 3 years ago. Supposedly the “basket” is still under warranty bringing the cost down to $433.04. I only have to pay for replacement of the “sub kit” & “sub kit shell”. Incredulously as the serviceman what we could’ve done to prevent it when we only do 1-3 loads of wash/wk. (family of 2). Serviceman himself says they are always failing and the company knows but won’t build a better part!
April 20th, 2008 at 12:40 pm
The link below lists the inner basket and spider bracket. I would suggest that anyone who hears noise stop your washer. Drain washer and feel inner tub for looseness.
http://www.searspartdirect.com/partsdirect/displayPartDetailAction.action?partNumber=131618500&productGroupId=0026&supplierId=417
Instead of being sodomized by these less than honorable corporations order the part yourself and do the work yourself.
If your outer tub is scored and or pierced by baffle screw,
use epoxy putty to fill holes and fill in scored areas.
I would further suggest when you get the new spider bracket and inner tub, remove spider bracket from tub via removal of #6 10mm bolts, and paint with car primer and rustoleum paint! The spider bracket is made in “India.” The simple protection of this bracket from exposure to tub water would alleviate screwing consumers.
Also be sure to cut screws which secure baffle to inner tub’s inside, which extends out and score inner tub. The important thing is to listen for noises. Once you here whining like a jet engine, that is the first indication the spider bracket is compromised. If bearing are ok, do not replace bearings. A little silicone bead can be used to make sure outer tub is water tight. People can get out of this reprehensible cluster*uck by corporate design, for 200 bucks and some hand work. Not hard at all really. You will need a second set of hands when removing entire tub assembly out of washer machine housing. Made a mold of the bracket also!!!!! Ha ha ha……..
April 20th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Took my tub out and two arms of the spider arm are broken. The bearings feel solid, and the noise was the screws just starting to score the outer tub. I caught it early since the noise just started at the end of the last cycle and we have not run it since. The spider arms are not corroded so badly, but it looks like fatigue failure. I suspect it is the flexing allowed by the weakened spider that gives the inner tub enough play so it rubs the outer tub.
On some other forums, people note that Sears will sell the whole tub kit (inner + outer)for $160 to customers who complain. When I price the whole kit on other sites, it is around $400 and Sears parts does not even list the entire tub kit. Does anyone have more info on that. I think the guy who said he got it from Sears was Canadian.
April 20th, 2008 at 1:45 pm
Has anyone here looked at or purchased the Staber top loading, horizontal axis washer? The drum is supported on both ends so it does not have the spider that has been giving us problems. It seems expensive but built to last - and it’s made in USA. Our 7 year old Kenmore is getting louder each day so we know the end is near…
April 22nd, 2008 at 1:50 am
Just as a followup. I called Sears Parts to inquire about the whole tub replacement assembly that several (Canadians) had mentioned for about $150. They knew nothing about it. I asked about a warranty replacement since the SS tub has a lifetime warranty and you can’t buy the spider support without the tub, so it must all be one part. They forwarded me to someone in warranties, who forwarde me to someone in appliances, who forwarded me to someone in laundry service who forwarded me to someone at corporate who forwarded me to someone in service. I was really surprised that no one that works at Sears has an address or e-mail, or at least that is what a couple of them told me. Anyway, the last guy in service told me that I would have to have a service tech come to the house to determine if it was a warranty replacement. I told him I already had it all taken apart on the basement floor and asked if I could just take it to the local Sears parts and service center. He said sure, and I did that today. They claimed that they were just parts and that the service people worked out of their houses as independent contractors and that I should have a tech come to my house and get charged a service call, but he would replace the inner basket and support at no charge. Maybe it was me standing there with my documents in hand the the unit so clearly broken and he just wanted to get rid of me. But anyway, I am getting a new inner basket and support out of the deal. My bearings seem to be OK for now, so I’ll put it back together and expect that I might have to replace the bearings in a couple of years, but will know what to look for the next time, and it will go much faster than before. Good luck to others with similar problems.
April 22nd, 2008 at 4:11 am
Thanks for the update!
April 28th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Thanks to all of you for the great info. I had the ’sock in the soap drain’ problem and I get the jet whine when the machine comes off high speed spin. I’m bookmarkin’ this page for when mine pukes.
Thanks especially for the epoxy paint tip. I might just go in and paint mine pre-failure.
April 29th, 2008 at 5:55 am
As sad as this is… I have comfort today finding this web site…I had the 5 year protection agreement…after over $4000.00 of repairs for my Sears Kenmore front load HE3 model that I purchased in 6-02…And after contacting the BBB/Attorney generals office and my local media…. the Sears Technician supervisor has recommended that Sears replace my machine since they are needing to take out the guts and replace all the internal workings for the 3rd time…The bearings and shocks continue to go bad and the machine violently shakes causeing it to self destruct…Sears corperate would not honor their lemon policy… they have become crooks…they know they are selling a product designed to fail and they are getting away with it.
April 30th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
This is a massive rip off of the consumer:
Instead of being sodomized by these less than honorable corporations order the part yourself and do the work yourself.
If your outer tub is scored and or pierced by baffle screw,
use epoxy putty to fill holes and fill in scored areas.
I would further suggest when you get the new spider bracket and inner tub, remove spider bracket from tub via removal of #6 10mm bolts, and paint with car primer and rustoleum paint! The spider bracket is made in “India.” The simple protection of this bracket from exposure to tub water would alleviate screwing consumers.
Also be sure to cut screws which secure baffle to inner tub’s inside, which extends out and score inner tub. The important thing is to listen for noises. Once you here whining like a jet engine, that is the first indication the spider bracket is compromised. If bearing are ok, do not replace bearings. A little silicone bead can be used to make sure outer tub is water tight. People can get out of this reprehensible cluster*uck by corporate design, for 200 bucks and some hand work. Not hard at all really. You will need a second set of hands when removing entire tub assembly out of washer machine housing. Made a mold of the bracket also!!!!! Ha ha ha…….
Anyone interested in just a bracket?? Beat these corporate “slime bags” at their own game!!!!!! Do not allow yourself to be screwed by these scumbag corporate lying pieces of cow dung!!!!
April 30th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
speaking of cow dung……….
LIFE LIBERTY AND PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS IN THE HANDS OF CORPORATE OIL SPECULATORS………….
no pattern of “dysfunctional corporate conduct” here in America folks……….
May 2nd, 2008 at 1:32 am
I completed this repair three months ago. the cause is bad design. there is a tremendous amount of force exerted on the bearing. the front of the drum is not supported. the only support is the rear bearing. laundry and water are heavy. recall your high school physics. weight times arm equls moment. the weight on that bearing is far more than it is designed for. the machine needs an idler wheel supporting the front of the drum to take some of the weight off of the bearing and spider assy. pretty simple to figure out actuallt
May 2nd, 2008 at 3:11 am
Same here, same here. We have the dryer, which is working well - both on the raised pedestals. I will NOT buy this POS again (or spend a few hundred dollars to fix it just to have it happen again next year).
WHAT ARE YOU FOLKS BUYING AS A REPLACEMENT? Experience?
Thanks,
Matt
May 5th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
Good news and bad news folks. I have a front loader that also had a spider assembly failure (after 3 and 1/2 years of service - 6 months AFTER that 3 year service agreement expired). I did notice that they changed the design to eliminate the screws that damaged the tub.
However, as the unit was failing, the front of the drum wore a groove into the front of the tub and chewed up front of the tub.
May 5th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Well, I am having the same problem and don’t have the time to fix it myself. I am going to buy a new one. Probably the same thing again but what do I do with the old one? It seems a shame to send it to a landfill. Companies should be held accountable for the garbage they are creating by not providing parts at a reasonable cost to the consumer. Is anything being done about this?
May 6th, 2008 at 3:24 am
How come and why are these “scumbags” getting away with this abject premeditated rip off? Complete Abject scumbags…………..
May 14th, 2008 at 8:31 pm
This quote by Mike in NH is dead on the money. What everyone here seems to be experiencing is a engineered in [poor] design feature, not a bug.
“I completed this repair three months ago. The cause is bad design. There is a tremendous amount of force exerted on the bearing. The front of the drum is not supported. The only support is the rear bearing. Laundry and water are heavy. Recall your high school physics. Weight times arm equls moment. The weight on that bearing is far more than it is designed for. The machine needs an idler wheel supporting the front of the drum to take some of the weight off of the bearing and spider assembly. Pretty simple to figure out actually”
I went through basically the same sequence and litany of failure as described in the video and by pretty much everybody here; except I had already had to change out the electronic controller, motor (bearing noise in that too) and the water pump before attaining the coup de gras of the spider/drum/bearing issue, which is where I am at now. I am already approx. $400 into this pile of crap before even contemplating the expenditures discussed for the big problem now at hand.
For what it’s worth, I think the unbalance caused by spider bracket/bearing problems, making the tub loosey-goosey, caused the motor issue, but that is just an educated guess. Bottom line, if you are going to fix the thing at all, do it early when you first start hearing noise, so you don’t exacerbate the problem irretrievably. Also, without any question, cut or grind those stupid screws down while you are in there!
I just cannot see chasing any more good money after bad at this point. Appears it will be another $200+ and a whole lot of hassle. Screw it. I will have to say, I sure wish I had known about this site when I experienced my very first issue; I would have taken a few more precautionary steps (did I mention the damn screws? Also, the Rustoleum or other sealing of the junk/pot metal described above is a very bright idea) while I was already in there the first time, and I would likely be fine for years to come. But Nooooo! I have/had a Kenmore 417.42042100 manufactured January of 2002. Thanks again, this really is a wonderful site.
May 14th, 2008 at 10:22 pm
just a follow up my LG that i replaced my kenmore with is working very well i think it uses less water and gets the clothes cleaner
so far so good—- and im scraping my kenmore frontloader @225.00 a ton
May 15th, 2008 at 12:28 pm
Mr. Moore,
“I would further suggest when you get the new spider bracket and inner tub, remove spider bracket from tub via removal of #6 10mm bolts, and paint with car primer and rustoleum paint! The spider bracket is made in “India.” The simple protection of this bracket from exposure to tub water would alleviate screwing consumers.”
Thanks for the “bright idea” compliment on my previous post! It is unfortunate and I wonder why this simple “measure” to protect the consumer’s investment, was not taken by the manufacturer? Is this by design?
May 15th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Yeah, you got me there. No clue. Proper length screws might even cost less than ones that are too long (granted it would be by fractions of a penny maybe, but still). Better metal on the spider assembly, what, maybe couple of extra bucks per unit? Better bearing another few dollars? Bottom line, the thing could be infinitely better for maybe $5-$7, maybe less; that really does lead one to conclude, as so many here have, that it is designed obsolescence for profit off of the repairs.
I am now shopping for the replacement unit. Have looked at the Duet that the hosts here mentioned, but the reviews I saw were not great on reliability. The LG appears to have stabilization/vibration issues. Am kind of toying with GE Appliances 3.8 cu. ft. IEC King-Size Capacity Frontload Washer Sears item# 02606707000 Mfr. model# WBVH5200JWW or Maytag EPICz 3.7 cu. ft. IEC Super Capacity Plus Front Load Washer
Sears item# 02606272000 Mfr. model# MHWZ400TQ.
Does anybody know anything about either one of these? Would be very grateful for any information. Or on any other machine in the $600-$750 range. Thanks.
May 15th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
i got an LG i looked in the consumer reports and they do rank high i think as lng as you have a level spot the vibration isnt a problem i havent had an issue of mine its on a hand made pedisstal. im very pleased with the functions and how it has handled so far i have a family of 5 with 2 boys that get very dirty.
May 15th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
GE’s appliance division is up for sale right now (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/15/business/15ge.html?em&ex=1210996800&en=bf5484765de621b3&ei=5087%0A). I wouldn’t recommend purchasing a GE appliance until the sale has been finalized.
May 15th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
Thanks Appliance Journal. I saw that and assumed the same thing. So, that now leaves me at the Maytag or the LG which is back in the picture. When I was at the local parts warehouse one of the 2 or 3 times I went to waste time and money on the kenmore/Fridgidare, one of the guys there said LGs are great, but if they do break, you simply cannot easily get parts for them. I am now newly attuned to the fact that a front loader may well break. Any thoughts on this and the Maytag and/or LG in general?
May 15th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
I’m still considering the Staber top loading horizontal axis washer. The thing is built like a tank! and the drum is supported on both ends so you do not have to worry about a spider. The design looks simple and supposedly it is easy to repair. And it’s made in the US. I just don’t know anyone who has one. Doe anyone here have experience with it?
My Kenmore is getting louder…
May 16th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
FYI,
The “3.1 IEC” measurement on the Sears and GE and all the related machines is the exact same size as the former 2.8 cubic whatevers that they used to measure by. They just changed the measurement units.
C
May 16th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
I am a lawyer. Not saying I would personally handle it, might or might not, but I know a lot of trial attorneys. How many of you here would be interested in joining an action against Fidgidare/Sears? I am interested in at least gauging interest. Thanks
May 17th, 2008 at 10:03 pm
I would be interested in joining a class action against Sears .My washer failed in 4.5 yrs. Bearings seised
May 18th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
My Kenmore is failing after 6 years of daily use. I, too, am angry with the poor design and believe they could easily have made it better. However, I am NOT interested in a class action suit.
What is our goal here? To be compensated for our dissatisfaction? To make a better product? If a suit is successful, the individual victims typically receive a minuscule percentage of the award. The biggest individual winners by far are the attorneys. This does not help the “wronged” purchaser, nor does it result in a better product. It only draws money from the system leaving fewer dollars for engineering an improved design.
I don’t work for Kenmore or Sears nor does anyone in my family. I’m just a consumer. I vote with my purchasing dollars not with the legal system.
May 18th, 2008 at 7:21 pm
A strikingly uninformed and myopic view of a process you clearly know nothing about; you are buying off on canned talking points and spin spoon fed to you by corporate entities and the greedy people that serve them. The same people, I might add, that designed and sold you the very thing you complain of. But you want to hold them accountable for that by doing - wait for it - nothing. That ought to really show em! Or not. Thanks for the gratuitous lawyer bashing though.
May 18th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Sorry! I did not mean that comment to be seen as “gratuitous lawyer bashing”. Nor am I defending the people that sold me “the very thing I complain of”. You asked if people would be interested in joining a class action suit and I answered.
I believe that this site and that informative, technical video posted back in Sept 2007 are powerful tools. I have told at least three people about this site and intentionally used a few key words in my postings here so anyone else searching the internet for comments on the Kenmore will see it and note the problems.
I won’t hold my breath waiting for a check from Kenmore/Sears to compensate me for all my trouble. And likewise they should not be waiting for me (and everyone I’ve told, and everyone who has found this link) to send them a check for a future purchase.
On the bright side, (and there is always a bright side) we have all learned a lot more than we ever knew about the design of a washing machine.
Mine is still working, by the way. We estimate it has done more than 2000 loads. Not bad for a dumb design but I still will never buy a Kenmore again.
(If you would like to discuss this further we should probably do it offline. This thread’s title is: “Why Kenmore Front Load Washers Fail” and I believe at this point we are drifting off topic.)
May 18th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
Agreed. And I am not necessarily personally interested in doing said litigation, if there ever was to be any. I was really more interested in seeing how many would say they were at least interested, and if it was a lot, was then thinking of forwarding this thread to Sears General Counsel and Legal Dept. I am convinced that they have intentionally made their “loss leader” (although that is not really accurate here, I doubt they are taking any loss) low priced, but very shiny looking, washer semi-defective in order to churn repair and parts income. And clearly a winning strategy for them so far; for us, not so much.
May 19th, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Interested………….
Sodomy by design becomes more evident with exposure! The affidavit of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Naujocks, was rather enlightening during the Nuremberg Trials. I wonder if a few internal documents from Sears and or Frigidaire, now Electrolux of Sweden, might reveal the scope of this “rip off.” Like the Tobacco industry corporations lie all the time to protect scumbag policies/stealing, under the color of law, while avoiding accountability. Maybe a motion for summary judgment by plaintiffs would have to be granted, given the facts of this case as presented by this website’s posters! In fact anybody with 1/3 of a brain utilizing 1/10 of its undeveloped reasoning capabilities can see the reality and the breath and scope of the “scam” taking place here…….
“..corporate scum in corporate crime have raped and continue to rape the governed many a time.”
As I have stated before: Imagine a mother with child, four hellions loose while piles of dirty cloths are mounting to the height of Mt Everest? This is to easy the con man said!
May 19th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
I recieved a call from Sears yesterday wanting to extend my warrenty another year….I told them that sears was already doing that for free…the sales person asked why? I told them that Even though my machine met their criteria for replacement, they refused…She was shocked as she sells these to people. I have had 3 senior technicians out to my home to repair my machine since dec.07 2 of which said my machine was junk and it needed to be replaced….last week they sent 3 senior techs to determine if they could repair my machine….they replaced a part and left….It did not fix the problem….now the lights are flickering on the console. They have spent over $4,000 to repair my machine and keep sending out technicians when the machine wont work right and nothing they do fixes it. Sear corperate are criminals. They will not honor their repair/ replacement policy and I was told by the Technician that the machine was designed to fail..
I am currantly working with an attorney to send them a letter but if anyone wanted to file a class action law suite. I am all for it … I currently have an open complaint with the Attorney generals office. They need each of you to file your complaint….They cannot pursue Sears unless they get enough complaints. PLease contact the Attoney Generals office. Jennifer Redding…Mediator at the consumer protection division for the state of Kentucky. 502-696-5389… I don’t know if they cross state lines, but maybe she can advise on this. please contact her and file a complaint.
thanks,
tenessa
May 19th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Well I am stuck…I need a front end load machine because I have to stack. I have a gas dryer that is working great BUT I had a Frigidaire Gallery Front end load that I bought in 1999 and it died 4 years later (bearing) so then I bought a Kenmore Frontend Load and it has just died (bearing) The repairs are so expensive that it is cheaper to buy a new one. Three washers in 81/2 years give me a break!!!!!Does anyone have any suggestions on what brand this time?
Thanks,
Alison
May 19th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Alison, i just replaced my kenmore with an LG looked at consumer reports before i bought it. ive only had it since the 26 of april but im very pleased with it. were a family of 5 so we do alot of laundry. it is the model just under the steam one
good luck
May 19th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
I was also going to suggest the LG…I am hearing great things about it. But only time will tell. After so many years of building front loaders they still cannot get them to last…I believe the intent is for them not to last….
May 19th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
I was in the same position, I needed a front loader and it had to be compact as I have a dryer over it and the ceiling is only about 6-1/2′ high. I bought an Inglis, time will tell, in the mean time I’m enjoying the quietness of it all.
May 21st, 2008 at 5:14 pm
I just pull the innner steel drum and the spider was fracutred on all three spokes. I do not understand the engineering involved, if this is our best efforts at designing a washing machine I would hate to be the explorers that are looking forward to a trip to Mars. I am going down to the sears parts center to see if I can get just the spider, the drum is stainless steel and will never have the problems the aluminum spider had. I caught the repair before it ruined the outer plastic drum.
May 21st, 2008 at 5:19 pm
bulllya, The whole situation is bullS**t, America is better than this front load washer planned failure, where is the recall notice on this part? Love it…………..
May 21st, 2008 at 7:54 pm
I just ordered the repair drum and spider assembly, it was 227.00 woth shipping and the outer tub shell gasket. The part will ship directly to my home. There is no reason the spider could not ship on its own, it is a six bolt job to swap out the spider, can’t the sears/frigidaire/kemore make their money just selling the parts individually. For the love of whomever don’t they make enough money selling these washing machines at eight hundred bucks each? What the who!
May 21st, 2008 at 7:55 pm
woth = with (SP err)
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:49 pm
So today I found out that the Kenmore that broke was made by Frigidaire. I would have never bought another Frigidaire after the first one broke. Unbelievable!!!! I would be in if anyone starts a class action suit.
May 22nd, 2008 at 3:22 pm
sounds like Stores like sears need to be required to list who manufactures their kenmore product…my washer said Kenmore but it was made by whirlpool….I swore I would never by whirlpool again…but it was made by them… frankly No manufacturer in this country cares about producing a quality product anymore…They are too hungry to sell a product that looks good and take all their profits out of the quality. i just bought a toyota that I was sure that was made in Japan just to make sure I was buying a car that would be reliable. Sad I know….But people here in america are only interested in a paycheck from the corperate level to the person on the assembly line.. I was told by my engineer brother that it is easily calculated how long parts will last and what they were designed for….these machines are designed to fail so that we have to pay to fix them….i wish more people in our society would fight back!
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:51 pm
Quote “Proper length screws might even cost less than ones that are too long (granted it would be by fractions of a penny maybe, but still). Better metal on the spider assembly, what, maybe couple of extra bucks per unit? Better bearing another few dollars? Bottom line, the thing could be infinitely better for maybe $5-$7, maybe less; that really does lead one to conclude, as so many here have, that it is designed obsolescence for profit off of the repairs.”
If the makers sell 100,000 units, and it cost $7 per unit more to make them stronger and last longer, then they’d be out $700,000 and wouldn’t make any money on the repairs…
A no brainer for the corporate decision makers. The manufacturer hires scores of bean counters to weigh the cost of any lawsuits against the profits made by PLANNING IN OBSOLESENCE and apparantly the lawsuits cost less than good design.
As for the longer screws, it prolly costs less than $.01 to put in the longer screws, that will JUSTIFY charging you for the replacement drum/spider assy., instead of just a broken spider…
That’s my $.02
May 24th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
I love these recent comments…..
“If the makers sell 100,000 units, and it cost $7 per unit more to make them stronger and last longer, then they’d be out $700,000 and wouldn’t make any money on the repairs…” “Planned Obsolescence”
Corporate cohorts in “calculating deceptive crime” gaming the system many a time. The consumer pays and pays some more even when the “truth” is clear to all. I recall the American colonial trader’s disgust for England’s products, for which they traded. Over priced overtaxed and of shoddy construction, the cost to the American colonist and infringements on liberty impose by this mercantile-imperialistic economic relationship is alive and well today in America. The realities experienced by the posters here seem pretty similar….
May 24th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
I would like to go one on one in a cage match with the CEO of Kenmore brands. I would like to take his 30 million dollar annual salary and his stock options and redistribute them to any owner of Kenmore front load washers that were built under his inept leadership. If he survived the cage match then he could work on anyones washing machines that needed this spider and bearing replacements for the rest of his life. This would be the punishment corporate America would understand rather than SEC fines that are meaning less.
May 27th, 2008 at 2:41 pm
I am definately interested persuing this issue legally of the Kenmore front endloader problems of only working for 3-4 years. I bought mine in Oct 2005. On friday I have a Sears tech coming to figure out what the problem is..Now reading this I’m pretty sure I will be told it’s the bearings & more than likely the spider arm(s). I’m going to print this blog out and hand it to the tech and tell him that I want it attached to my invoice. I will follow up with a phone call to make sure sears has it.
When I called I told Sears that I have heard from friends & coworkers that they had problems in only a couple or so years with their machines. So I said to Sears has there been a recall on these machines (or on parts)??? totally avoided my question. So I will make myself heard one way or another. They will be inindated with letters, calls and copies of blogs that I can find on the web.
May 28th, 2008 at 4:41 am
Jacqueline - Excellent! Let em have it. For all those here, you may appreciate this. We went to Sears and bought a new Whirlpool Duet. Probably would have gone somewhere different, but they had the best price. At any rate, I was jabbering at the salesman about our previous experience with the Kenmore/Fridgidare. He said he had heard a few comments over the last couple of years, but had no idea how bad it was. Then he said the really interesting part. He pointed to the section of his display with all the new shiny Fridgidare front loaders and says “I haven’t sold one of those all year, maybe this is why”. Indeed.
May 29th, 2008 at 8:03 am
So I just took apart our frigidaire front load washer and found the broken spider arm. Inside bearing bad also. Rediclous price for replacement parts. I would join a class action against the manufacturer as production of this design should be stopped now.
May 30th, 2008 at 4:21 am
Well the drum and spider assy came in, I installed it and it runs excellent again, what sucks is that I know that it is a five year or so fix and it will have to be done again, this really sucks.
I had to reinstall the door gasket and had a hell of a time doing it, the spring that holds the gasket to the outer tub shell is a brutal spring to put in place through the door opening. I started the spring on the bottom of the tub and secured it there with a padded furniture clamp t o keep the spring from working its way back out as I put it in. This made the task a cinch. If anyone runs into this situation or find they just need to replace the door gasket then let me know and I’ll post a sketch of what I found the easiest.
May 31st, 2008 at 11:39 am
“Well the drum and spider assy came in, I installed it and it runs excellent again, what sucks is that I know that it is a five year or so fix and it will have to be done again, this really sucks.”
Steve,
Did you take any preventative measures I suggested in a previous post. It would extend the life of the “designed” to fail substandard manufactured in India, spider bracket? This item should be sold as a separate part. On the positive side of things, this scam is not as bad as….”The Iraq Oil Plot,” and $5.00 stored energy, in the form of gas/diesel! Go figure……..
May 31st, 2008 at 2:21 pm
So after reading all these posts, I called the store we bought our Frigidare from told them that I was under the impression there was a 25 year warrenty on the inner drum. The repair guy said he would get me the drum (no charge except a shipping charge $10 or so)
I called the bearing store they had the bearings and the seal total around $40. (Just a little tap whith a hammer and punch old bearings came right out.)
Got everthing here today, ….all’s I’s need’s to’s do’s now’s…. is get it all back together….. [:>)
By the way our washer was purchased in July of 1998 so we almost got 10 years. It has been pretty noisey for the last year though.
KWD
June 2nd, 2008 at 7:30 am
It’s after mid night, I spent the last tree hours putting together the washer. The initial run, no leaks no vibration so looks like a fix. I did primer the spider and paint in with rustoloeum. so hopefully it will lenghten it’s life. Thanks everone who posted here it made all the difference. Thank-you
June 11th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Next month makes 2 yrs since I bought a laundry center from Sears. 3 weeks ago the dryer lost 3 screw out of the drum. Repairs cost $133. Less than 2 weeks later the washer made a loud scretching sound and dumped the water in the floor DAMAGING FLOOR. I am informed this day that their repair people DOES NOT move the washer to repair it, that someone else will have to move it out from the wall and since I am 76 and have a husband very ill WE are unable to move it. Looks like I need to hire another person (if I can find one) to move it out and back. SO IN THE FUTURE I AM SURE TO NEVER BUY ANY THING THAT MAY NEED REPAIRS. I WAS TOLD THAT THERE WAS A FEE ALSO PLUS PARTS & LABOR. I WILL SPREAD THE WORD ON THIS.
June 12th, 2008 at 2:28 am
I did not find anyone talking about the Whirpool design. Mine is made by Whirlpool. After finding the washer making alot of noise and the front tub piece being ground away, I ordered (not from Sears) a replacement front tub with seal. Upon further inspection, I found the spider assembly bad on my drum. According to the Sears manual, the stainless steel drum is warranted for life. Is this so or am I going to find out from the repairman that because of the spider assembly failure, this part will not be covered? According to Sears’ website, the drum for this Whirpool make is $541 USD.
June 13th, 2008 at 12:31 am
6/12. Today the tech came out to look at my Kenmore laundry center as it made a loud noise and then dumped the water out ruining my new laminate floor. Of course this is not Sears responsibility. Cost he quoted $608.00. Had over $130. repairs done to dryer (stacked) 2 weeks ago. Will be 2yrs old next month. I feel like I have been skinned and bad. I will never buy another appliance from Sears and will spread the word to any one who will listen. I paid $953. for the set last July .He told me it was not for heavy duty jobs (just for apartments and 2 or 3 loads a week. I was not informed of this when I bought it. There are 3 in my family.
June 16th, 2008 at 4:03 am
Have a Frigidaire that has been relatively problem free for almost 11 years. Wow, after reading this board I am one lucky guy I suppose but now am experiencing very loud spins. I’m crossing my fingers that it’s just a bearing problem and that I can replace just the bearing. I’m not going to spend money to fix the broken spider arm if that’s what the problem is. Not worth the time or money. I wanted to remind you all who are looking for replacement models to not overlook European and Japanese brands. Specifically I would look at Tromm (I think it’s Swedish? or Belgian?) Europeans have been making front load washers long before they became in vogue here and are likely making them better. I don’t remember what brand I had when I lived in Switzerland but it was rock solid.
June 19th, 2008 at 4:12 am
My owners manual states that their is a “limited lifetime warranty on stainless steel wash basket.” Does anyone know if this includes the spider bracket assembly? Mine just went bad - it is a 2004 Kenmore model number 417.44102300. Is there a way to get the part under warranty or am I going to have to feed Sears the $50.00 for a service visit just to confirm what I already know to get the warranty part? Thanks
June 19th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Hey Mike,
Had you taken the time to read the numerous posts on this site you would know the answer! Welcome to the American way; sodomy corporate style! Hope you have not paid 50.00 clams for nuting………
June 20th, 2008 at 1:10 am
Mike,
The repairman from Sears came Monday. He was able to verify in his parts diagram that on the Whirlpool made Kenmore front loader, you can not buy the spider bracket separate of the drum. He ordered me a replacement drum under warranty (part only). Still do not have the part as he stated it would take 5-7 days. I did have to pay a service call fee, but I declined having them install the part ($300 US).
June 20th, 2008 at 3:00 am
Thanks Troy - thats exactly the info I was looking for - I have my service call tomorrow - hopefully with the same results - I’ll post my success or failure after the visit.
June 21st, 2008 at 1:42 am
Thanks for the video and the posts - they definitely saved me money and time in getting a repairman to give me the bad news. We have the same problem with model 417 front loader - bad bearing and spider support. I’m not wasting money on a temporary fix. Ours lasted 3 years. (We always used the liquid HE detergent, too.)
June 22nd, 2008 at 3:35 am
I guess I’m the latest victim of the Kenmore, Frigidaire junk washer model 417. Purchased Oct 1st 2004 with the matching drier, 3 years 9 mos. Dryer seems okay but the washer is exactly the same as in the video, nice job by the way. The spider assembly is broke on two of the arms. The screws gouged the outer drum severely and the bottom bushing doesn’t look to good. The bearings seem to be okay.
I’m a retired sheetmetal mechanic and I can tell you, you don’t mix, stainless steel with aluminum in water especially with detergent and bleach. If you can visualize the older top loader washers they mostly had porcelain coated steal drums and parts which would not rust unless chipped or cracked. Unprotected aluminum is highly corrosive near water. It is almost as bad as bare steel. They should never have used aluminum for that part, unless they were planning for the failure.
I definitely feel that there should be a recall for these parts, spider arm assembly with basket, scored drum and the bearings. I also feel that if Sears doesn’t honor their product then we should pursue a class action suit. I plan on taking pictures of everything, call the attorney general, call Sears and complain some more and if anyone does get a suit give me a shout. I’ll help. I can’t find anything on my paperwork about the stainless drum have an extended warrentee.
June 22nd, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Has anyone had a problem separating the inner (metal) tub from the outer plastic tub? I was unable to get the shaft out of the rear bearing. I suppose rust fused it together.
I ordered the parts from appliance parts pros and it came in 2 days ($100 cheaper than repairclinic).
I’d really like to separate them sometime for curiosity’s sake. I doubt any of the spider arms were cracked because there is no evidence of gouging in the outer shell by the screws or anything else. I just think the bearing seal failed and allowed water into the bearing and ruined it (and fused the shaft to the bearing evidently).
By the way, those screws on the fins are not even necessary. The fins have tabs that slide in and forward. They are locked into place by bending a tab in the drum. I was a little worried about how they’d hold but after 20 loads of laundry I’m convinced they’re unnecessary.
I have no idea why my spider arms would be fine for 10.5 years and others would have such a problem breaking. I’ve never used the HE detergent (what a ripoff). We’ve always just used regular powdered Tide. We have always had a water softener… maybe soft water makes a difference with the corrosion? I also noticed on the replacement spider/drum that it’s aluminum and Fe (Iron). I don’t know if that makes it even worse or maybe they’ve redesigned it a bit by using an iron and aluminum mix?
Does anyone know if the next generation Frigidaires/Kenmores have similar problems? They are the ones with the bigger tub (3.5cuft) and a bigger door. I haven’t been able to find anything about similar problems with them as with the 3.1s. If that’s the case and there are fewer problems I suppose we can give Frigidaire a little credit for perfecting the design. (Would be fun to open up one of those next gen 3.5s and see what the setup on it is). And I guess there’s even a generation beyond that with the “Affinity” series.
Anyway, a $360 repair… about half the price of a new washer. And if I get ten more years outta that… then I think it’ll be worth it. The drain pump is now louder than the spin. (I even went to check a few times cause I thought the load was unbalanced… unable to hear the spin sound. But there it was… spinning away). My next project will be installing some rubberized carpet padding as insulation in the cabinet. Luckily that can be done by just removing the top, the back and the front panel. I already have the feet on rubber “isolators” which really help the washer stay in place on the tile floor and really dampen the shaking during spins.
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:37 am
Sigh. Yanked mine apart today, after finding increased noise and oil or grease ruining a whole bunch of clothes. I’m apparently lucky, since the spider seems to be in great shape. It’s a 7/02 model (417.42142100), so after six years, no real sign of corrosion. I’m taking various bits of advice here and upgrading the seal and bearings, plus I’ll paint the spider after cleaning. I’m not paying Sears a dime, if I can help it. Which brings me to my next question - should I replace the seal between the two halves of the tub, or can I reuse what’s there (augment with silicon?)
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:51 am
I’d recommend replacing the seal… they’re not that expensive. I ordered replacement seals and bearings from repairclinic.com but they DO NOT FIT. I didn’t realize but it says plainly they’re only for washers made prior to 1992 (did Frigidaire even MAKE frontloaders before 1992?) Why not get a new seal AND use silicon as well? I would be very reluctant to paint the spider. You realize it gets wet every load many times… bleach… detergent… and I don’t imagine rustoleum is going to stand up to that… I imagine it will start flaking off and get into your clothes. Unless you can take it to a professional appliance painting or auto body shop, I would shy away from that. I wonder if it could be coated in plastic or porcelain somehow?
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:15 am
Jim -
Thanks much. Will order the new seal, < $20, agree on the silicon. Last thing I want is for this thing to leak after I’m all done!
Probably right on the paint. I’m trying to research an epoxy coating that would bond to the cast aluminum. Powder coating would be ideal, but I’m not sure I know anyone around who even does that, or if would be cost-effective.
June 23rd, 2008 at 11:00 pm
Had the same problem with my GE front loader washer. Wpxh21a0ww I replaced the tub and spider assembly, now the bearings are going. Didn’t know that they both needed to be replaced until now. It does take quite awhile to do the repair. I have been unable to find the whole assembly, inner and outer tub with bearings, anyone have any insight..I read here about sears stocking one, but I called them and they have no record of the part number listed, (26970134453200)it has too many numbers. My other GE washer lasted over 25 years with only 2 repairs until the tub rutsed out. What ever happened to quality with GE? Any help would be appreciated.
June 25th, 2008 at 1:01 am
I inquired through the Sears Canada parts website the part # mentioned in one of the posts above for the entire tub assembly…here is the response:
Website for the inquiry: http://www5.sears.ca/hips.nsf/eparts
******************************************************************
ITEM : 26 970134453200
DESCRIPTION : TUB KIT
SELL PRICE : 152.99 EXP. DATE : 06/27/08
The trip charge is roughly around 80.00$ + part + labour .. we do not have a houtly rate… Charges are confirmed by our technicians
If you wish to order by internet, you must resubmit your Part Inquiry/Request with the information in all the fields stating part # above in appropriate field. Do not forget to give your complete address with #, street name, city, phone #. Also in Additional Comments you must indicate your credit card # with exp. date. Delivery charges of $ 6.00 and Taxes are applicable on all orders..
To order you may also call 1-800-4-MY-HOME
Thank you & Have a nice day !
*****************************************************************
So apparently it does exist…I have ordered mine tonight and will update with a posting when I receive it. Obviously I plan to install it myself thanks to all of the great information available through the people that have posted here…fingers are crossed.
June 25th, 2008 at 2:45 am
Update: I complained to the sears store where I bought my washer from and told them about the implied warranty law and they decided to send out a repair man today at no cost to me. I had the Washer all apart on my basement floor. The service guy said he would order me a new spider assembly with basket and new gasket. Should have it by this Friday. He said it had a lifetime warranty on the spider assembly and basket. Bearing did not. Hopefully it will last another 3 to 4 years and then I’ll get an LG. As the repair guy said he hasn’t seen any of those in for repair yet, and he’d been working for Sears for 35 years.
June 25th, 2008 at 3:20 am
Neal: are you in Canada or US? Which store did you buy from?
I have only diagnosed that it is my spider arm assembly that has broken and haven’t dismantled it yet - waiting for the new one before I do that. After I replace it, and if it is the spider arm, I will be following up directly with Sears Canada to reimburse for the replacement, plus something for the hassle. My manual indicates a 25 year warranty on the stainless steel drum…and only two year warranty coverage on the labour. Not sure if the Presidents Line is still around, but must be some customer service contact to escalate to…
June 26th, 2008 at 5:17 am
Chris, I’m in US, Maine, Brunswick was the store. The repair guy told me he has replaced many of these. There should be a recall on them from the manufacturer, but there’s not enough people out there yet to make a stink about it. The bad thing about it is that the new one they are sending has the same aluminum spider assembly which will corrode and break again in another 3 to 4 years.
June 26th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Neil,
“There should be a recall on them from the manufacturer, but there’s not enough people out there yet to make a stink about it.”
Sears has received thousands of complaints on this scam. They do not care! It is the cost of doing business. It is ironic that Maytag has voluntarily recalled it’s front load washers due to the potential of fire from a compromised outer tub that leaks. The breach of the watertight outer plastic shell allows water to inundate the electrical components below the inner/outer tub assembly. The breach of the outer tub is the result of inner tub baffle screws scoring and shredding the inside of the plastic tub. This is all caused by the defective spider bracket! This is as much a scam as the Iraq Oil Plot folks……. sodomy of America by corporate scum/crooks!!!!
June 26th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
My front loader “Kenmore” (Actually Frigidaire) washing machine started to the thumping routine during the last few days. After spending some time this afternoon researching it, I find out that thanks to the fellow on Youtube that it is a MATERIALS engineering defect.
Ron’s comments are only apologistic “Bu11sh1t” from someone who benefits from this defect. Using HE detergent is only “recommended” in my users manual. If the chance of damage was so great, it should have been stipulated as a necessity. Frankly, I think it’s the chlorine bleach that accelerated the corrosion on the spider arm.
Now to the Engineers: The engineers who designed this should have known better and if they did and were over-ruled, …. well, we know why. Frankly this type of defect warrants a class action lawsuit. As an engineer in the appliance industry, I know that cost issues are important, but obviously it is in the corporate best interest to keep it going - the machines generally make it out of warranty. Since I paid over $1000 for my machine, I figured it would have lasted longer - 10-15 years would have been acceptable. Since mine is only 5 1/2 years, and it seems that 5 years is fairly typical, I’d say that this life expectancy is pathetic.
July 1st, 2008 at 6:51 am
Six years of ownership must be the lucky number! It wasn’t bad enough that the spin-tub broke apart but it just so happen to do so during the spin cycle and it sent my washer through my wall! WOW! Do I feel lucky? More like an idiot! I had asked the repair man while he was out the last time we had had a problem with the machine why it was making that awful knock noise every time the spin cycle ran. He told me he didn’t know but be sure to call back if there were any other problems. Well, on the average, we had the repair man out twice a year and yes, like fools, we extended that warranty. However, so many of the repairs that needed to be done, for one reason to the other, parts or labor just never seemed to be part of that deal. So, we didn’t renew that less than three months ago and now, I will be shopping for a new washer and repairing a huge whole in my laundry room wall. The sales man bragged about all the money we would be saving with this machine! I wish there was some way to hold Sears responsible for all the trouble this machine has been as well as all of the extra money we have had to spend just to do what they claimed this machine could and would do for 20 years or more!
July 1st, 2008 at 11:24 am
“The sales man bragged about all the money we would be saving with this machine!” This is a con game. Sears and Frigidaire are “corporate scum” ripping people off left and right. Your situation is made worse by the bold faced omission of fact the repair tech was well aware of. He was planning on getting a second bite from your apple.
This is garbage, trash, rape, and exploitation of the consumer on a massive scale.
July 1st, 2008 at 2:18 pm
New Update: Yesterday I called Sears parts or customer service because I hadn’t received the basket and gasket which the service man ordered for me on Tuesday. He told me I would receive them by last Thursday or Friday at the latest. I didn’t receive them and called yesterday and played phone tag for about an hour and found out the order was pending. I don’t understand pending anyways they haven’t sent them yet and the gasket was on back ordered from the manufacturer. (Figidaire, Electolux I guess) The phone person said it could be! a week to 10 days maybe more as they don’t no how long the back order will be. He did say that the national parts resource center will give me a call within 24 hours to let me know how long it will be. Yeh Right. I feel like taking all their crap parts, washer and dumping in right in the main entrance to the Sears store where I bought the dam thing.
July 1st, 2008 at 4:58 pm
sorry nil…. that truly sucks. It seems to me that more of you had have problems with Sears than with Frigidaire. (maybe sears customer service just makes people more pissed off I dunno). I’m unwilling to call this machine a lemon… that’s another reason why it’d be fun to open up a next gen frigidaire (3.5) and see any design modifications. As much as I feel for you James Joyce, I’m not sure what your rantings about a horrifying crime of sodomy has to do with a washer. It seems way over the top, even for hyperbole… and is repeated over and over and over again and I’m not sure that it ads anything to the discussion. Everyone should remove their fins screws toute de suite (immediately) to prevent them from gouging the outer tub… since they aren’t even needed. I’ve been pleased with the performance of my Frigidaire 3.1 since the replacement… I even shoved a bit of foam insulation around the drain pump and it’s nearly a silent machine.
July 2nd, 2008 at 2:43 am
I own a 3 year old Kenmore HE2 Model #110.4646. Began to not drain and made a great amount of noise during rinse/drain/spin cycle. Panel began flashing. Long story short, after spending the better part of a day reading all of the informative posts, I decided to take the front lower panel off to get a better look. Wasn’t easy. Right in front of me was a drain filter by the pump. Unscrewed it and tons of coins,bobby pins, hair, etc. were PACKED in the filter. Cleaned it out, screwed it back in and the machine is quiet and draining very well. Hopefully I didn’t ruin the water pump. I don’t understand why this filter is not more accessible or cleaning recommended by SEARS. Hope this help someone out there! Just so you know, I did all of this to avoid call Sears because of past horrible experiences. Will not shop there again!
July 2nd, 2008 at 1:33 pm
I have a GSTF1670ASO Fridgidaire model. We have had the unit for only a few years and the spider arm 3 spokes broke cleanly and in approx the same spot on each. Our did not look half as damaged/corroded as the unit in the video. Ours too has the protruding screws which dmamaged the plastic tub. My question is have you all filed complaints with the BBB and FTC? If you have not please do so. Has anyone received any response or compensation for the obviously defect equipment, damage etc. Sounds like a fairly common problem. Class action?
July 3rd, 2008 at 3:32 am
Take those damn screws out now anyone of you who hasn’t yet!
July 3rd, 2008 at 3:33 am
but remember the screws only become a problem in the spider arms break
July 3rd, 2008 at 9:57 am
Further to my earlier post I took my unit apart and found, ‘lo and behold’ a broken spoke. It broke at the beginning of the embossment which is no surprise since this is the maximum stress point, and a stress concentration point due to the corners in the embossment. In addition, the screws had scratched the inside of the outer tub, but not as badly as in the video. The real damage to the outer tub occurred on the front half of the outer tub where the front edge of the stainless steel drum rubbed THROUGH the front wall. I called sears and ordered the drum replacement kit - before I noticed the front wall damage. When I called to find out what was in the replacement kit, the sales person didn’t know and couldn’t find out because it wasn’t listed on the computer. YIKES! Isn’t this the information age? Anyway, I sit here waiting for the replacement kit, knowing that my job is not done yet. The washer is in pieces in my basement and we are now using disposable diapers ….
July 3rd, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Let’s all stop thinkin of these machines as “sodomy.” The’ve actually got some good engineering (I’m an auto engineer and can send my hands off to them) Dunno why mine did’t break and take out ur screws now to prevent more. Since the replacement I’ve been prob free/ 10 more years I hope
July 4th, 2008 at 12:11 am
Received the Tub Kit from Sears on Wednesday afternoon…grand total with taxes and shipping was $179.66…full outer tub, stainless tub, fly wheel.
Took about 5 hours to reinstall - 2 hours to remove the original, 3 hours to install the new one - took a bit of fiddling to find the best way to do it and took my time to ensure that I didn’t break any of the parts (alot of plastic) or cut anything (hoses, boot).
A couple of spots were definitely two person situations - ie. removing the shock absorber pins.
On reinstalling the boot, much easier to remove it from the door and install the tub side before attaching the weights and setting the tub back in place.
All told, if you have any mechanical inclination, you can do this job yourself…just take your time.
Now let the fight begin with Snears…
July 4th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
“I’m unwilling to call this machine a lemon… that’s another reason why it’d be fun to open up a next gen frigidaire (3.5) and see any design modifications. As much as I feel for you James Joyce, I’m not sure what your rantings about a horrifying crime of sodomy has to do with a washer?”
I quoted a line in your post with correction; proper punctuation, a question mark. (?) There have been no modifications on the next gen 3.5. Same defective design. Thanks, your sympathy not required!! I do not think the machine is a lemon either. It was designed with intended failure of major components, for repair, for profit! Not that anything is wrong with profit! Otherwise it is a “good” machine
Concerning your politically correct characterization of my comments as a “rant?” [edited by admin] These corporations have sold thousands of these products and made considerable “profit,” in the process. Today is the 4th of July!!! You just don’t get it do you? Corporate cohorts in colonial times…. raped the colonist many a time. I guess you accept that we have become, that which we severed our ties from?
The issues on this site are indicative and just small examples of what America’s founders dealt with many moons ago!!! Sodomy by design!!
July 4th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Chris from Ajax - thanks for the information on the tub kit. I was afraid it was just the back half. Still waiting for it to arrive from Sears. My cost was 179.66 incl. taxes and shipping. I can’t wait to get it back in place - the cost of disposable diapers is killing me!
July 4th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Found a lot of great information on this website, thank you. Found the whole tub kit from Sears in Canada is $152.99, in the USA it’s $411.99 for the same kit, same part number. Is there anyway around this? Talked tp Sears Canada. they said they would not ship to the US, I have to order through Sears USA. I can get the frigidaire model machine (they make it for Sears) new for $499.00. I would rather save the landfill and order the kit from Canada, any suggestions?
July 4th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Steve…how close to the border are you? Sears Canada sent my part to a local catalogue pick-up location, not to my home…you could have it ordered to a pick-up location and scoot over and pick it up for the price of the gas (plus whatever hassle US immigration gives you - make sure you have a passport).
One other comment on re-installing the boot…use a little bit of dish soap inside the groove to help it slide over the rim.
July 5th, 2008 at 2:58 am
Received the entire tub assembly this morning. Fantastic. I was afraid after seeing the US prices for this unit, that I would only be getting the back half of the outer shell! LoL!
Monday I’ll be putting this baby back together. I may be checking back for help on the re-assembly.
John
July 6th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
I think Ken needs his medication now…
James Joyce, I understand your grief, but lets keep it civil. There may be kids reading.
Herb Says:
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:15 am
Jim -
“Powder coating would be ideal, but I’m not sure I know anyone around who even does that, or if would be cost-effective.”
You can get a home powdercoater from some of these. Just supply that old Kenmore oven };^)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=home+powdercoat
July 7th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
WTF? Looks like spam to me…
July 8th, 2008 at 8:40 am
Ken’s comment has been deleted. Please keep the comments rated PG. Thank you.
July 8th, 2008 at 11:26 am
Civility is much overrated… especially when you are the the one being screwed. Second any “kid” who might read these posts would come away with a clearer understanding of the realities, than most allegedly… mature adults. If one is concerned for the well being of children, recall these washers!!!
No more pain nor grief here! I got out of this “fiasco” for less than 200 hundred bucks while thousands of customers have been, in some cases ripped off for several hundred dollars… These people are the victims, not me! I’m the dumbbie?????
Seems other corporations are more responsible than some. Just wondering if the breach of the water tight outer tub due to failed spider bracket/shaft and/or bearings poses the same or similar threat to life and property which caused Maytag/Samsung to recall their front load washer(s).
“Water leakage onto the electrical connections to the washing machine’s thermal sensor could cause an electrical short and ignite a circuit board, posing a fire hazard to consumers.”
Motor sits at bottom of tub, circuit board sits below outer tub, water pump sits below tub assembly? Do Frigidaire models have a similar thermal sensor???
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/maytag_wash.html
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07135.html
NEWS from CPSC
U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission
Office of Information and Public Affairs Washington, DC 20207
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
March 21, 2007
Release #07-135
Maytag Recall Hotline: (800) 868-5109
Samsung Recall Hotline: (800) 515-7902
CPSC Recall Hotline: (800) 638-2772
CPSC Media Contact: (301) 504-7908
Maytag® and Samsung™ Brand Front Loading Washing Machines Recalled Due to Fire Hazard
WASHINGTON, D.C. - The U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission, in cooperation with the firms named below, today announced a voluntary recall of the following consumer products. Consumers should stop using recalled products immediately unless otherwise instructed.
Name of product: Maytag and Samsung Brand Front Loading Washing Machines
Units: About 250,000 Maytag-brand units and about 20,000 Samsung-brand units
Distributor: Maytag Corp., of Newton, Iowa, and Samsung Electronics America Inc., of Ridgefield Park, N.J.
Manufacturer: Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd., of South Korea
Hazard: Water leakage onto the electrical connections to the washing machine’s thermal sensor could cause an electrical short and ignite a circuit board, posing a fire hazard to consumers.
Incidents/Injuries: Maytag has received five reports of incidents involving ignition in the circuit board. Samsung has received one report of an incident involving ignition in the circuit board. No injuries, fires or property damage outside the washing machine have been reported.
Description and Models: The recall involves certain Maytag and Samsung brand front-load washers. The Maytag washers have model numbers beginning with MAH9700 or MAH8700. The Samsung model number WF306BHW or a model number beginning with WF316. Not all serial numbers are subject to the recall. The model and serial numbers are located on a tag at the bottom of the door opening. Maytag models with a serial number ending in the last two letters identified below are subject to the recall:
2005 GA GC GE GG GJ GL GN GP GR GT GV GX
2006 JA JC JE JG JJ JL JN
Sample Maytag Serial Number: 10123456GN
Samsung models with the six-digit number 100001 through 799999 prior to a letter at the end of the serial number are subject to the recall:
Sample Samsung Serial Number: 230854AL300026B
Sold at: Major department and appliance stores nationwide from April 2005 through August 2006 for between $1,000 and $1,200.
Manufactured in: South Korea
Remedy: Consumers should immediately contact the firm for information on how to receive a free repair. Consumers should not return the washing machine to the retailer where it was purchased.
Consumer Contact: For more information, consumers can call Maytag toll-free at (800) 868-5109 between 9 a.m. and 9 p.m. ET Monday through Friday, or go to Maytag’s Web site at http://www.washerrecall.com - Samsung customers can call (800) 515-7902 between 9 a.m. and 9 p.m. ET Monday through Friday, or go to Samsung’s Web site at http://www.Samsung.com/washerrecall
Maytag Media Contact: Monica Teague, (269) 923-7405 or monica.teague@Whirlpool.com
Samsung Media Contact: Deborah Szajngarten at (201) 229-4090 or dszajngarten@sea.samsung.com
Picture of Recalled Maytag Washing Machine Picture of Recalled Samsung Washing Machine
To Life, not crooks in corporate crime!!!
James Joyce
July 10th, 2008 at 3:45 am
If anyone’s comment needs to be removed it’s jamvf… the one who truly needs medication. “I’m not sure what your rantings about a horrifying crime of sodomy has to do with a washer” is correctly punctuated with a period. It is a statement and not an inquiry. I am not a defender for Frigidaire/Electrolux/Sears or for their products and I sympathize with everyone who has had problems. Hyperbolic rants and characterizations of a design flaw/faulty product/corporate customer noservice as sexual crimes (sodomy/rape) are truly odd and add nothing productive to this discussion.
July 11th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Jim,
How about issues? I don’t see you addressing why Maytag, on its own initiative, recalled its defective product while others manufacturers with similar issues have not?????? Should you suffer the consequences of a defective products, i.e. water damage to your property or worse fire and or “electrocution” of a loved one, you might feel different, maybe even raped. Yes symbolism/words express disgust for this rip-off scam. Can’t handle words so you attack me!! No ‘drugs” required here here Jim. However I think you might be in need a of: “a dose of reality!” Better yet, how about a “cold one” and the death of a few million brain cells???
July 11th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
I agree with James on the whole corporate scam thing. I too just gave Sears $75 for them to tell me that my Kenmore/Frigidaire washer needs $600 worth of repairs - same as posts before. My question is - LG seems to the be brand most posters agree on?? Or are there others?
Thanks.
July 12th, 2008 at 4:40 am
Finally re-assembled the machine yesterday. It took less time to put together than to take apart - thanks in part to my wife who hooked on the springs while I help up the drum assembly and to the fact that the drum came fully assembled. Just a word to the wise for those other DIY types… make sure that the front rubber seal is properly aligned - so that the arrows match. Mine is off by ~ 1/8″ and it shows…
Thanks everyone for your input. Hoping this baby lasts another 5 years at least!
July 14th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
I have the HE4t washer with a broken aluminum spider arm, however my machine has the model number that starts with 110, so I guess it is made by Whirlpool. Will the spider arm for a Frigidaire (part number 131618500) fit both the 110 Whirlpool and the 417 Frigidaire machines? When I look at the Frigidaire part (http://www2.shopping.com/-frigidaire+131618500) the basket is somewhat different than mine. There is no hole in the basket of my machine and the basket appears shorter. I can reuse my old basket if the arm is the same.
July 14th, 2008 at 6:34 pm
Andres,
Thanks for agreeing with me, but also for expressing your agreement in a post that says: “I agree with James on the whole corporate scam thing. I too just gave Sears $75 for them to tell me that my Kenmore/Frigidaire washer needs $600 worth of repairs - same as posts before.” No scam here Jim!!!
Maybe the Fed can bailout Sears if they are sued and lose? BTW, nice to see the new generation of front load washers: “have the same problem!” Jim, what a great deal for the duped consumer?
1200.00
+ 75.00
+ 600.00
$1,875.00 + tax “Because of a defective design, by design?”
Corporate Slime conducting corporate crime!
July 14th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
The Sears repair guy even said that it was simply a bad design. I’m not sure if Frigidaire fixed this in their new version - but Sears seems to still be selling the same washer both under the Kenmore as well as the Frigidaire name. The sales guy at Sears after asking all the standard lame questions that imply my fault - “did you use liquid HE detergent?” etc.” - he said - “well.. you should avoid that machine for the next purchase.” Without skipping a beat he offered to take 10% off either an LG or Samsung - “today only.” He had no explanation for the discount offer “today only.” I figured it out when the very next day Sears began offering 15% off all washers. This should not be news to Americans that Corporations are incapable of shame by design. I’m glad I didn’t buy from Sears again. James is correct in his scathing indictment of the corporate scam and the lack of government help in holding them accountable for their crimes. I ended up buying an LG from Best Buy who offered a better deal anyway.
July 14th, 2008 at 7:07 pm
Oh by the way the bum Sears front load washer I am referring to is the Kenmore 417.4314220 manufactured by Frigidaire (for Google sake)… I’m done with Kenmore.
July 22nd, 2008 at 11:14 am
A post concerning the recall of Maytag front load washer was removed from this site. I wonder why????
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/recalls04/2005/maytag.html
http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/21/maytag-repairman-panics-as-company-recalls-quarter-million-washe/
“Apparently, they have the nasty habit of leaking water onto the electrical connections inside, potentially causing a short and a fire as a result. While there’s been reports of five such incidents so far, none have resulted in injuries or damages beyond the washing machine itself. Those stuck with one of the washers are advised to contact Maytag or Samsung for information on getting a free repair.”
Check out the links and ask yourself some simple logical questions
?
July 24th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Looks like we’re the lastest victim. Our 2 1/2 year old HE3 front loader is making a loud clanking noise during the spin cycle so we had sears repair come and take a look. $990 quote to replace the tub/basket/bearing assembly since the bearing apparently cannot be replaced by itself. What a complete joke. As if i’m going to invest this much $ into a machine that cost the same amount 2 years ago.
July 24th, 2008 at 8:58 pm
Well, I have taken my shot at Sears Customer Service and they will not accept any responsbility for the design flaw. The pointed out that because I made the repair, and that the machine is approx. 7 years old, that there is no longer any warranty. I had asked for reimbursement of the cost of the parts ($180) and for a $100 in gift certificates for the inconvenience and for the money spent at the laundromat while I was waiting for the part.
I am drafting a letter that I will be forwarding to the local media (there are several consumer advocate guys on the local Toronto news), as well as to the Canadian Government Office of Consumer Affairs, the BBB, Consumer Reports, and any other consumer rights groups that I can find. In my mind, we should be reimbursed where we have already had the machine fixed, and if you have a machine that hasn’t failed, it should be the subject of a recall.
I urge everyone that has faced this issue, to do something similar…
July 24th, 2008 at 11:53 pm
Rick…Isn’t that HE3 made by Whirlpool? I thought the design flaw was only on the front load washer made by Frigidaire. Interesting. Again…no more Kenmore for me. The $60 coupon the Sears repair people give you to buy a new washer at Sears didn’t make up for the $900 - $1000 loss??? “Suck it up” - as some on this thread might advise - “the capitalist market will correct itself”….at your expense I would add…*sigh* oh well…
Chris - hopefully the Canadian government is more likely to hold corporations like Sears accountable. The US government (where I live) is too busy rollin’ in bed with ‘em to hold them accountable!!
July 25th, 2008 at 1:46 am
Kenmore makes none of their products. To avoid Kenmore, you’d have to avoid Frigidaire, Electrolux, Whirlpool, Maytag (who is now owned by Whirlpool) and who knows whom else Kenmore will make agreements with to produce future products. Doesn’t LG make Kenmore’s high end steam washers?
I think it’s very unfortunate that people like Mr. Joyce make this a hostile place. But civility long ago disappeared on this forumn. I’m just glad I got the help I needed in fixing my washer before it became ugly enough to never visit here again.
July 25th, 2008 at 4:04 am
yeah Jim - they gotta make a killing…uh…I mean profit somehow! It’s the American way! Go Korea! (where LG comes from)…
July 26th, 2008 at 4:12 am
Hi, unfortunately i have been raped just like all you other people who own the front loading washing machines! I have a kenmore or Whirlpool–(not for sure and i don’t car anymore) He3 & all i can tell you is is is a piece of junk. I started a load of clothes as ususal ( and i only use liquid detergent ) and on the final spin this god awful knocking noise started and it was so loud i could not believe it. I knew then something bad was wrong, any way i paid the $69.00 for Sears to come out and tell me it was going to cost $1,200.00 to repair! I bought an exteneded warranty about 3yrs ago & decided not to do another one. Any way the warranty expired so now i am out some major dollars. I think my machine is somewhere between 5-6 yrs old way too young for problems. I think the repair man said it was the shaft inside the drum. After reading about all you people who have had the same problems i was absolutely horrified
but i am glad i did see the video. Is there anything that can be done about this problem? I know one thing i would like to take this machine and drop if off in their sales dept & let everyone who buys from Sears take a look at the products they sell. My husband is not a repair man so it looks like i will be hauling it to the dump. I am going to check out the Lg’s and see what they have to offer. Ginger
July 26th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
I have been reading these blogs RE: poor design of front loaders, spider arm breakage for over two months. Great site BTW. I would like to know how many of you have filed a complaint with the BB or the FTC? I have heard all the terms used here for corporate ripoffs etc, but if you do not use the tools available to you by the various organizations, then it is your own fault for not seeign some sort of compensation. There are ways to stop this but YOU must take that first step. So if you have been wronged, please file with the BB AND FTC. This can all be done online. The more that file, the more likely this may come to an end in the future.
I am not sure what percentage of these machines have this failure mode. Talking to some folks that know the gory details of metal in water - it would be nearly all. IMHO this is a latent defect designed in to the product for what ever reason. I work for a large company and sometimes the right hand does not know what the left is doing. I am sure the company that OEMs this drum assembly is embarrassed. Maybe not. Maybe the key people do not even know about it. Inform them.
A few emthods come to mind to inform these people, if you push the company they may make a deal with you. If not the FTC will monitor this and investigate. Also if enough get together a class action can be brought - yes I know long and drawn out - but there are a ton of hungry lawyers out there. I doubt just emails and phone calls to the company will elevate your issue much past a second level supervisor. You want to get real action, go on the blogs for the finacials and/or write the CEO/COO directly. Buy stock in the company and show up at the yearly meeting. The key is just a little extra pressure with the correct destination address… I once called and wrote Lee Iacoca(sp?) about parts that were in tight supply. My car had been sidelined for 4 weeks due to lack of part. After I called and wrote (well before wide availbility of email), my parts mysteriously showed up 3 days later.
I too had one of these defective machines. I can not disclose the nature of the out come, but I am satisfied. From what I have heard new models have now resolved this. This could be a load of bull also. I would probably not buy one for a while even with the new design or talk to a mechanic who might know some inside scoop.
Again please do your part and see what happens. These companies are not cold to having thier brand bashed/tarnished. It does catch up and remember the old phrase the squeaky wheel gets the grease. How much rust can you toss on the axle?
Best of luck,
July 26th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
Well put MeHere…it’s not enough to restrict your complaints to this forum…
I have submitted my experience to the BBB, as well as to a local Television station with a nightly consumer advocate report, and two major papers (Toronto Sun and Star). Have copied Sears on all submissions to ensure that they understand that I will not accept their arrogance and their lack of ownership/responsibility on this issue. Needless to say, I will also be speaking with my wallet and will not shop there until this is resolved. And of course, I will also share this story at every opportunity.
Here is the North American BBB website - you can link to either the US or Canadian chapters from there.
http://welcome.bbb.org/
In Canada, you can also report issues through the CSA website (and also search for product recalls)…below is the link to the report submission page:
http://www.csa-international.org/product_recalls/report/Default.asp?language=english
July 29th, 2008 at 12:41 am
Neil,
If you still check this site we should talk. I am in Bath, ME and purchased a front loader from the Brunswick store and would like to know how things turned out for you. Mine is apart in my garage with a broken spider of all things.
July 29th, 2008 at 2:00 am
Should have posted more recently, but it’s been back together with new bearings and seals - not from Sears, and very quiet. Instructions on disassembling and reassembling (from somewhere on the web…) were pretty helpful. If you’ve been lucky like me and still have a spider in decent shape, I recommend taking it to a machine shop and having them press out the bearings & press in some decent ones - Timkin or SK, something that’s not junk.
I never did any sort of coating on the spider - I simply scrubbed everything down thoroughly and reassembled. For what it’s worth, apparently moderately alkaline water is more likely to cause rapid corrosion of the cast aluminum than if the water is slightly acidic. Based on old chemistry knowledge, but suspect it to be accurate, if only because my own water runs very slightly acidic, and I had no visible corrosion on a 7 year old machine.
Anybody looking for pointers on DIY repair feel free to respond - I can help a little while it’s still fresh in my mind. Hoping to get more than 7 years out of this repair.
July 29th, 2008 at 2:11 am
Ron, Just so happened I was watching my e-mail. I called Sears and told them about the implied warranty law that Maine has on the books, they sent a service guy out at no charge to me, and a few days ago I sent in a complaint to the attorney general because I’m still not happy. There is a form you can fill out and mail it to them. It has to be within 4 years. My washer went out 3 years 9 mos. The store did send a service guy out and he ordered the basket and spider assembly but the scored drum worries me. I got the basket assembly a couple of weeks ago and put it back together myself and it works okay but I think it leaks a little. They payed for the basket,gasket and original service call. $280.00. The spider arm is the same as what I took out so it most likely won’t last more than another 3 1/2 years.
You need to call the Sears at Brunswick get a manager tell them they better do something as that your not the first. Refer to Maine law. Next contact attorney generals office take pictures make 3 copies, send Sears corporate, Electolux, and attorney general. http://www.maine.gov/tools/whatsnew/attach.php?id=27922&an=1
let me know how you make out. We need to stick together.
July 29th, 2008 at 2:16 am
Ron & Neil
I’m also in Maine - nearer Bangor. Can you elaborate on the 4 year thing? I’m kind of curious if I can get either a) something back from the repairs I had to do, or b) some sort of additional guarantee against the spider letting go Real Soon Now..
Thanks,
Herb
July 29th, 2008 at 2:21 am
Ah. Implied Warranty:
http://maine.gov/tools/whatsnew/index.php?topic=AGOffice_Consumer_Law_Guide&v=article&id=27922
I’m 7 years out from new. Dang. Never mind.
Herb.
July 29th, 2008 at 2:53 am
If enough people show evidence and complain maybe it will result in a class action suit. As the gentleman said the sqeeky wheel.
Herb, you need to read the implied warranty law i posted earlier. Its in PDF format. Ron, You still may have a case.
July 29th, 2008 at 3:24 am
FYI, There is supposed to be a lifetime warranty on the spider arm and basket. At least that is what the service man told me. That’s why i got mine.
July 31st, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Glad I found this forum, especially the instructions to disassemble my 6 year old GE front load washer because I, too, have a very loud spin cycle.
Here’s where I stand, and I need some feedback on what is problem and what to do:
Inner tub and spider assembly look great, no breakage and very little, if any, corrosion (I’m lucky I guess) but I still have some ‘extended screw’ scraping on rear shell??? I thought I read on this forum that the scraping is due to a broken spider??? Could it be something else?
My rear outer shell, inside and out, is a mess due to oily substance all over the place (seems to be eminating from the bearing area). Does this mean I need to replace the rear shell with bearing or just the bearing???
TJ
July 31st, 2008 at 5:16 pm
TJ -
Congrats on being lucky. If the bearings were really worn, it _could_ cause the scoring. Clean the spider up really well and make sure it’s ok before proceeding….
My suggestions:
1) Take plenty of pictures now.
2) Take the rear tub assy. to a local machine shop, have them press out the bearings and seals and order new (decent grade) ones.
3) Take the tub back with you so you can scrub both halves out. Mine too was covered in oil. Take this downtime to remove the concrete weights from the front half of the tub, carefully remove the rubber boot from the front panel, and clean the spider really well.
4) When the new bearings are in, bring the tub back to the machine shop and have them install.
5) Reassemble the tub. I put a _thin_ layer of silicon caulking between the two tub halves when I did it (in addition to the white seal that’s already there), just to be on the safe side.
6) Slap it back together. Two needle-nose pliers work well to put the clip back on the rubber boot over the fill spout. That was probably the hardest part of reassembly.
Good luck,
Herb.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Oh, and trim the ends off the screws. A hacksaw will do, or a grinder. Anything to make them not stick out about 3/8 of an inch….
I knew I’d forget something…
Herb.
July 31st, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Thanks Herb.
Why the pictures?
Do I remove the spider and clean or clean as attached (and what do I use to clean with?
Is it wise to remove the current white shell seal and clean it? Or leave in its current place/space?
TJ
July 31st, 2008 at 6:44 pm
Pictures - insurance in case you need references for reassembly, or to compare against for next time, assuming there is one. I dunno, I take pictures pretty obsessively, one of the benefits of digital cameras, I guess.
I left the white seal in place, cleaned it with rubbing alcohol, and then applied a thin layer of silicon caulking.
You can clean the spider while attached to the drum, but it’s a whole lot easier to unbolt it and then clean up. I used a scotchbrite scrubby thing an a hose, for what it’s worth. There’s a bunch of crevices on the underside that are annoying to clean up. Any sort of degreaser works - I had some concentrated citrus-based stuff that I used on everything to make sure the grease/oil was gone.
I also used locktite thread locker on the bolts that hold the spider to the drum during reassembly - bad mental visions of one or more of those bolts working their way loose during a spin cycle made me do it…probably overkill, but who knows. It looked like there was some one there when they came out.
July 31st, 2008 at 6:59 pm
Thanks again.
I tried to get spider off after taking off the 6 bolts, its not coming off. So be it after a power wash and brillo scrub.
TJ
PS. My son counted 18 new cuts from this exercise.
PSS. The stainless steel tub can be used as a super cheese grater if all else fails.
July 31st, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Spider removal from drum : the bolts have - if you look closely - a tapered, or wedge shape under the head, kinda like what a wheel nut looks like. Short version is that the drum has a matching bevel, and so does the spider, so the bevels on the drum still stick into the spider slightly. It’ll pry out with a little care. Took me a minute to convince myself as well, but it’ll be fine. Might need a couple blocks of wood and a small pry bar.
+1 on the cheese grater. I wrapped my drum in a large (old) blanket for all of this process. Saved on the cuts a bit.
Herb.
July 31st, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Neil, I’m not on the computer daily so I just got your reply, thanks. I went to Sears (Brunswick) on Tuesday and they sent a repair man out today (Thursday) at no charge like they did for you. He ordered a new spin basket and rear tub with bearings at no charge. They may be starting to replace that rear tub if you push them due to the damage the shaft can do to the bearings when the spider breaks. I’ll do the attorny general stuff this weekend when I have more time. FYI my washer is 4 years 3 months old, what junk. I too will be looking for a new washer in 3 1/2 years and guess where I won’t go although I may continue to get the spider and basket replaced every 4 years or so just to bug them.
The parts should be here in 7-10 days, how long will I really have to wait, my wife is curious.
August 1st, 2008 at 1:57 am
To Ron and All,
I’m waiting to here from Sears and or Electolux as I received a notice back from the attorney generals office to let them know what the outcome is. I sent out 3 letters with PICTURES to them. I’ve only heard back from the ATG office. I haven’t gotten my tub replaced, only the basket and gasket. I’m hoping to get the tub too as it was scored up so bad I think it may be leaking. Not knowing anything about the bearings. By the way it took about a week for the basket and 2 weeks for the gasket.
August 4th, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Front load washers are a bad value. A premium price with a pitch for it to be recovered by supply and utility savings that is seldom realized. My advice is to shop the near low end of the top load models. While lacking digital displays and candy colored paint jobs your clothes will be just as clean and you wallet less flat. I know this is no answer to the question but hopefully some shoppers will land here and I might save them some money and headache.
August 5th, 2008 at 5:55 pm
This is amazing. We have had the exact same problem as shown in the video clip twice now. The first time it happened, our Kenmore (Frigidaire) front load washer was 4 years old. It is now 5 years later and the exact same thing has happened again. The spider gear failed and broke apart, resulting in the aforementioned screws in the inside tub scoring the outside wash tub. After dismantling the machine to verify our problem we called Sears and were told that we would have to wait two weeks for a service repair person to come out and (pay for the service call) to tell us what we already knew. The 25 year warranty on the drum would not be valid otherwise. We opted to order the replacement kit and do the work ourselves. After a three week wait, the part finally arrived and we have our machine working again. CONSIDERING THE WELL DOCUMENTED DEFECT IN THIS MACHINE AND SEARS FAILURE TO STAND BEHIND WHAT IT SELLS WE WILL NO LONGER SHOP FOR APPLIANCES AT SEARS.. FRUSTRATED AND DISAPPOINTED IN SAINT JOHN NB
August 7th, 2008 at 3:05 am
Wanda? Don’t go through Sears. They are infamous for customer noservice. I would recommend the most effective complaint would be to Frigidaire. If that provides an unsatisfactory outcome, then move to Atty General/BBB route etc.
All of you who are frustrated (James Joyce included) I never meant to say that it wasn’t a problem or that it wasn’t serious or say that it isn’t frustrating. I’m just the kind of person who is not going to waste emotional energy on an appliance. I’d rather put that energy into fixing the problem myself. I’ve done this with the furnace, the A/C, the plumbing, problems with my cars… etc. And I didn’t realize I was that “handy,” just that we have the internet now and you can basically find out how to do anything.
Herb? I wish I would’ve gone your route and taken the damned thing to a machine shop. I probably could’ve just gotten new bearings and a new bearing seal and used all the original parts and saved lots of money. But the wife was away for a week and I wanted it all put back together and ready to do laundry on Saturday when she returned. I do wonder why you would take the time to hack off the ends of the screws when they’re not even necessary. They are held securely by a metal clip in the metal basket itself. Oh… and I used leather gloves as much as I could for the entire project (especially getting near the cheese grater). So I was cut free (thank Heaven). Has anyone else tried putting insulation underneath the drain pump (which after my repairs became the loudest part of the machine)? I did that and can’t believe the difference. I may have mentioned this before but I have mine on rubber isolators which prevents movement and insulates against noise, as ours is on the second floor on tile.
Owen? I agree that the “top model” front loaders ARE a bad value. My sis bought a $1500 Samsung last year and IT started spinning loud after 2 months. But I disagree that they don’t save money in the long run. I realize I’m kind of a “green freak” and I can laugh at myself about it front load washers do use less electricity to run but most of the energy savings comes from less drying time (which would use less electricity or gas). Some are able to spin at speeds of up to 1500 RPM (The Frigidaires we’re talking about spin at about 950 RPM on the final spin for the regular cycle). I hang my clothes out to dry saving even more energy (and the sun is great at bleaching tomato based stains). They are very conservative with water. I would never go back to a toploader… ever. FLs are gentler on clothing and I’ve found that my clothes come out cleaner. They do make new style top loaders without a traditional agitator and have higher spin speeds but they cost almost as much as top line FLs.
My first experience with frontloaders was in Europe (there they even make washers and dryers that use the same basket to both wash then dry the clothes… and in a lot of the UK, they’re installed in the kitchen under the counter, which I always thought was a weird place to do laundry).
Oh, Herb? I was going to ask you, for those of us who don’t know bearing speak, how did you find out what would be the best bearings? (I just wanted to be prepared if this happens again in ten years).
Did the machine shop recommend them or what?
August 7th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Jim, not sure about who has spent emotional energy, but the key issue here is the defective design resulting in a lower than expected life span all at increased cost of the equipment. We bought a Frigidaire washer many years ago that lasted 15 years with moderate use (3 kids). It just ran, no issues except a minor leak from a hose fitting - easy $2 fix with 30 minute of time.
How many people are going to make a $300+ repair plus peronal labor every three to five years on a machine that may have costed $500 initially. Not sure about the rest of you folks but my personal time off is worth to me alot more than I would pay a service tech. OK I agree some of us like to tinker - I too enjoy the tear down and reassembly. I would choose to do this once with a fixed design rather than replace the defective design with a similar.
As for energy savings - yes I agree but at what cost? After all is said and done does anyone save money in the long run. Sure you might save water and electricity but the savings is sent to the company for repair parts.
So to end this story, I am nearing an agreement with the OEM of this machine and will move away from these types of machines until I hear of better days. Does anyone need spare parts? The spider arm is gone but the remainder of the parts are in good shape for those who enjoy tinkering. Respond with an email and I will contact you with the details.
August 7th, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Does anyone need a “new unused inner stainless steel tub?” You see, I was “forced” to buy this “tub” I did not need just so I could obtain a new spider bracket, (made in India) which has not been re-engineered or modified in anyway to address premature structural failure? What a deal for the consumer? This is a scam!
August 10th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
I am yet another victim. Mine is about 6 years old. I am urging everyone to report this scam.
August 17th, 2008 at 8:12 am
My Kenmore front loader (417-42052100, manufactured 11/01) started to do some knocking during the beginning of the spin cycle, and then one night several months later the knocking turned into a cacophony of banging and suddenly the stainless drum was sitting about 6-8 inches lower than it should, still turning but very unevenly and loudly. Clothes were heavy with water when the cycle finally finished. The empty drum now sits too low and seems to lean back as if barely hanging onto the rubber seal. I am assuming that the spider arms are broken, but can someone confirm for me before I call the Sears repair folks? I may decide on a replacement rather than a repair. Will also send my complaint to the BBB and FTC. If anyone knows of the proper URL for those sites, I’d appreciate it.
This is really depressing–my washer was just about the favorite thing I owned until now. I MISS it!!!
Thanks for whatever advice you can suggest.
August 23rd, 2008 at 3:03 am
Latest update, All of you who get the automatic e-mails I thought you may be interested in my outcome. Sears is replacing my machine. I’m not sure which model but I should get it the beginning of next week. The attorney general swayed the outcome and I thank them so much for their help.
August 31st, 2008 at 4:27 pm
I had a Kenmore front load washer (Model 417. 42042100) since May 18, 2002. The washer started making noise last week and the drum can be easily swayed, so it is obvious that the spider bracket is broken. I will follow the instructions and try to repair.
A few things to note:
1. This thread has gone for almost one year, but where is the consumer actions?
2. It appears that some customers have got good treatment by Sears through your local elected leaders.
3. Some people blamed the design defect on the spider bracket on China and India. Where is the quality control? From the discussions here, the defect was on purpose, by the profit driven Corporate!!!
4. If I cannot trust a brand that has already established, I would go for a brand that is famous and reliable outside of USA and is eager to gain market share in the USA.
September 1st, 2008 at 7:42 pm
I have lovely grease and oil streaks in my whites now. I am assuming tbis is from the bearings, as I do believe I am hearing new noises now from the unit. I have the Kenmore front loader, manufactured 03-00, model 970-c29042-00.
Sears canada is due over Wednesday, starting at 75$. Should I cancel him and just go out and get an LG or Bosch. My time is money and I dont have the skill or inclination to fix it myself.
From what my father, a retired retailer says, appliances are built to last 5-10 years, similar to American cars. Manufacturers assume you will scrap and upgrade. Repairmen and tinkerers are a dying breed. When`s the last time you fixed a TV or a laptop…when they break, you simply toss them and buy a new one.
Anyway, please email me or leave a comment here or on my blog as to what to buy before the laundry piles up.
tim at tpg1.com
Good news is there is no more oil leaking, I assume it`s totally drained out and now we just have metal on metal…how long can it go I wonder
September 2nd, 2008 at 3:50 am
Tim - Sears offers a coupon to get like $60 off buying a new appliance at Sears when you pay the repair cost. So you get most of your money back - if you buy a new appliance with them. Lately, Sears (in the U.S. anyway) has had 15% off sales on their appliances. Corporations suck…what can I say…it’s all a big game. The tinkerers you make reference to (I’m not one of them) are probably trying to save themselves from getting so badly ripped off…who knows..
September 3rd, 2008 at 5:31 pm
From reading all the posts in here related to Front Load washers I see there is tons of misinformation going around and people guessing what caused the problem. I have ssen many false statements made and blame being laid on product. I have been a service person for over 20 years ( worked for all manufacturers) and heard every excuse people make up to cover up problems they cause. I see in posts that a few people are metal experts , experts in water mineral content and are experts on detergents (leading cause of spider assembly failure is water mineral content issues). I noticed no one post there water quality readings either.I am not sure where people have made up the dollar figures for the complete inner tub assemblies (yes they are available). They retail for $166.00 complete with front boot attatched in Canada. I even looed at the link showing how to replace the bearing yourself. It was quite amusing seeing the mention of the “flash” of plastic. Any service person knows what cause the leaks between the tub halves. To sum it up whether you buy a LG, Meile, Samsung, Maytag, Frigidaire, GE, Bosch, Asko, AEG, Hitatchi or any other brand of front load you are going to get problems with them as described above. I have seen all the above listed in the posts failures on all makes. Frigidaire sold the most so yeat it will have the highest number of complaints, but it has one of the lowest percent complaints.
September 3rd, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Ampharan,
I am not sure what you really mean in your post. It is pretty hard to cover up problems. If the machine is that delicate, then maybe these newer designs are just not ready for market. It is what it is when a service person arrives on site - broken. The key is root cause of the failure.
Are you saying before buying a front loader a buyer needs to get a water test/mineral count? Is the sales person going to be able to say “No this machine will not work with that mineral count.” Does the manual indicate exceptable water contents? No, mine did not. The fact is the the machine failed inside of it’s useful life some at 25% or less that useful life. The root cause is failure of the spider arm assembly and inferior quality materials used to make it in the first place.
You may be missing the point of most of the complaints: Relatively new machines having a catastrophic failure in 3-6 years. You may be able to buy a replacement part for $166. I was quoted $250+/- excluding shipping. This was a pretty average price seen on the web at various locations. Your price may have been a wholesale price.
If your water content is an issue - then I would expect any type of machine to have it’s key water immersion elements become defective in or about the same time. But this apparently does not happen, does it. Sure there will be a rare few machines with infant mortality issues. Ever mass produced product has these. This apparently is not an infant mortality issue.
Frigidare may have sold a majority of the tub assemblies, but these are then rebranded. So an exact number may be skewed.
Apparently those of us that have bought Electrolux/Frigidaire, may have complained Possibly the company may have resolved the issue to a satisfactory level to preempt the majority of further complaints. Doing this knowing that the company may have some liability and trying to protect the brand name from undue tarnish.
If I am wrong fill me in.
September 4th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Everyone Please file a complaint with the Attorney generals office…They say they cannot go after Sears and their washers without enough complaints about early failures. Contact jennifer Redding…502-696-5389….the only way to fight this is join together!
Wow….It is Technicians like Ampharan and his attitude that we are all having these problems. The technicians know that these poorly designed machines give them job security. It is not in their best interest to be conerned about you or me and the headaches these machines cause us. I just had another tech leave my home telling me that my machine was working normal…If you could hear the knocking….My machine vibrated so bad that it was hitting the glass on the door and ripped out the metal ring that hold the rubber boot on. But He said “all your parts are intack and working normal”. It does not take a professional engineer to realize that When the Tech says it is rare for a metal ring to come off….that some force of abnormal behavior has cause this. Which one would conclude that the machine is not in fact working properly. Sears has spent over 5,000 in repairs on my Kenmore He3 over the past 5 years during my warranty…And it never has fallen under their lemon law. They have replaced every part in my machine in this 5 years. My sister has an old machine that she has had for 15 years and still never been serviced. She paid a 1/4 of what i paid. I agree with the last person giving their response. These machines are not suitable for the public. They have designed them to be disposable….PERIOD.
September 4th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
Neil… I see that the Attoney general got your machine replaced. please help me call me I need to know how you got you machine replaced
tenessa 859-496-9809
September 4th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Hi, I thought I’d make a post since I made the first comment here a year ago tomorrow. I feel like I started something big, but too bad it revoles around a peice of crap for machinery. I am with Tenessa and Mehere in there remarks at Ampharan. My failed machine is in my home. I have two rental units with regular top loaders that lasted many many years. I have just replaced them and I got top loaders made by Magic Chef (Whirlpool or Maytag makes them) from Futureshop. Not pretty, but a basic solid machine. When I talked to the service tech(not Sears) who checked my other old machine - he has been servicing for over 20 years and knew exactly what I was talking about when I raised the issue about the Kenmore front load - he stated “that he would never buy anything made by Frigidaire. They will not last due to poor/cheap design” He has seen them fail and others work fine. He recommended a maytag or whirlpool built. I know service people - I worked in Heating and Air conditioning for 9 years - and could tell that he knew what he was talking about from our discussion - very experienced and knowledgeable.
Anyway, I am in Canada. Is this Attorney General complaints thing in the US? If so, what action do we take in Canada?
Happy Anniversary
PS My machine is still working fine with the new drum. Who knows when it will go again though.
Thanks again for the video…whoever you are.
George
September 6th, 2008 at 1:17 am
I want to thank you for bringing up this issue. I have an HE3 and was checking to see if there were any complaints about the product, and this came up. I didn’t have any problems, but like to see what might be coming up. In the last 8-9 months, my machine has started vibrating badly, and knocking things off the top. I fear I am next on the repair list.
September 6th, 2008 at 1:17 am
I want to thank you for bringing up this issue. I have an HE3 and was checking to see if there were any complaints about the product, and this came up. I didn’t have any problems, but like to see what might be coming up. In the last 8-9 months, my machine has started vibrating badly, and knocking things off the top. I fear I am next on the repair list.
September 6th, 2008 at 3:32 am
Conestogaman I am sorry to hear that you are starting to have knocking so soon…I wish that I could stand out in front of appliance stores and warn people. I have had over 4,000 in repairs from 3-5 years and just had to have my machine repaired again. I will pray that you are not in for this.
September 8th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Thank you everyone for your posts. I have the same Kenmore unit as in the video and it started the thumping this past weekend. We’ve had it for just over 8 years, however, the whole tub was replaced just under 4 years ago after just over 4 years of service (under a maintenance contract). I had the regular service contract and they decided it needed replacing before I reported an issue. Now reading this, it seems obvious what was wrong at that the techs had seen it more than once since they checked it on a regular annual maintenance call (always have the regular services calls included with the extended warranties).
Troubleshooting it - I remember the tech pulling the tub back and fourth at the front. If it moves fairly easily and clunks a bit it’s going/gone. When they replaced it the inner tub was much more solid but does still move a bit. It may be hard to recognize the problem when you don’t know what a good one feels like but that’s the best I can suggest from experience.
I’m in Ontario Canada with a service call booked for next Monday (booked it before finding this site). Based on some of the feedback here and looking at the manual the tub does have a 25 year warranty and if the arms are not sold seperately that seems to be a good angle to get at least the parts free of charge. However, I’m not really interested in a) paying for parts and labour, b) paying for parts and doing it myself, c) receiving parts free and doing it myself or finally d) having to do this every four years (even if it was no charge for parts or labour). I have these things stacked, what a pain! I’m going to make some calls today to see what I can find out from Sears/Frigidaire and will report back with what I find out.
September 8th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
I have given up my fight with Sears…they have refused to recognize the design problem and continually point to the fact that my machine is out of warranty. Most of my communication has been through the Better Business Bureau, but I did also go through several of the Toronto media outlets as well with letters outlining my problem.
Personally, for the $180 for the tub which I installed myself, it isn’t worth any more of my time. I am glad that I didn’t try to claim it on the warranty because while I may (I emphasize may) have gotten the part for free, the installation would have cost more from the sounds of it.
I won’t claim that I am never going to shop at Sears again because I have about $360 worth of SearsClub points to cash in and I can use them against a name-brand product (hello new Sony LCD). I will close my Sears card account when I have used up those gift certificates and Sears will be at the bottom of the list when I consider any new purchases. They have spoken with their ignorance of the issue and I will speak with my wallet in the future. Who knows, maybe I will send them a list of my purchases with other retailers each year to let them know what they missed out on…
Best of luck to all who fight them and I hope that you at least fight with them long enough that they spend $150 in payroll and phone calls(or whatever the cost of the repair is in your particular case is) in responding to the complaint. Once you run out of energy, shop there as little as possible.
September 10th, 2008 at 2:39 am
Hi everyone-
I too have the 417… purchased 1/04. $130 3yr sucker plan expired 1/07. Machine failed 9/7/08. THUMP THUMP THUMP THUMP, etc.
(We are just 2 people. 4 loads/wk, tops. my math says thats about 948 total washes. Awesome. My last washer was from mid 70’s- i was too cheap to buy the $120 timer…)
So- the manual says tub is warranted for life but i must pay for installation. Repair guy coming on 9/11 to give quote.
Has anyone had repair done this way? Am i missing something?
Any ideas of cost? any more advice?
(i must admit, I haven’t finished reading all posts yet..)
thanks to y’all-
and special thanks to video guy.
chris
Also- has anyone seen this lawsuit? my washer stinks, too.
http://www.landroverclassaction.com/pages/cases.php?id=412
September 10th, 2008 at 2:59 am
Chris Z - yeah, Sears will charge like $600. $60 (or was it $70?) to come out. You’ll get a coupon for the same amount off of a new appliance at Sears. I waited until Sears was running a 15% off sale (along w/ the coupon) on appliances and got the cheapest LG.
So far (2.5 months and probably 100’s of washes now) the LG is great and WAY quieter. No more American-made washers for me until discussions like this are very old.
September 10th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
I buy one frigidaire galery with the bearing broke, I buy the bearings (two, one inside and one outside), and the oil seal, I spend $55.00 and my time, by the way I change the screwes on the drum outside to inside, the machine work perfect. I dont buy the parts form sears because they dont sale it.
September 18th, 2008 at 6:41 am
I just had that metal ring fly out of my washer. I have no idea where it came from! Can anyone tell me where it goes?
Whatever happened in my washer today tore a linens bag in half!!!
Help! I do not want to have to call Sears out!
Thanks!
September 18th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Melissa, I had this happen to me 2 weeks ago. is this metal ring the size of the opening of the washer? if so, this holds the rubber boot in place if this is correct you will have water everywhere and not be able to use your washer. This metal ring is not that expensive and the Sears tech only took minutes to install the new one. He said this never happens…but it happened to me an you. have you had trouble with your machine vibrating heavily? I believe this is what caused my metal ring to be ripped out. it also did damage to my clothes.
tenessa
September 18th, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Tenessa,
Thank you so much! That is exactly what it is! Do you know how I put it back on? Can you take a pic of your boot a and ring and send it to me so I can see where it goes? I was up until 1AM trying to figure it out. I think my part is okay, so I dont want to have to call someone out to put it back on. It is a metal ring wiht a coil on one part of it. Where does the coil fit in the boot? Thanks so much!!!!!!
Best,
Melissa@benaroya.net
September 18th, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Tenessa,
Thank you so much! That is exactly what it is! Do you know how I put it back on? Can you take a pic of your boot and ring and send it to me so I can see where it goes? I was up until 1AM trying to figure it out. I think my part is okay, so I dont want to have to call someone out to put it back on. It is a metal ring wiht a coil on one part of it. Where does the coil fit in the boot? Thanks so much!!!!!!
Best,
Melissa@benaroya.net
September 18th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Tenessa,
How much did you spend to repair? They offered to charge me 204 for a repair and 1 year warranty!
September 18th, 2008 at 5:14 pm
It’s unpleasant to do yourself, FWIW (assuming it’s the spring that holds the boot to the outer plastic drum)
You get to disassemble the machine enough to remove the outer drum, take the boot off the front panel, remove concrete weights from the plastic drum, put the boot & spring back on the outer drum, reattach the weights and reinstall the drum & glue the boot back to the front panel. And there’s an extra-fidgety clip on the boot where the fill comes in which is unpleasant.
If you’re even semi-handy, it’s certainly doable, it’s just a few hours of time.
OTOH, a better question is why this would have come off in the first place - excessive vibration is the only cause I can think of, which bodes ill for the bearings & spider….
Good luck.
September 18th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
If you gonna disasembled the machine check the bearings and the oil seal, and remember to cut the screws or you can install the screws from outside to inside, secure with silicone that way you dont have more problems later, good luck
September 19th, 2008 at 3:41 am
Melissa, The repair technician was able to acomplish this repair without having to take anything thing apart other than the rubber boot. Unfortunately I did not pay close attention. He did the entire repair right from the opening of the door. The cost of the repair was…$158.41…my metal ring was mangled…however the part was less then 20.00. One thing I remember about what he did, was he first took out the rubber boot. Then installed the ring and then reconnected the rubber boot. Start to finish the repair took about 15 minutes. Sorry I can’t be more help
September 19th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Wow. Better tools/more dexterous than I am. I can see how it might be possible, but given the size of the opening & how much that spring stretches to go around the whole tub, it’d be tough.
September 19th, 2008 at 1:39 pm
Spring installation through front opening.
I used to rubber lined furniture clamps to aid in getting the spring back in, I lubed the spring with veg oil to aid in it slipping over the rubber, I placed one clamp at 6 o’clock and worked the spring oround couterclockwise, moving the second clamp along behind my thumb and fingers to “hold” what I had when my hands needed a break to rest. I would not have been able to keep the spring in place with out the clamps. good luck
September 19th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
I used two rubber-faced, furniture clamps to aid in getting the spring back in, I lubed the spring with veg oil to aid in it slipping over the rubber, I placed one clamp at 6 o’clock and worked the spring oround couterclockwise, moving the second clamp along behind my thumb and fingers to “hold” what I had when my hands needed a break to rest. I would not have been able to keep the spring in place with out the clamps.
The clamps were the pistol grip style furniture clamps, I did take the door off, two screws to give me more room to work through the opening. again,
good luck
September 22nd, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Just an FYI.
Sears Parts and Service (Canada) sells a inner/outer drum kit that includes the inner and outer drum all assembled for $152.99 CAD. This would give you both the rear bearings (rear drum pt#131525500) and the spider arm (inner drum pt#131618500) and save you some time and money. If your bearing have gone it’s likely that the spider arm needs replacing also. To buy these seperately it costs $135 and $190 respectively ($325 combined plus you’ll probably need the $17 gasket).
The catch is that they will not sell to the consumer, only to the technicians and they have to do the work as there is a 25 year warrantee on the stainless steel drum. To get around this, go to the Sears Parts and Service facility and ask for part 134453200. From what I experienced and from what I’ve researched they should sell it to you. They will however document the purchase which will void your warrantee.
As for the repair, I recommend this document >> http://www.applianceblog.com/washers/RearBearingV6.pdf .
Also, here is a list of Manufactures that use these parts >> Kenmore, Frigidaire, Gallery, Gibson, Whirlpool, Maytag, G.E.
September 22nd, 2008 at 5:01 pm
You can order discreetly via a Sears Canada website…nobody to question if I am a technician
Below is the direction that I was given when I inquired on the part # back in June - details on how to complete the form and I never had to speak with anyone…I received a call about 5 days after I ordered it telling me it was ready to be picked up. This is for the whole assembly (inner and outer tubs, rear flywheel). The good thing (if there is one in this mess) is that they only charge you $6.00 for the shipping to the catalogue agent.
Website for the inquiry: http://www5.sears.ca/hips.nsf/eparts
******************************************************************
ITEM : 26 970134453200
DESCRIPTION : TUB KIT
SELL PRICE : 152.99 EXP. DATE : 06/27/08
The trip charge is roughly around 80.00$ + part + labour .. we do not have a houtly rate… Charges are confirmed by our technicians
If you wish to order by internet, you must resubmit your Part Inquiry/Request with the information in all the fields stating part # above in appropriate field. Do not forget to give your complete address with #, street name, city, phone #. Also in Additional Comments you must indicate your credit card # with exp. date. Delivery charges of $ 6.00 and Taxes are applicable on all orders..
September 22nd, 2008 at 11:33 pm
This is appalling. Sears/Kenmore used to be the gold standard for practically everything. A little over a year ago I bought 4 major appliances from Sears. There were hassles galore at every turn during delivery, rebate processing, exchange,and lack of any kind of customer service. I wrote down every attempt to contact both the local Sears store and corporate to correct all the problems I was having through out the entire process. I never once received any type of acknowledgment from Sears at any level let alone an apology.
I have vowed never ever to spend one more cent at Sears.
Now my front loading washer model #110 has developed a problem. About half way through the wash it stops and flashes the trouble shooting code F30. The owners manual only says it’s an electrical problem and I should call for service. It’s just past the one year warranty. Interesting.
September 23rd, 2008 at 12:03 am
Debbie this is not surprising. YOu are just one of the many that have discovered that sears is not what it used to be. These machines are designed to fail. My first one had major issues in the first year but that was over 5 years ago and sears replaced it then. my 2nd one quickly started to have problems and here I am 5 years later and Sears has spent over $4,000 repairing and will not honor their replacement guarentee under their Master Protection agreeement. I am sorry for your misfortune unfortunately this is the NEW Sears. If you love your family and freinds tell them to stay away from Sears.
tenessa
September 23rd, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Hello:
Just for the record As of today I am able to order part as Chris from AJAX ontario described to a Sears warehouse in my area. Being able to replace the whole tub assembly seems like there should be a huge time savings but in reading the how to at (http://www.applianceblog.com/washers/RearBearingV6.pdf) I am trying to figure out how much. I may be forced to make a move sooner rather than later because our machine is getting quite noisy although I suspect bearings or those screw ends more than I suspect a failed spider assembly… At any rate I should have enough parts to do a rebuild over the longer term if the spider isn’t too corroded..
I am reading the how to
The part that interests you is
ITEM : 26 970134453200
DESCRIPTION : TUB KIT
S ELL PRICE :$ 152.99 EXP. DATE : 09/26/08
De livery charges of 10% (Minimum $ 6.95; Maximum $ 50.00) and Taxes are applicable on all orders.
To order please call 1-800-4-MY-HOME/1-800-469-4663.
Thank you & Have a nice day !
Maria Gouvis
Sears parts on line
Sears pièces en lignes
September 23rd, 2008 at 11:47 pm
Just finished putting in the the tub kit, took exactly 3 hours to install and it works great. It took quite the act to get the part. I live in the Seattle area and ordered it from Sears in Canada and had it shipped to a friend in Vancouver Canada, it never arrived because it’s a part only technicians can order. So I reordered the part and had it shipped to the Vancouver store and it arrived. I had my friend pick it up and drive it down to me in the Seattle area and installed it myself. Ordering the part is the most difficult part of the whole repair. The total cost me $152.99 for the part and $14.74 for shipping for a total of $167.73. This was far less than replacing the bearings alone. My spider arm broke approx. 9 months earlier, I did not know about the bearings going out shortly after, so if you are going to do this, replace the spider arm and bearings to make it worth your while. I have a GE model machine which is made by Frigidaire just like the Sears and many other models. I have always used Tide HE for my machine since it was new, have excellent quality city water, but I use fabric softener. Maybe the water and detergent doesn’t have anything to do with the spider arm failure, but maybe the softener does? Not sure, but love to have my washer back. I had my previous top loader GE for 15 years without one repair, I just decided to help out the environment and save some water, and this is what happens 5 years later. I should be set for another 5 years, I hope! This site has been a great help to me, Thanks, Steve
September 24th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Thanks for the help steve…
I am a bit lucky because The sears parts depot is close to my home.
I totally agree with you sentiment about feeling cheated for trying to be a bit more environamentally sensitive. However when were sold this item we are also told we could expect a lot better reliabilty because there is no transmission that will wear out.. I remember the first time I setup the machine and saw how everything was made out of plastic and thought wow that seems a little light duty…But those engineers know what they are doing
Kevin
September 25th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
THIS MACHINE IS A PIECE OF JUNK!
We bought our machine in August 2004.
I too took the machine apart and noted the rear spider on the drum was cracked in several places.
Went to Ottawa and managed to find a sears repair facility willing to sell me the entire wash tub assembly (plastic housing, drum, spider, bearing, pulley). Not sure why they require you to buy it all.
Cost me about $180 CDN. I also had to buy two new shocks as the previous ones were broken due to the faulty drum.
The machine has worked fine until now, almost two years later and its starting to make the same “familiar” thumping sounds.
Basically the company telling you that HE detergent is the cause is crap.
No way that you should have to use a low suds detergent to prevent the spider from cracking.
They are trying to pass the buck.
My advice would be to RUN from these Kenmore / Frigidare front loads. They are junk and will not last.
September 25th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
Forgot to mention it broke the first time in Summer of 2006. Now its broken the second time in summer of 2008.
Seems to last about 2 years before needing repairs.
October 2nd, 2008 at 3:42 am
Chris (from Ajax) wonder if you can comment on how the repair has held up so far?
Mine died just 4 years after purchase. I don’t think anything’s under warranty any more - and seems the spider arms on mine have died. The outer tub is cut through when the inner tub fell off its holding… so it’s leaking out the bottom.
If I order that part it would replace the outer tub plus the inner and arms? That seems to be what you said…
But now is it worth it for me to do it and most likely do it again in 4-5 years (3 kids…a lot of washing…) or should I just junk it and buy a top loader?
And if I do buy a new machine, does anyone want mine for parts?
October 2nd, 2008 at 4:13 am
thought I would give you guys an update. After 6 years and on my 2nd machine. With 14 repairs in the last 2 years. And with 2 previous promises from Sears to replace my machine (but nothing in writting)…SEARS has finally agreed to replace my machine. Why? Because they cannot stop the vibrations. They have replaced every part in the machine down to electrical boards. Still knocks horribly and has done damage to the machine on numerous occations. These machines were design to self destruck. I am not getting a front loader again and I am certainly not going to get my replacement from SEARS. Attorney General…BBB and my lawyers was not able to make this happen. Prayer was the only thing that worked. God bless you all
October 2nd, 2008 at 4:14 am
thought I would give you guys an update. After 6 years and on my 2nd machine. With 14 repairs in the last 2 years. And with 2 previous promises from Sears to replace my machine (but nothing in writting)…SEARS has finally agreed to replace my machine. Why? Because they cannot stop the vibrations. They have replaced every part in the machine down to electrical boards. Still knocks horribly and has done damage to the machine on numerous occations. These machines were design to self destruck. I am not getting a front loader again and I am certainly not going to get my replacement from SEARS. Attorney General…BBB and my lawyers was not able to make this happen. Prayer was the only thing that worked.
October 2nd, 2008 at 11:47 am
Kevin…our machine lasted almost 7 years before the spider arms broke but that was only with two of us doing maybe 3 loads per week on average. Now there’s three of us and we are doing a load at least every other day for the wee one but still not much use in my mind.
I will put the question back to you - can you buy a new top-load machine for $180? If not, then the repair is the way to go (if you aren’t paying for the labour and do it yourself). So far, this is the only “routine” problem that I have seen for these washers and the frame and motor appear to hold up fairly well. And it isn’t a complicated repair and you can find instructions with pictures on the web…took me about 3 hours, but I could probably do it in half that time now that I have done it.
If you do decide to buy a new one, my personal view is to avoid giving any money to Sears, but if you must, do not buy a Kenmore. They make a much higher profit on it because it is their house label, and you never know who made it or where. Stick with the name brand and then you can go back to the manufacturer if anything breaks down…
October 2nd, 2008 at 11:55 am
Tenessa…sorry, I had nothing to do with the repairs on your machine. I was busy helping the Steelers win their game on Monday, but I thank you for giving me the credit. Would love to chat some more, but there are so many things in the world that I must attend to - wars, famines, tidal waves, earthquakes, broken down refrigerators, etc. It never ends - maybe I’ll see if Allah or Buddha can help me out for a bit.
October 2nd, 2008 at 1:04 pm
Thanks Chris. I made a call to sears last night… the guy couldn’t even find my machine at first. It’s more than the money - it’s the 3-5 hrs of time which I don’t have with 3 kids running around.
Decided I’m buying a decent but basic top loader for $350 - so if you or anyone wants mine for parts - all circuit boards work fine - it’s just the tubs and drum that are busted - then come and take it. Frame, panel, everything else is fine.
And nope, not going back to Sears or Frigidaire. The way things are made these days they’re almost all “throw aways” Sigh… my 20 year old dryer has laster longer than the new washer!!!
October 2nd, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Just a note to all, Sears did replace my washer with the same model except it was Frigidaire. How I got them to replace it was to contact the attorney general of my state, and they put the pressure on. After the state A/G office contacted the Sears store where I bought it they contacted me right away and told me they had ordered me a new one. Don’t even discuss extended warranties. If your state is like mine we have an Implied Warranty. That is what I used against them. They are liable for the poor quality!
good luck all, of course my implied warranty is now good for another 4 years. To check out my law go to Maine state.org and consumer protection, implied warranty.
October 4th, 2008 at 5:59 am
I ALSO PURCHASED AN HE2 MODEL #11046462501 1 1/2 YEARS AGO, SERVICE MAN FROM SEARS CAME OUT FOR 75.00, I GOT AN ESTIMATE OF 935.00 TO REPAIR, WOULD INCLUDE REPLACING THE INNER DRUM AND OUTER PLASTIC DRUM, I CALLED SEARS AND COMPLAINED LIKE THEIR OWN SERVICE MAN TOLD ME TOO. NO HELP WHATSOEVER. I WAS TOLD I HAD A ONE YEAR WARRANTY ON ALL OF THE PARTS, THEIR GREAT CONCESSION WAS THEY WOULD GIVE ME A DISCOUNT OF 100.00 ON PARTS AND 150.00 DISCOUNT ON LABOR, I WAS TOLD THEY WERE TOTALLY UNAWARE OF ANY PROBLEMS WITH THIS UNIT. I WILL NEVER BUY FROM SEARS AGAIN. I DISSASEMBLED THE UNIT MYSELF, SPIDERS ARE BROKEN, BEARINGS ARE WORN OUT. SPIDERS ARE COMPLETELTY CORRODED IN HALF.THIS KIT I’VE BEEN READING ABOUT [26970134453200] WILL THIS FIT MY UNIT? ALSO ON SEARS PARTS WEBSITE THERE IS A PARTS BREAKDOWN OF THE PIECE THAT APPEARS TO BE THE SPIDER [PART# 8540457 CROSS PIECE ASSEMBLY THEY CALL IT, DOES ANYONE KNOW IF THE SPIDER AND SHAFT CAN BE PURCHASED SEPARTLY NOW? MY STAINLESS INNER BASKET SEEMS TO BE FINE, THE OUTER PLASTIC PIECE IS PRETTY CHEWD UP,AND DOES PART#280251 TUB OUTER INCLUDE BOTH HALVES TO THE PLASTIC TUB? ANY HELP WOULD BE APPRECIATED SINCERELY SCREWD IN OHIO.
October 4th, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Complete basket/drum/motor assembly falls out of machine!!! Anyone else have this problem aside from the spider assembly?
I was at Sears this morning, then called service for problems with our Kenmore front loader Mdl#417-41142000. They told me they were unaware of any problems. Just found this site. The two springs that suspend the plastic tub cut through the eyelets on the tub, the oneside completely through. The tub/motor assembly fell to the bottom of the machine denting out the side of the washer. We had a sears repairman out a while ago and he told us 1,500.00 for repair. Also said any damage to the motor or electronics or anything else would be my responsibility, materials,labor. He was persistant upon getting my credit card number to start repairs. When he said he couldn’t troubleshoot any electronic damage until we paid to have a whole new tub assembly installed, only then could they check to see if the controls or motor had been damaged. I asked about worse case senario to repair, he told me over 2,000.00. I conveyed that this model was purchased for 849.00, a little over 2 years ago and now is selling for 549.00 new. I asked if there was any rational in spending 1,000 to 2,000 dollars to fix a machine that you could buy new for $549.00. And why Sears would not just replace the machine not to waste my or his time. He persued my credit card to start repairs and I told him to get out of my house. I have been looking for problems with this model and just found all the complaints, I couldn’t find complaints these last 2 years. An honest sears sales person at one of the hardward stores told me to go to corporate for complete replacement. I called today and got the major run-a-round. Now I know why.
October 6th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Wow. This is sad. It seems like corporate rip offs are the norm now not the exception. Anything for the bottom line NOW and screw tomorrow. What greed.
Here is a site (there are probably others) where you can voice and opinion or find out if there are any recalls/ lawsuits and so on happening. It may not be all inclusive I don’t know.
Before this purchase of 4 major appliances from Sears I always went to Lowes or Factory Direct Appliance (perhaps a local store). I will return to them after research to be sure they haven’t fallen into the sinkhole that is corporate greed over quality as service.
Best wishes to you all and thank you for your support.
October 8th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Rob Says:
October 4th, 2008 at 10:39 pm Complete basket/drum/motor assembly falls out of machine!!! Anyone else have this problem aside from the spider assembly?
I was at Sears this morning, then called service for problems with our Kenmore front loader Mdl#417-41142000. They told me they were unaware of any problems. Just found this site. The two springs that suspend the plastic tub cut through the eyelets on the tub, the oneside completely through. The tub/motor assembly fell to the bottom of the machine denting out the side of the washer. We had a sears repairman out a while ago and he told us 1,500.00 for repair. Also said any damage to the motor or electronics or anything else would be my responsibility, materials,labor. He was persistant upon getting my credit card number to start repairs. When he said he couldn’t troubleshoot any electronic damage until we paid to have a whole new tub assembly installed, only then could they check to see if the controls or motor had been damaged. I asked about worse case senario to repair, he told me over 2,000.00. I conveyed that this model was purchased for 849.00, a little over 2 years ago and now is selling for 549.00 new. I asked if there was any rational in spending 1,000 to 2,000 dollars to fix a machine that you could buy new for $549.00. And why Sears would not just replace the machine not to waste my or his time. He persued my credit card to start repairs and I told him to get out of my house. I have been looking for problems with this model and just found all the complaints, I couldn’t find complaints these last 2 years. An honest sears sales person at one of the hardward stores told me to go to corporate for complete replacement. I called today and got the major run-a-round. Now I know why.
October 13th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
I bought my front load from Sears 2002, and have had the exact situation with the spider eroding in my hands. I called Sears on Sept the 5th to order the complete tub kit and have never received it, (although you can bet they charged me for it). After speaking to dozens of call center employees and corporate customer service, I called head office and left a message for the manager of customer service. She has never returned my call!!! I was told many would return my call, and never did. You are right : you get the complete run around” WHAT A RACKET! I asked them if they could possibly have the common sense to order another part, since they lost the first part. What are the chances?? (they lost the second order for the part). I have been more than patient, and finally said the hell with this, asked for my money back and purchased a new LG washer from Home depot. I will NEVER, EVER, buy another item from Sears Canada. Their customer service is terrible, and that is quite an under statement, the ycouldn’t care less about the consumer. I have read several complaints on Sears, and could spend many more hours doing so. I would encourage not buying from Sears, especially major appliances. I would not want anyone to go through the inconveniences that we have gone through the last 6 weeks. I have spent many hours on the phone, as well as, many hours at the laundry mat. SEARS has definately put a BAD TASTE in my mouth.
October 25th, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Same exact thing…took washer apart today…two spider arms broken. Hard as hell to get freakin shaft/SS tub out of rear shell.
Total piece of &^$#.
October 28th, 2008 at 4:01 am
fully bought mine in 2002 also and rear bearing is bad, and cant just buy the bearing but need whole rear shell assembly with bearing in it for 170. plus shipping and tear whole machine apart, but guess worked for 6yrs. so what do you do buy another one?
October 28th, 2008 at 11:40 am
Best thing to do unfortunately is buy another one. I had to do so, however, definately not from Sears! My ordeal has been going on since Sept5th with Sears. I ordered the same part twice that I have never received and now I have been waiting 3 weeks for a crredit on my visa………….I guess I will have to fight another 2 months to get my money back! What a complete nightmare. I had to purchase a new washer. I purchased an LG front load after alot of research from Homedepot.
I cross my fingers that this one lasts me more than 6 years.
October 29th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
Unfortunately we have just experienced the same problem. We bought our Kenmore front loader washing machine and dryer in August 2005 and now the washing machine is DOA. Just recently the washer made a deafening noise and we found the drum was completely loose inside. We called Sears and they sent a repairman who cost $80.00 just to show up. He simply wiggled the drum and told us that the spider arm was broken and that it would cost approximately $500 (with taxes) to fix. He said that because we didn’t use the low sud detergent, that it broke. The original salesman clearly said we could use regular detergent, but only use half as much. He did not warn us of any danger nor was there anything in the manual about the risks of using regular liquid detergent. So now I have to throw it in the garbage after only three years. I am simply flabbergasted at the whole ordeal. My only defense is to tell as many people as I can.
bout the kenmore front loader and . We bought ours August 2005
October 30th, 2008 at 3:51 am
David I am soo sorry you have to go through this these machines are soo expensive….The best thing you can do is file a complaint through your attorney generals office. SEars knows this is a common problem and is not being forced to do anything about it.
tenessa
October 31st, 2008 at 4:50 pm
HEY STEVE, I BUY THE TWO BEARINGS AND THE OIL SEAL RETAINER FOR LESS OF $45.00, YOU CAN BUY IT, NOT AT SEARS
November 1st, 2008 at 4:00 pm
If you take the route of making the repair, which is moderately difficult, you can return your machine to better than original condition. Like others, I did get the new inner tub assembly (which is the stainless steel tub and the aluminum casting/spindle assembly) under warranty (it is stainless steel and is why it’s warranted so long. Clearly, they never thought the soap etc. in the wash tub would completely eat the aluminum casting holding the stainless-steel tub and the spindle together.)
First, the new casting that bolts to the drum and is cast onto the spindle, does not have all the nooks and crannies as the original.
Also, it is super important to paint the casting prior to installing the whole assembly. Yes, that is another step in the process, but if you’re going to the trouble of replacing the parts, do it right. You will need to take the two bolts per arm off (six total [three arms]) and apply some prying force to get it free from the lip. But, once done, you can paint all surfaces of the casting, a key point.
I decided to use POR-15 for the paint. It is specifically a marine-quality paint. You can use rustoleum as another poster suggested, but POR 15 is a better solution, though probably 10x more expensive; but you get what you pay for and I did not want to go through this again.
I also had to replace the front half of the plastic tub. So, if you hear thumping and see even any plastic in the tub, you should not run it any more as I did.
November 3rd, 2008 at 2:00 am
TAKE ACTION AND BE HEARD!!! The following is an article from the consumer rights advocate for the Toronto Star newspaper from Saturday Nov 1…send your personal stories to Ellen Roseman (eroseman@thestar.ca)
——————————————————————
Appliance repairs give nasty shock
What could be worse than having your home refrigerator break down and having to wait several weeks for repairs?
When Chris Mak needed a new circuit board for his two-year-old GE Profile refrigerator, he was told the part was out of stock and had to be ordered. So, he took matters into his own hands.
“With two young kids at home and on a Thanksgiving weekend, we could not afford to continue without a fridge,” he says. “I managed to find a part here in Toronto the next day, an original GE part that cost $196.33. It took me 10 minutes to remove the old motherboard and install a new one.”
But Mak ran into a roadblock with Mabe Canada, which manufactures GE appliances after buying Camco Inc. in 2005.
It would cover the cost of the part only if it was installed by an authorized GE technician.
He asked On Your Side to help. Two weeks after his fridge broke down, Mabe still didn’t have the part in stock.
“Imagine if I didn’t source it myself. I would still be waiting without a fridge and two very unhappy kids.”
Mak had already won a victory with Direct Energy, the authorized service provider for GE appliances.
He didn’t want to pay $90 for Direct Energy’s initial service call – since the fridge was not repaired – and he won a refund.
I got in touch with Mabe’s customer service, based in Moncton, N.B., and heard back from Daniel Dufour, general manager of operations.
“We will be refunding the cost of the part to Mr. Mak,” he said.
“Unfortunately, our employee did not refer the file to a manager and strictly followed policy.”
Cyd Deming asked On Your Side to help with a dispute about repairs to her three-year-old Maytag Neptune front-load washing machine.
The washer did not drain properly, causing water to spill onto the computer board and create a short circuit – along with mould, mildew and odours.
Sears sent out a technician, who said a new circuit board would cost at least $500. She should save the money and put it toward a new washing machine.
Whirlpool Canada would not cover repairs – despite having compensated other Canadian and U.S. owners of Maytag Neptune front-loading washers for costs incurred before 2004 as part of a successful class-action lawsuit.
“Both Maytag and Sears are fully aware of this problem, but both firms deny accountability. They say, `Well, you used it for three years.’ When you purchase a $1,595 washing machine, a top-of-the-line product, you expect it to last 10, 20, maybe 30 years like my mom’s – not three years.”
I asked both companies to help. This week, Whirlpool called Deming to say it would review her documents and decide whether to provide reimbursement. “The item should never have been on Sears’ showroom floor for sale in the first place,” Deming insists.
Because of the mould caked inside the washer, she has moved it into her garage.
Vincent Power, a spokesman for Sears Canada, said he wanted to investigate further to see how customers could fall between the cracks. “It must feel terrible to be caught between two reputable companies, both saying it’s the other’s responsibility.”
I’d like to hear from readers. Did you have trouble getting quality issues addressed after the first year? And do you think it’s right for manufacturers to offer only a one-year warranty on major appliances and consumer electronics?
Ellen Roseman’s column appears Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday. You can reach her at eroseman@thestar.ca.
November 3rd, 2008 at 2:34 am
Thanks for the post Chris. I have sent her my “story” about the washer. Mine is now disposed of and recycled (the town of Markham charges $10 for a pickup of major appliances to be recycled - cheaper than a store taking it).
As for my new appliance, happily using a new Whirlpool bought from Future Shop. Hoping this lasts 50 years to make up for the 4 on the last one!
November 9th, 2008 at 7:49 am
This site and its posts have been very informative. Now, at least I don’t just feel “unlucky” with my suddenly noisy Kenmore. I also feel duped.
Gonna try the bearings first.
November 18th, 2008 at 4:31 am
I have the same type problem. During hi-speed spin it makes a loud knocking noise. I do notice that when I take the back off the washer and slowly turn the tub that it makes a knocking type noise at the same point of each rotation. I’m not sure if it could be a bearing or perhaps a shaft issue. LP
November 18th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
I THINK IS THE BEARING
November 18th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
LP: I THINK IS THE BEARING, CHANGE THE BEARINGS AND THE OIL SEAL
November 19th, 2008 at 11:11 pm
I must say that the majority of people posting about these products have not read their manuals. Having repaired these machines in the past i can absolutely, positively, say that there are three factors that contribute to the demise of the spider/bearing. When these break it is typically because you are using the wrong type of soap. Regular soap is made much more concentrated because it is meant for use with a machine that uses alot of water. HE detergent is much less costic and breaks down better in your machine. If you do not have an automatic temperature control equipped with your machine, and you use cold water, the cold water will not break down the soap, thus resulting in a build-up of detergent along the spider assembly/bearing. The ATC brings the water up to 72 degrees so that the soap will dissolve, if not it’s like washing your dishes with cold water, doesnt work. Thirdly, you are probably using TOO MUCH soap. Soap companies are in the business to sell soap, not help preserve your machine, so cut your usage in Half. If you abide by these three rules your machine should last ten years. Appliances now are not rated to last any longer than that, and as with cars or anything else, the cheaper you pay the cheaper quality you get.
Now according to that video, the guy blames the scoring on the front shell to the screws that hold the vanes inside the stainless steel drum. They do not make contact with the shell at any point, unless, the bearing or spider assembly dissentegrate, thus not providing a proper seal where the two drums connect to one another and they start bouncing around. The moment you hear it start to clunk, get yourself a new drum or else you will only do more damage to your machine.
This does not apply to just one set of front load washers, All front load washers of all makes and models work the same way and when not used to spec, will end up failing in the same manor.
November 20th, 2008 at 1:19 am
Haven’t read our manuals!!!!!!! I believe in 2002 we had never heard of HE soap. Obviously the sales people in so many of these cases had not either, otherwise, it would have been mentioned to their customers.
In regards to too much soap, I would have to disagree. With my frontload I used less than half, because if you happened to use more, your clothes would not rinse properly due to way too many suds. You obviously don’t own a front load. You sound as though you are a service technician rather than a consumer of this product.
November 20th, 2008 at 3:20 am
DITTO!!! Manuals of 2002 stated that you could use less than the normal deterant OR HE detergent…But again most did not know what that was. The sales pitch I got was that it would save me on detergent. When Technicians tried to give me that Bull about using HE i showed my manual to the technicians each time they came out…I made them out to be liers. They were shocked that they had always been told that IT was our Fault….I said OH NO…We were sold on the idea that we would use much less of the normal detergent and since at that Time you did not even see HE detergent on the shelves you were all about buying your favorite detergent and saving on using less. Of course we were all forced to change as this story of how the detergent ruined the machine was put on the consumer….The truth is they did not know that the detergent ruined the machine till at least 2003. And when they did realize it they changed the manuals and started to blame the consumer for improper use.
November 20th, 2008 at 4:38 am
We’d always used HE detergent from day one, and as another commenter pointed out, using anything like the “recommended amount” prevented a decent rinse. That said, I’ve had to replace the bearings and seal in mine after about 6 years. The spider was in pretty decent shape, with very minor pitting. It was caked with undissolved powder detergent however, which we did use before finding a source for liquid HE detergent.
Maybe - under ideal conditions (and less than average use) the seals and bearings would hold up for ten years, but we were inadvertently astonishingly careful, and still experienced what I would consider a premature failure. I can only attribute this to a either a cheap seal or poorly manufactured bearings, or both.
I can’t explain why the spider on mine was in decent shape and why others of very similar vintages were completed rotted away. I strongly suspect alkaline water, which will tend to corrode aluminum faster than acidic water, if I recall chemistry anything like correctly.
The abundance of failures seen here would appear to indicate a more systemic problem involving galvanic corrosion between the stainless steel drum and the cast aluminum spider, made worse with certain water conditions. Is it possible that the use of non-HE detergent exacerbated these conditions? Sure. But it’s listed as “safe for use” in my machine, provided that reduced amounts are used, and that’s what’s gotten people here sore.
Herb.
November 24th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Wow the video is great. I can assess from looking at the back side of my now dented ss tub that my spider assembly has disintegrated. Since my GE WSXH208V0WW is >10 yrs old I guess I’ll toss it and get something new. Any suggestions?
November 25th, 2008 at 3:54 am
What a sinking feeling when I found this web page as I was hoping for something much simpler. But yup, I’ve since installed a new tub assembly and just opened up the old tub assembly to find the spider broken in two places. Thanks for all your posting since with this info, I found no surprises when ordering the new parts and the detailed instructions at
http://www.applianceaid.com/417_Frigidaire_washer.html
were invaluable. I probably would have fussed for hours getting the door gasket off! It still took me until 2 am (5 hours) to repair. Now for my own discoveries to share…
Backing up to last Saturday, I called Sears service Saturday morning and sure enough, they had the replacement drum and spider in stock for $199. I called back to learn about their refund policy just in case I backed out of the repair. This time a women answered and she suggested I purchase instead the full tub assembly which included the bearings. I was rather skeptic she was talking about the same thing since it was cheaper - $152! When do you get more for less? So I reserved both parts and then when I visited the parts centre an hour later, they confirmed that in deed the $152 purchase gave me more and would make for an easier repair. Nearest I can figure is that it’s a bigger mover and therefore cheaper to stock. As it turns out, my bearings are just fine but boy, was I glad to have the whole assembly. By the way, the Cambridge/Kitchener (Ontario) parts service counter have great people working there.
I was advised by the service centre to have a friend over to help since the tub assembly is heavy. The above instructions failed to warn you that the tub has a huge casing of cement attached to the front end which can not be separated until after the tub is removed. Therefore, after removing the suspension springs, the tub is sitting on wood blocks and can be a real bear to move - unless you apply a little engineering. What I did was instead of setting the tub down on wood blocks, I built two wood rails that ran through the washer from front to back and extended about 2 or 3 feet out the back. Then with the weight of the cement blocks sitting on the rails, I could simply slide the tub assembly out the rear end - no lifting required.
Once out, the tub assembly was tilted up on it’s end. I removed the bolts, and then slid the tub off the cement weights. This did require a bit of help and my wife managed quite well with the lifting as I carefully pried the cement away from the tub, careful not to crack it anywhere. The new tub assembly then just slide back on top and re-assembly began.
Inspecting the new tub, I couldn’t find the studs that protrude out of the steel drum so I guess they fixed that mistake. I was tempted to open the new assembly to see if they did anything about the aluminum against the Stainless Steel but didn’t want to jeopardize my repair. I still intend to investigate this galvanic problem and see if I can come up with a sacrificial anode like zinc as done for boats.
As for Jason’s comments about the HE soap, well, they are his and he can have his say. I think we can see through them. Our machine was purchased in Feb. 2004 and right from the start we used Kenmore brand HE powder soap, recommended by the sales people for the front loader. Furthermore, only 1/2 the recommended amount was used per load. I believe the soap had very little to do with it and the Aluminum and stainless steel thing explains it all.
Next I’ll send my story to Ellen Roseman (eroseman@thestar.ca). Then some letter writing to Sears and see what happens. In these economic times, I expect nothing!
For the record….
Model: 970-C42162-00
Purchase Date: February 2004
Failure Date: Nov. 14, 2008
Tub Assembly replaced: Nov. 17, 2008 ($152 plus taxes).
November 27th, 2008 at 3:44 am
Just a thank you for all of the information regarding the repair. I performed the bearing replacement rather than the entire tub as the tub arm assembly looked almost new. A local bearing shop was able to provide higher quality replacements and a seal. Compared to the tub removal, the actual bearing replacement was relatively easy using a drift to remove the old bearings and a block of wood and mallet to install the new bearings. Although the tub o-ring looked fine, I also replaced it rather than chance a leak. Finally, I found a crack in one of the shock absorber eyes and replaced both shocks — the replacements come in twos and appear to be of an improved design with a metal support where the original was of plastic or perhaps nylon. My cost for parts was about $100 and a couple of evenings. Nice to have a quiet smoothly running machine again.
November 28th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
The link provided here shows the rear view of the inner tub after removal from the outer tub. I tried to figure out a way to repair the spider part where it broke apart. There is significant corrosion of the spider due to residual powdered detergent that accumulated between the spider and the tub as shown. Was unable the repair. I am now looking for a replacement spider, that’s the only thing I need. Wish me luck. http://s374.photobucket.com/albums/oo181/rhino44_photo/
November 28th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
HEY PHIL WHERE YOU BUY THE BEARINGS AND THE SEAL? THANKS
November 29th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
I found this discussion the afternoon after purchasing a Kenmore front loading pair (model 48112 washer) for a Black Friday price of $600 for the pair. I knew going in that this washer had a 50/50 rating-two and a half stars-and I won’t say I was not apprehensive about our purchase. But the price got me and since there are just 2 of us doing an average of 2.5 loads a week, I figured it was a fair gamble.
I have not taken delivery of these units yet so do not have the complete model number to look if I have a Frigidaire manufactured unit, but the salesperson said it was.
I have read all these comments and watched the video. I explained the details to my Handy Hubby and he watched the video, too. (He had recently replaced the pump in my 9 year old Whirlpool top loader and cleaned it up well and I expected another 4-5 years out of it–oh well… Luckily we have room to store it–not get rid of it, just in case???)
We discussed some preventative care to the washer before we install it (ourselves). But before tearing apart a brand new unit, Handy Hubby had another idea: What about installing sacrificial anodes in the stainless steel tub? Does a sacrificial anode not work if it is not touching the endangered metal directly, in this case the spider bracket? Can you add too much aluminum alloy sacrificial anode(s)? His experience with sacrificial anodes was to protect the lower units of boat motors.
Is there a screw from the inside of the stainless steel tub to each arm of the spider bracket to provide an anode-to-metal pathway?
Salts must be the main culprit. You think there is any connection between the speed at which the aluminum bracket corrodes with owners having water softeners? Is HE detergent lower in salts than regular? Is there something I can use that is even lower in salts than HE detergent? Some questions I am pondering…
November 29th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
Nancy, you mean to tell me you bought one even after knowing it was a dud to begin with? Sounds like the true meaning of insanity - knowing the eventual outcome and repeating history, hoping for a different outcome. Good luck. Maybe when it does eventually break the compnay will rebate you a fair amount. Good luck with that also.
Anodes might do the trick, but why risk good dollars and time and effort. You will need to replace the zinc anodes - so put them in an area where you can replace easily.
BTW I had a hard water bias - not soften and my machine did not last more that 3 years on light use - 3 loads per week tops. On inspection of the arms after the failure, there were little signs of deep corrosion, more like stress fractures from defective forging.
November 30th, 2008 at 12:45 am
LEO: I purchased the bearings and seal at Bearing, Belt, and Chain in Tucson 520-792-1231. The bearings were an easy match, the seal, however, required shipment. But, the folks at the store handled everything. Be sure you get a high quality seal. Best of luck.
December 4th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Has anyone had an issue with the bleach dispenser not releasing the bleach on these machines? Also, my whites just don’t seem to get clean. We have the Kenmore HE4T. No problems yet other than these two items, but I sure am glad I read this as I will know what is going on when (not if) it fails. Thanks so much for everyone’s input!!
December 5th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
Hello All:
Jim:
You said, “By the way, those screws on the fins are not even necessary. The fins have tabs that slide in and forward. They are locked into place by bending a tab in the drum. I was a little worried about how they’d hold but after 20 loads of laundry I’m convinced they’re unnecessary.”
Have those “Fins” managed to stay attached since removing the offending screws or did you find it necessary to replace the screws since your entry last June?
I still await the Spider and Bearing failure on my nearly 8 year old Frigidaire Model FWTB69RGSO.
However, it is interesting to note these Frigidaire/Kenmore tub/bearing failure problems are so numerous. Recently, I was walking through my neighborhood and noticed a Front Load Kenmore, 417.4304220, waiting to be picked-up by the trash collector. Being curious about why a machine that was manufactured in August, 2003, (according to the serial tag), was already destined for the scrap heap, I reached into the open tub door and tried rotating the inner stainless steel wash tub/basket. Sure enough, the stainless steel inner tub had broken free of the Spider Support and was scraping on the plastic outer tub. I questioned the owner about the machine’s short life span and was told the machine had not been installed until sometime in 2005!
I stripped the machine of all good parts, but expect to be replacing bearings and tub components on my machine before any of these salvaged parts are required for service needs.
Sears, U.S., does not acknowledge the existence of a replacement tub assembly, part# 134453200, available through Sears, Canada Item: 26 970134453200. Unfortunately, Sears, Canada will not ship to the U.S.. Price for the complete tub assembly, part# 134453200, is nearly $500.00 in the U.S.
December 8th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
David,
Nice score with the used washer. I have done same and have help friends in similar situations with good used parts from discarded washers! Unfortunately people are being used and scammed in these circumstances. Everyone here should send a link to this site: http://www.appliancejournal.com/appliance-repair-help/washer-repair/why-kenmore-front-load-washers-fail-271/ , to your local consumer protection programming at TV news stations, electronic letters to the editors local newspapers, local government and state AG Consumer Divisions and other media/information outlets which might pick up the story, along with a short email explaining your circumstance! Maybe Santa can intervene and fix the made in India, designed to fail faulty front load washer spider bracket crisis, still being sold today? Happy Holidays
December 8th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
James Joyce:
I recorded the Model & Serial Number on the discarded unit
As you suggest, and for the benefit of future buyers of this model, I will be reporting the “trashed” machine to the recommended agencies and organizations.
Dose anyone know…When the Rear Tub Shell and Bearing Assembly (Part# 131525500) is ordered through Sears, U.S., will Sears U.S. automatically ship the Complete Tub Assembly, (Part# 134453200), instead of only the Rear Tub Shell and Bearing Assembly (Part# 131525500)? From the comments on this site, it appears Sears Canada is sending complete tub assemblies, only. Just wanted to know if the same applies to Sears U.S.
Sears Parts Direct service representatives are not aware if a complete tub assembly is automatically substituted and shipped when a customer only orders the rear tub and bearing assembly, part# 131525500. Please let us know what you have actually received if you have ordered the Rear Tub Shell and Bearing Assembly (Part# 131525500) from Sears, U.S.
Thank you to everyone for taking the time to document and share their Frigidaire/Kenmore Front-Load Clothes Washer tub/bearing related failures on this site and exposing this outrageous, known problem, which can only be corrected by redesigning the tub support and bearing assembly.
December 9th, 2008 at 4:14 am
Following this thread with interest as our 7 year old machine just imploded for all of the reasons described here. Corroded spider arm broke off and took out a huge chunk of the rear tub with it. Dramatic.
Sears Parts and Service Canada has over 200 full tub assemblies in stock across the country with **over 300 on order**. The service guy on the phone actually sounded surprised when he read that to me off of his screen. If that doesn’t speak to a known issue/planned obsolescence, I don’t know what does. Interestingly, the price appears to have jumped in the last month, and now sits at $229 CAD. Still going to proceed with a tub replacement since we have been otherwise happy with this machine, have a matching dryer that works great, and they are a nice stacking set in our small house. Very useful information here - thanks for all of the posts. Brian. Oakville, Canada.
December 11th, 2008 at 3:00 am
Follow up on previous post. Part obtained over the counter (~$250 after tax) in Toronto and 2.5 hours later, back to normal. Really a very simple DIY, other than the quite heavy front counterweight that could cause some serious damage if you weren’t prepared for it.
December 11th, 2008 at 6:05 am
Brian B:
You made fast work of that tub replacement. Current Canadian pricing on the complete tub assembly at pre-tax $229 makes the repair a bit more tolerable. Unfortunately, Sears U.S. charges almost twice as much for the same part# 134453200!
December 11th, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Won’t take full credit for the quick work. My wife and I did it together, and for anyone considering this job as a DIY, I would definitely recommend that two people handle the tub removal and installation. It is not technically difficult, but the tub is very heavy and awkward. If the tub had been priced as it is in the US, I would not have considered the repair - just wouldn’t have been worth it!
December 11th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
I brought a Kenmore Washer & Dryer (do not remember the model) still under manufactures warranty. The first issue was water in the pedestal drawer. Call service, missed day of work and none one showed up. When you place a service call they take two phone numbers and they don’t use one to call & say they will not be there. Called again, missed work again, service man could not determine why water was in pedestal drawer. One day after service call I did laundry and washer stalled and loud hum, tried turning off and restarting same thing, unplugged it and tried again and it worked. Called service, same scenario, no show, missed work, called again (still using washer in the interim). Now I have water in pedestal drawer and washer stalling with loud hum and awaiting service. I used to be a loyal Sears appliance customer, loved their appliances, this new front loader has changed my opinion of Kenmore and Sears service department. Remember I”m still under the one year warranty which will expire Dec. 20, 2008. I did get the two year warranty because this is my first front loader. Had top loaders for years, no problem, go to this new model and all hell breaks out. Their service department is a joke. Call to complain and get transferred 15 times and just get more frustrated. Wish I could get my money back and go somewhere else. How can they continue to get away with this? People complain and nothing happens.
December 11th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Brian B:
How difficult was the transfer of the Door Gasket from the old to new tub? I have heard horror stories about replacing/attaching the gasket retainer spring to the new tub assembly, and the water fill tube attached at the 10 o’clock position on the door gasket. Some have recommended using split, 1″ length pieces of rubber brake line tubing to hold the spring in position during installation, similar to what is provided with the “New Door Gasket Replacement Kit.”
Also, plastic wire ties have been recommended in place of the original wire clamp used to attach the water fill tube to the gasket. Again, let us know of your experience transfering the door gasket to the fill tube, as well as to the tub.
Alicia:
If you could provide us with the Model Number of your Kenmore Washer, it would help to identify if this is a Frigidaire or other manufacturer’s product. Even the first 3 digits will help to identify the manufacturer…ie: 417=Frigidaire, 110=Whirlpool, etc.
December 11th, 2008 at 5:54 pm
model# 417-48102701
December 12th, 2008 at 1:34 am
Hi David,
I think that there may be variants on the gasket and the retainer spring, but it really was no problem. There is an alignment mark on the door and the gasket to ensure that the water fill tube is lined up. The actual gasket slips over the rim without too much trouble - much easier with two pairs of hands to hold in place and work around the free edge.
Our retainer spring was in good condition. Reattaching the gasket to the fill tube is a bit of a squeeze, but we managed to even reuse the original spring (compress with one small pair of pliers and then give a locking twist with a second pair!). This is where the cable tie solution has been suggested elsewhere and I can see where this would be an advantage - there is definitely a risk of puncturing the gasket if you aren’t careful.
December 12th, 2008 at 3:19 am
Correction to previous post. I meant to write that there is are alignment marks on the front face panel of the washer and the gasket to ensure that the fill tube is lined up, not on the door.
December 12th, 2008 at 5:59 am
Wow, surprised to see all the issues with the washer. Mine is a Frigidaire built Kenmore C29042 purchased in 99. I believe it is very similar or identical to the models described here. No bearings or spider assembly problems. Knocking on wood.. I have been very happy with the washer and stacking dryer as a unit. Have always used liquid detergent (regular non-HE) with the unit, but in lower amounts. Have soft water here, so I wonder if that helps?
I have encountered a problem with the water drain pump however. It stalled after a extremely muddy load of clothes. Took it apart and cleaned it out, removed impeller, found it gunky, and rinsed it all out. Seemed to work well at first, but it is now squealing. Anyone have a spare they want to send? Vancouver, BC.
December 12th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
I want to thank ‘hethere’ for the very useful comments. How precious you are to contribute them.
Ratings (on the Sears site) varied widely and many due to specific dislikes of how something worked for them, not machine breakdowns. Like “I don’t like how the door opens from right to left because my hoses are on the right of the dryer and had to be installed that way and it is an inconvenience for me.” ===1 star. DUH! You knew that when you bought it, right? Well maybe not…So I took some of the complaint ratio into consideration for those reasons, as well as others.
Note that here on this forum there is a wide variance in time that it takes for this bracket to fail. 2 years—7 years ??? There has to be other factors involved with the corrosion of the spider bracket. Detergents or salts in water…??
So…no ideas in the preventative department except the person way back who was going to paint his new bracket with anti-rust paint???
The chances to lengthen the life of this bracket right now when it is new would be desirable, don’t you think?
December 12th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Nancy:
I agree with your last comment. The only issue is that when the entire tub assembly is purchased as a replacement part, the bearings, hub, tub and housing are pre-assembled. Disassembling to paint the spider or some other preventative means opening the outer tub, pulling out the drum and disengaging the axle from the bearings, which based on my efforts to have a look at the old one, is not simple or easy. I opted to not mess with the new one, in fear of wrecking a factory assembled bearing. Moreover, the solution to paint the aluminum spider only works if you completely disassemble the thing and eliminate the steel-aluminum contact to prevent galvanic corrosion. Anyway, we can only hope to get another 7 years from this one - the replacement parts apparently have some structural improvements that will extend their lives (hopefully!).
December 14th, 2008 at 2:24 am
And to think this Frigidaire/Kenmore Front-Loader has also been installed in Laundromats, masquerading as a Commercial Duty Wascomat, Models: WE16 and WE17.
See current Wascomat Model: WE17,
Link: http://www.wascomat.net/docs/sect02/coin_cwetd16.jsp
I have a local laundromat using the Frigidaire/Wascomat Model: WE16 or WE17. If available for comment, I’ll ask the business owners/operators if they have replaced many bearings and tubs on these units. These machines have probably been in use for about 2-3 years. Will be interesting to learn how they hold up under brutal, public use, especially that plastic front door frame assembly.
Lowe’s also sells a coin operated, commercial duty version of the Frigidaire Front-Loader.
December 21st, 2008 at 7:58 pm
December 21st, 2008 at 7:59 pm
I have made a similar video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoIMCVi1m9k
December 22nd, 2008 at 5:15 am
Nice video Graham. Precisely same situation here. Replacement part obtained from Sears for my Kenmore is indeed a Fridgidaire part and precisely like yours. $250 CAD. Still a bitter pill, but easier to swallow than $400+.
December 22nd, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Price has gone up at Sears parts depot in Winnipeg, too. The tub kit is now $229.99 plus tax ($256.50). I called Bain’s appliance ($200 + taxes) and Reliable Parts ($199.80 + taxes).
Bain’s told me that if I am the original owner of the washing machine (I am) that the tub is under warranty, as long as an authorized technician does the work. I inquired as to the labour cost and was told around $300 to $350 AND that they would require replacement of the bearings as well.
December 22nd, 2008 at 5:35 pm
Finally had my long over due service call. The problem was something very simple the serviceman was there 10 minutes. Told him about the loud noise and water in the pedestal drawer, he immediately went to the water pump and there was an under wire (from a bra) in there. He said that will happen again, because when those things come out of the bras they go through the holes in the washer. I do use laundry bags for the under garments, one must have worn open. But all in all, getting service from Sears is a trip. This will be my last large appliance from them.
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:39 pm
David,
The fins have stayed in place just fine. I recently got a leak that was coming out of the washer and onto the tile (the guys that were supposed to slope the floor toward the drain didn’t do it). It wasn’t enough to worry about and so I’d figured to try one more load.
The repair was an easy $30 part called the “hose and coin trap.” You should all see the tiny little hole less that 1/8 inch. I could’ve even tried a bicycle tire repair on it. After I’d given up on one of the metal clamps and used a plastic tie. And I only had to take off the front bottom panel.
I did another load to check for leaks and it was fine but y’all should see how much the hose shakes around and moves a lot because the whole tub does. I still can’t believe it’s held up by those metal springs and shock absorbers.
It’s sure nice to be able to spend $30 instead of $75 plus $30 plus labor though.
December 22nd, 2008 at 11:43 pm
Jim:
Interesting that you had a problem with the “hose and coin trap.” because when I stripped that scrapped Kenmore unit of many good parts, I debated if I should bother to remove the hose and coin trap. After hearing of your coin trap hose leak, now I am glad I took the extra few minutes to remove the part along with the air hose leading to the fill level pressure switch.
About all the movement in the hose/coin trap…I had a brand new (bolted to the floor) Dexter Commercial Front Loader (Model WCY2) that leaked through the drain pump’s rear seal, upon installation, due to bad motor bearings, so when I first installed my Frigidaire washer (when new) I removed the lower front panel for the first few wash loads to watch for any leaks and I, too, noticed much shaking and movement of the “hose and coin trap,” and thought it was just a matter of time before that accordion style hose began to leak.
As for bearing/tub life expectancy, my Dexter Front Loader’s rear bearing failed at 16 years old with daily use; 3 years later the drive shaft broke away from the rear of the rotating porcelain wash basket/cylinder. No spider assembly used on the Dexter, only a porcelain, reinforced tub back plate with the drive shaft screwed directly into threads of the tub. The cost of the Dexter replacement tub made the decision easy to buy a replacement machine. And Frigidaire was ideal for home use with no bolting to the floor.
Unfortunately, Frigidaire’s premature tub and bearing failure are costly weak points on this machine. Electrolux/Frigidaire should make the right decision and cover tub/bearing failures under an extended warranty program.
And about that leak…I think you are correct that a tire patch would probably do the trick, at least temporarily.
Thanks for the follow-up about the fin screws…I may remove those screws in the near future.
December 26th, 2008 at 10:08 am
Graham Hardie:
Thank you for documenting, (on youtube), your experience with the Frigidaire Front-Loading Clothes Washer’s Stainless Steel Tub and Spider Assembly.
Should you have further contact with the Frigidaire call center, please keep us posted on their response and any actions/updates on your complaint.
December 27th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
hi, I don’t even know if my comment belongs in this thread, but here goes. I own a Kenmore front load Quietpak4 H3T, purchased in December 2005. Have had no problems until 5 days ago when I heard such a racket and vibration during spin cycle..thought some was trying to force their way into home! Make long story short,, it was the washer. After investigating, found debry under the grey rubber seal(bellow) between the door and the drum. Thought it might be calcium deposit. Tried to finish wash, more noise. At end of was, found more fibrous residue. And amazement, whole drum seal falling apart. Called Sears (thank God I have masterplan coverage). They confirmed whole drum and seal breaking down. Needs a whole front and rear (whatever that is). Cost about $1,000. Asked why they would not replace with new one since I am covered. Technician said they have a cut off price of $1,800 before they do that..anyway, what on earth would make a machine like this break down like that?? I only use liquid HE detergent….
I am going to sound unpatriotic, but sometimes I wish I could afford the German brands that last forever..
oh well, a Christmas with loads waiting…
December 28th, 2008 at 4:05 am
Pat, I am sorry to inform you that I had to fight Sears for several years, with over $5,000 in repairs before they would consider replacement.It was not until I got a lawyer to send them a letter did they replace my machine. Even though I met their criteria for replacment. I had the same problems as you are desribing several times. They make these machines to only last about 5 years….they design them this way. I wish someone had told me this when I bought mine. I even had my local news out to my house. They did a story becuase they were shocked to see all the repairs. But when they contacted Sears they would no longer run the story. I think they were paid off. What news station would not run this story with the cost of repairs to be soooo high. Good luck
December 28th, 2008 at 4:40 am
Pat:
If you buy a German Brand, make sure it is a Miele, as they are known for quality and customer service.
On the other hand, Bosch full size washer models are built in New Bern, North Carolina, but my personal experience indicates that Bosch is worse than Frigidaire when it comes to overall performance; electronics failures, phantom error codes that stop the washing process and excessive vibration during spin, etc.
At least the Frigidaire and Kenmore performs well until the tub bearing and spider fails. If or when Frigidaire corrects this design flaw, the Frigidaire/Kenmore will be a very solid, reliable product.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:02 am
I called Frigidiaire to give them a final chance. I contacted the Electrolux office in Mississauga and pressed extensions until I got a live employee. I requested a P.R. person contact me and explained the on-going troubles I was having. They were very sympathetic and said they would take my information and make certain the right person called me back.
I received a call the a same day form the Customer Service manger. After explaining my concerns with the engineering they offered a 50% rebate for a new unit. I purchased a new Frigidaire on sale at Leons. In the end the cost will be over $300.00 to me but I will have fresh unit. It may last 3 years of 7 years. I asked what the life expectancy is for these units and she said 10 years.
Ultimately my hope would be that these companies make products that will stay out of the landfill and keep our planet greener. The savings in energy consumption are not offset by the waste of plastics, electronics and the energy to produce, ship and manufacture disposable machines.
December 28th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Graham Hardie:
I am glad you finally spoke to a Frigidaire Customer Service Manager who was able to make a decision to offer you a discounted replacement machine.
I was a Regional Service Manager for one of the other World known brands (manufacturer who shall remain nameless) and, frankly, I don’t understand how both Frigidaire and Sears have been able to avoid and turn their backs on this obvious problem for so long a period of time; especially when considering that dealers usually hear and learn of these problems directly from their irate customers. Some dealers will stop selling product if the manufacturer does not respond to problems in a responsible, timely manner.
I can guarantee you that our factory sales representatives would have been thrown out of the dealer’s office and the dealer’s sales people would promise not to sell our products if our service department ignored problems and customers like Frigidaire and Sears.
Regarding the Green factor…Thank you for stressing the wastefulness that occurs when a machine must be prematurely disposed of when a few, simple design/material changes would have solved the problem long ago.
Thanks for your follow-up. We all appreciate learning of the end result.
December 30th, 2008 at 2:34 am
My Kenmore front loader is starting to rumble LOUD half way through it`s cycle at the start of one of it`s tumbling washes, then the noise just quits. From what I`ve read I`m in for some repair soon. I have a twenty eight year old Maytag still sitting in my shed which I quit using four years ago when we bought the Kenmore. Appears as though I may have to put the old girl back in use as it still worked fine when I replaced it. The front load does use less detergent and water but man four years life ?
December 31st, 2008 at 2:43 am
I am selling a spider arm bracket only for $49. I had this same problem and acquired two arms (and drums) in the process of the repair. I’m selling the extra: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270324211480.
December 31st, 2008 at 5:03 am
Does anyone have a shaft that they want to sell, in great condition?
December 31st, 2008 at 5:07 am
Wanted to add, we need it for our Frigidaire front loader. The one Bill just posted is just a TINY bit different in some way.
January 3rd, 2009 at 5:59 pm
I have a Kenmore front loader purchased August of 2007. There is a knocking sound near the end of the final spin cycle. It looks like, from what I read here, is that a bearing may be going. There is no rocking to the drum so I am thinking the spider arm is ok. I won’t be able to tear the thing apart for a week or so. But before I do, is this the begining signs of the failure in the video at the top? It is a HE2 washer using liquid All (not the HE stuff, but will switch if that will make a difference)
January 4th, 2009 at 2:22 am
Mine made it just past 5 years, then it started sounding like I had a 747 taking off in my laundry room. These machines really are junk. I have already replaced the water metering valve job because it was leaking, now this? Just returned from my local Sears store to discuss my problems with a sales associate who knew absoutely nothing about these issues (or more than likely was told to keep their mouth shut).
I’m temped to yard this turd out of my laundry room and drop it in their parking lot.
January 4th, 2009 at 4:12 am
I HAVE HAD TWO FRONT LOADER THAT WENT DOWN BECAUSE OF THE CHEAP SPIDER ARMS. Have repaired both myself then decided to go back to a top loader. It’s not worth the trouble until the spider arms are made from steele as they should have been. There is too heavy a load put on those three arms and it is a design made to break so that sears or whoever can get more money from parts. Kind of the same thing when you buy a inkjet printer at a good price but the ink to use it is as costly as the machine itself. Does that ring a bell with anyone? home appliances are made to break nowdays.
January 5th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
“The two springs that suspend the plastic tub cut through the eyelets on the tub” - this same thing happened to me on a front-load frigidaire, 3 years young. I opened up the washer and diagnosed the problem myself… I realized quickly that it wasn’t going to be a cheap repair - whole tub would need replacement - I ended up fashioning a hook out of a coat hanger, and re-attaching the spring to the tub. It took a fair bit of fiddly work, but it seems to be holding. Clearly this is a design flaw in the tub itself and a recall should be issued by frigidaire.
January 6th, 2009 at 2:51 am
Just Dismantled my 4.75 yr old Kenmore HE3 washer after three loads of loud rapping. My wife thought it was unbalanced loads, but after researching the web & reading your informative articles, I find myself in the same predicament as the other kenmore owners. Broken spider bracket arms. There are pieces missing in mine that MUST have disintergrated. I am a welder/mechanic by trade, and this deterioration can only be from faulty metal casting. I’m going to try taking the failed part to Sears parts outlet. I’ll keep you posted!
Ben from Baltimore
January 8th, 2009 at 4:25 am
My Frigidaire version of the same machine self destructed yesterday. Some brief research online suggested the cause, and sure enough when I disassembled the entire unit this morning and split the case on the outer tub I was not surprised in the least to find two of the three spider arms fractured. Only 1 arm left intact and ridiculous corrosion consuming the entire spider arm assembly.
I was quoted $248 Canadian for a replacement inner basket/ spider assembly, but am reluctant to throw away good money after bad. Remarkable how the inner basket is warranted for 25 years, yet it’s integral spider bracket is not. If the warranty is independent of one another, it should be reasonable to expect that they can be purchased separately. Convenient for Frigidaire and the parts industry, isn’t it?
I negotiated a nice deal on a new Whirlpool 4.0 cu.ft. Duet today. Hope it does not have aluminum spider arms!!!!
Jeff
January 8th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
Had the same Catastrophic failure to my Kenmore Elite HE3 after only 4 1/2 years of service. Spider arm disintergration and Outer Tub damage. After taking to Sears and reading these posts, I’ve opted to scrap the $1000 P.O.S., and buy a new Whirlpool Toploader for $400. After being jerked around by Sears, I’m definitely not giving them any more business. I know the machine is made by another company, but the fact they won’t fix it under warranty and there is no Recall or service bulliten about this problem really frustrates me. Corporate greed or ignorance, I don’t know which is at fault here, but I feel Sears may be going the way of Montgomery Wards!!!
January 8th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
Just a thought, before these washers destruct, or if replacing with a new spider arm, would it work to have the spider arms sprayed or coated with an automotive clear coat, at least to protect it from any water or detergent damage ? Seems to me like it would prolong the life of the spider arm at least.
January 8th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Powder coating, rustproofing, or using stamped stainless as the material will probably improve longevity, if done at the factory. This seems like a case of planned obsolesance to me????
January 8th, 2009 at 4:47 pm
Most first experience with Frigidaire products was 25 years ago when we bought a Frigidaire refrigerator. What a piece of junk that was.
Now we have a front loading Kenmore washer which we find was made by Frigidaire. The bearing is in the process of going although we’ve apparently been lucky and got 8 years of washing out of it.
Our solution is identical to our previous Frigidaire solution: scrap it. Why spend money repairing a poorly designed piece of junk?
I wonder if Frigidaire will be asking for a piece of the “bail-out” money? LOL
January 8th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Interesting blog considering a Sears repairman just left telling me the spider arm was broken due to my use of Oxy-CLean! He said the corrosion that broke the arm was due to oxidation of the aluminum arm as a result of my using this particular product. ANd yes, the same as everyone else, a $75 examiniation fee and a estimate of an additional $483 to repair with a 90 day warranty. Of course I could also purchase an extended warranty for one year @ $110 for all parts and labor. I think we are going to look into a top load cheap model assuming that America’s best is only made to last 2-3 years; why repair when you can replace. Those were the days when we paid to repair quality, now it’s a throw away society. Amen!
January 8th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
Just a reminder:
If you are just posting a complaint to this board, do not call it a day and go buy something else.
What you need to do is file a complaint with Sears or whomever you bought the defective machine from - verbal or better yet in written form. Getting some one on the phone or email is pretty easy. Make it known to these people that you will file a complaint with the Better Business and Federal Trade Commission. If you do not follow through you are doing yourself and others a disservice.
Some likely outcomes might be - a hefty rebate on your faulty machine (cash in pocket) rather than possibly a percentage off the purchase of a new unit.
I can not divulge the terms and conditions of my settlement but I was more than pleased. It did take threats of doing the actions I mentioned and even going to the extent of filing with both agencies. Within a week the manufacturer I dealt with was more than willing to settle.
So if your not happy with the outcome of your situation, then you have no one to blame but your self. Companies will settle if you push the point.
The BBB and FTC can be accessed online….google it.
January 8th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
Thanks Mehere for the advice.
Both myself & Wife work & cannot take a day off to have a repairman come by and tell me what I already discovered and charge me $80 to do it.
I create alot of dirty laudry, working for a Laudry detergent manufacturer as a pipefitter/welder. That’s right, we make the laundry detergent!
I cannot sit around and wait for Sears to send a guy over to give me an estimate, then haggle over who is going to pay for the repair blah, blah, blah. I NEED my clothes washed!
The cheapest I could get the repair done, replacing the spider bracket myself, was $173 for just the Basket assembly & Spider bracket. This wouldn’t have cured the shredding of the front outer tub, but the washer would have worked.
If you’re going to DIY, be sure to check the pump strainer at the bottom of the washer. That’s where the missing spider bracket pieces are, clogging up the pump! That’s probably another contributing factor to the detergent build up & corrosion of the spider arm.
The fact that the front boot was blackened & Moldy, the inner tub was moldy & smelly, and the washer in general was constructed rather cheesily, led me to purchase a new top loader & cut my losses. This is a forum for experience with Appliances, correct?
I purchased another Whirlpool product, manufacturer of the last machine I own, I believe. I bought the front load on advise from a friend & I’m anxious to see how his HE3 Elite will fare! Judging from these posts and other internet sites, Failure is inevitable! I’m just trying to get the word out to others.
Ben
January 9th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
I am selling a new spider arm on Ebay right now. Auction ends tonight. Save yourself a lot of money!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270324211480
January 10th, 2009 at 10:13 am
Bill:
Your Ebay listing states that your Kenmore Washer is Model 110.45862400.
According to Appliance Journal’s entry in this blog, all Kenmore Washer Models starting with 110 are manufactured by Whirlpool. Are you sure your Ebay listed Whirlpool spider arm will fit the majority of Frigidaire built Kenmore models discussed on this site?
January 11th, 2009 at 3:03 am
Kenmore Front Loader Bearing Repair Tips.
- It’ not a bad job but takes a little time.
- I removed everything from the drum first like motor, water lines, shocks ( Squeeze the tabs on the end of the pins for removal.) Disconnect wiring harness’s on motor and panel. Remove top. ( 4 screws on back of panel and then slide forward to remove.) Remove gasket from door opening. (Carefully roll the gasket away from the body and you’ll find that it is spot glued to hold it in place so I used a chisel to scrape it away from the frame and at the same time not to tear the gasket.)
- After everything is removed from the drum and the only thing that’s holding it up is the springs roll it over on it’s left side facing the washer and remove the springs. Slowly remove the drum and concrete (Hitec). from the frame.
- Next separate the tub halves by removing the many screws holding it together, theres a ton of them. If it makes it apart without ruining the gasket you can probably reuse it. Make sure you see how the gasket lays in the housing. On mine there was a red dot which lined up with a space in the channel on the tub to keep the splice above the water level, put back the same way. I also washed the gasket in hot water to remove the scale and the channel on the tubs to. The hot water will also help to expand the gasket which will help to seal when replaced.
- Now that it’s apart go ahead and hammer on the end of the drum shaft to remove. (pulley off, slowly rock pulley back and fourth while at the same time pulling, it will come off ). Use something betwen the shaft and your hammer so you don’t ruin the end of the shaft.
- Then remove drum from spider arm. Pry gently between arm and barrel preferably laying a piece of wood across barrel so not to dent.
-Remove bearing from housing by using a long puch or pipe tapping carefully……it takes a few blows to knock them out.
- I went to a Bearing store to buy new bearings and along with the bearings I got some good advice. These are a common type bearing, usually in stock. Go with a sealed bearing verses shielded…way better and there also Japanese made verses Chinese. I paid $35 for the and $25 for the bearings The seal they didn’t stock but the guy at the counter looked at it and seen that it was grease filled and said he would just clean the seal and regrease it. The grease is what makes the seal plus you are now using a sealed bearing instead of a shielded one so it’s not quite as critical.
- Clean up the housing to recieve the new bearings and tap them in using the old ones as between the hammer and the new bearing. Install seal.
- Reattach drum to spider shaft, slide shaft back into drum and reassemble. You might use a longer bolt and some spacers to pull shaft back into drum, working it back into place being you can’t beat on it.
- This was a experimental process and after reading all the helpful advice on this site while throwing in my own 2-bits by going with the better bearings. If I would have ruined something when disassembling I probably would of went the Sears route with the 1/2 drum assembly.
Cheers Dave
January 11th, 2009 at 11:19 pm
Dave Robb:
Thanks for your bearing replacement procedure and helpful tips.
It appears you didn’t find it necessary to replace the old spider arm. Could you please tell us the age and condition of your original spider arm and if you re-used the original arm rather than replacing with new.
Also, please give us the part numbers and manufacturer for those Sealed Bearings.
And please elaborate on this line from your entry, as the dollar figures and what they apply to is confusing: ” I paid $35 for the (?) and $25 for the bearings.”
Again, thanks for sharing your experience with all of us!
January 13th, 2009 at 4:17 am
Hi David: The bearings are made by Nachi-Fujikosho-Quest, Bearing #’s are 6307-2NSE9(inner) and 6306-2NSE9. The price corresponds to the inner bearing which is the largest hence $35 outer is $25. I purchased them at Kaman bearing in Everett, WA. 425-259-5585. I just looked up bearings in the yellow pages and that was the closest place and they just cross referenced the #’s on the Kenmore (chinese) bearings. I probably didn’t need to replace the outer one but ruined it taking it apart. Probably any Bearing store will have quality bearings,they usually sell to industry most of the time and once in awhile a DIY walks in the door.
I didn’t replace the spider arm being I was mostly concerned with the bearings and hadn’t read far enough in this forum : ). The washer was about 7 years old. But mine was a little pitted but fine though I didn’t look at it real hard, it works and if I don’t over load the machine it should last awhile and where do you stop when replacing parts on these things and the next time I have to work on this it should go alot faster being the learning curve will be shorter. I can see one issue with powder detergents in that it gets compacted in the webbed part of the casting where the spider arms connect which might help it corrode by holding moisture and water, never dry’s out. Get’s moldy to.I don’t know if I mentioned it in the above but I think if the door was left open when not in use the drum would have a chance to dry out and you would eliminate the mold problem and it would probably help with corrosion issue to.
I didn’t mention in the above about removing the concrete once the drum is removed before separating the 1/2’s and removing the door gasket which is also connected to the soap dispenser and is fastened with a twisted wire. Just untwist this wire the right way and you can probably reuse it.
Cheers Dave
January 13th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
I also leave the door open as to keep the inside dry and aired out, makes sense. Sister inlaw owns the Maytag pair that has the slanted front loaders, they really smell from musty - moldy stagnant water.
January 14th, 2009 at 10:03 am
Dave Robb:
Thanks for the update on the bearing part numbers and additional details about the procedure for repair.
Please view the youtube video at the top of this blog/discussion. Note the owner has the removed tub intact, complete with door gasket and detergent dispenser still attached. In your experience removing the tub assembly, do you think it is possible to remove the components attached/together as shown in the video? If yes, this would help eliminate the need to reattach the door gasket to the outer/plastic tub, along with water inlet tube reconnection. Additionally, with the detergent dispenser hose still attached to the plastic tub, it would seem to help eliminate some unnecessary reconnection of the dispenser hose to the tub. Let us know if you think everything can be removed together as shown in the video.
Again, thanks for sharing your experience with all of us!
January 14th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Yes you could do it this way but I don’t know if it would weaken the frame assembly for reassembling being the backs off to. It seems like you would need some kind of x-bracing then. It looks like he had this all apart to shoot the video and I don’t know if he put it together again.
I would leave the gasket attached to the tub being if it’s not leaking now it probably won’t be after you put it back together. But if you remove the tub gasket from the outer shell I’m guessing the gasket would have to take a new seat, and it might not leak.
On the door gasket or outer tub gasket. I didn’t recement it to the door frame and it seems to work fine. It interlocks with the frame and I didn’t see a reason to glue it being the door just compress’s against it for a seal.
It looks like to on the video the detergent got the best of the spider arm and if your arms look as bad as the ones in the video I would probably replace them. He mentions the difference in metals but I would probably go with the detergent trapped in the casting being you would probably get the most of the electrolisis where the arms contact the drum.
Cheers Dave
January 14th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
I took the unit apart recently. You can not remove the 20+ bolts holding the tow outer tubs together unless you remove the whole tub assembly from the case. This includes the door gasket.
Here is a video showing the dismantle. I didn’t reassemble because Electrolux offered 50% rebate on a new unit after repeated calls. I will update the video once I receive the check.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoIMCVi1m9k
I hope this helps.
January 14th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Dave Robb:
I think you’ll be OK with the no cement on the outer door gasket because the old Westinghouse LT570’s and LT870’s front-loaders used no cement and only relied on the gasket being captured by the metal channel of the door opening on the front cabinet panel.
With the increase in noticeable noise during spin, I’m getting my replacement bearings together and plan on replacing them before a major breakdown where ceased bearings could damage the spider/tub shaft due to abrasion of the shaft.
As always, thanks for your response! Soon, everyone will become expert at bearing and tub replacements on their Frigidaire built front-load washers…Not something Frigidaire should be too proud of!
January 14th, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Graham Hardie:
In the first video at top of this blog, it appears the owner removed the tub with the gasket still attached to the outer/plastic tub? He only removed the gasket from the front cabinet panel. Is it possible to remove the tub with the door gasket still attached to the outer tub, as shown in the first video?
January 16th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
Dave Yes……… Use a razor blade to strip rubber boot glued to front panel. Second, the water filler tub is secured to rubber boot by clip. Remove clip from boot surrounding filler tube and be sure not to cut into rubber boot too much when using razor blade to free boot at glue point. If gasket is left seated in rear shell reuse it. It will not leak. A bead of silicone can be used to insure watertightness if one feels the gasket has been compromised. I never re glued my boot to the front panel. It has not leaked at all. If you choose not to re glue boot to panel the only way it will come apart is if the spider bracket breaks and or shock absorbers are defective. In short if the machine spins without violent vibration an unglued boot will be secured by a closed and locked door! This scam continues and consumers continue to be victimized!
January 17th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
I have a Sears front loader. I bought it about 6 years ago and have only used HE liquid soap. About 2 years ago the mother board went out at around $160. Fortunately it is an easy 15 minute part exchange. The tub has been leaking at the seal for probably 3 or 4 years, my floor is concrete and has a drain so I have been able to ignore it. Two weeks ago apparently the spider broke. I will fix it since the motor seems to be going strong.
I paid extra for a 3 year warranty, ha ha.
Thank goodness for the internet and all the people who have posted video and advice. You have saved me many times.
January 24th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
I was having problems with My front load washer and was looking for a manual on how to take apart this washer when I ran into this website. After viewing this video I took apart my machine and found the exact same problem as everyone else. I did catch it in time before the screws went through the plastic outer drum, but the spider was cracked on all three legs and badly corroded. The bearings feel fine, but due to the made in china on the bearing I am replacing them with bearing from a local bearing supplier for $19.00 each. I am still debating on the seal, but I will see if the supplier can get that as well. Sears has gave me the cost of $199.99 and a $20.00 delivery + taxes. I Think that painting the new spider when it comes in is a good idea. I am also thinking of powder coating at one of the suppliers at my work to see if that makes it last longer. I don’t want to have to keep taking this apart every 4 years.
January 26th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
I purchased a kenmore front load washer in richmond, ky 11-28-01. It
gave out in May of 2006. The repariman told me the motherboard was defective and I would have to replace the board. The quote he gave me was $400. I was very disgusted! I refused to pay this much when I could buy a new top load for less than this. After reading the blogs, I suspect the motherboard wasn’t the only problem. I thought the washer was unbalanced on its last load and it damaged the motherboard. I now think I had the same problems with the spider arms.
Less than a year later, I decided to purchase another front load. I liked the fact that the front load used less water and it seemed to reduce the wear on my clothing. Also, we had started building a house and I wanted to be able the stack my washer and dryer. I decided to buy the same Kenmore model so I would not have to buy another dryer. I purchased it 4-9-07. Guess what! Yes, you got it. It gave out yesterday. Now it won’t fill with water. I wonder what is really wrong with it. It did even last 2 years this time.
I called the Sears store where I purchased the washer. They gave me the number of One Source. They offered $150 off the service call and labor and $100 off the part. I was not happy with this. I told them I knew about all the problems with this model and I wanted Sears to replace my washer. They in turn give me the phone number for National Customer Relations Retail–owned by Sears. They told me they couldn’t do anymore than One Source. This whole situation is ridiculous.
January 27th, 2009 at 3:16 am
hello and thanks for all the helpful tips from everyone regarding the kenmore frontload washers. I have just replaced the outer tub assembly (bearings) and the inner tub,spider armm and shaft on mine after 5 years of trouble free washing, learned alot and found video most helpful. Anyway my problem now that its all reassembled is that the washer works and will go into high final speed spin ONLY when it hasn’t any clothes in! If there is a load (not a big load) it just doesn’t go into the high spin out at the end and so clothes are dripping wet! Any ideas or anyone had a similiar problem? I’ve spent alot of time and $300 on parts but still haven’t a functioning washer. please help!
January 27th, 2009 at 3:32 am
Did you clean out the pump strainer while you had the washer apart?
Ben
January 27th, 2009 at 4:18 am
It could be a slipping belt, grease on the pulley etc. So thats why it runs without a load. I’m just wing’s it being I haven’t dealt with this issue yet. A loose wire which doesn’t seem right being it does work with no load.
I had kind of the same trouble with mine after I reassembled it and it was a loose connection on the water pump. All I did was move the connector around abit and then it would drain again. The wire got bumped or something.
Out of these suggestions I would probably go with the slipping belt.
Good luck Dave
January 27th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Any body need spare parts for a Kenmore Elite HE3 washer can find them on eBay under Kenmore HE3 search. Hope this helps.
January 27th, 2009 at 5:37 pm
Now, after reading all of this, has anyone purchased a new appliance instead of repairing the old one, and if so, what front loading washer have you/they purchased that isn`t having the same trouble now.
January 28th, 2009 at 12:46 am
WOW- SOMEONE SHOULD GET A CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT GOING AGAINST SEARS. WE PURCHASED OUR FRONT LOADER, MODEL 417.41052000, WASHER IN THE FALL OF 2001. ITS BEEN MAKING THOSE TYPICAL BANGING NOISES FOR A FEW MONTHS NOW. ITS HELD OUT BECAUSE WE DON’T USE THE MACHINE THAT OFTEN (just the 2 of us) BUT ITS GOING TO BLOW SOON! WHAT A PIECE OF GARBAGE.
THIS SOUNDS LIKE FRAUD TO US. YOU MEAN TO TELL US THE MANUFACTURER ISN’T AWARE THAT STEEL AND ALUMINUM ARE INCOMPATIBLE? HARDLY…. THEY KNOW ALL RIGHT. ITS PROBABLY A SCAM TO GET THE STRUGGLING CONSUMER TO PURCHASE EXORIBANTLY PRICED PARTS, LABOR/SERVICE CALLS OR A NEW MACHINE ALL TOGETHER.
WELL, I’LL TELL YOU ONE THING- IF I DO GET A NEW MACHINE, IT WILL NEVER BE A KENMORE AGAIN! THEY’RE JUST KILLING THEMSELVES, AS WORD REALLY TRAVELS FAR AND SWIFTLY THESE DAYS VIA THE INTERNET!
SEARS DESERVES TO GO BELLY-UP! SHAME ON THEM!
January 30th, 2009 at 4:47 am
our kenmore front loader is 5years old and the bearings are gone which caused the packing grease to leak into the tub and stain our clothes with grease streaks. it cost us 75.00 for sears to come out and tell us it would cost 550.00 to repair.. guess what? no more kenmore anyone know anything about boschor samsung?
January 30th, 2009 at 11:18 am
Gary:
As a past Regional Service Manager for Bosch, (B/S/H/ Home Appliances Corporation) I can tell you we had many service problems with Spin Cycle Vibration, due to what was believed to be inadequate suspension for wooden floors. Never install the Bosch on a wooden flooring structure, unless the floor is of a super strong, reinforced design, see installation manual for details.
Additionally, the Bosch machines would shut down and display error
codes, due to minor oversudsing, as they are very sensitive to
detergent type and amount used. HE detergent types are recommended, powder or liquid.
When shopping and examining dealer display Bosch models, please note
the Bosch clumsy door that commonly goes out of alignment with the door catch/lock mechanism. And the door is very heavy, resulting in the door sagging, which causes the misaligned door to snag/stick to the rubber door gasket. And, when the washer is off, the door must remain fully open or closed; it will not stay partially open for airing, due to the weight and angle of the door.
February 9th, 2009 at 2:18 pm
We bougt our front load washer 6 years ago and on Saturday it just exploded (that’s the best way I can discribe the sound). My husband opened the bottom part of the machine and laying in the bottom is what looks like a curved brick. I guessing by what I’m reading on this blog and others this machine is toast. I’m just wondering if anybody else has had the brick fall out and what is it’s purpose?
February 9th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
Rhonda…it just sounds like the counterweight has slipped. Is there any evidence of damage to the tub (ie. holes, water on the floor)? You may be able to simply lift the counterweight (the curved brick) back into place and tighten the bolts that hold it in place…
The other question would be is there any knocking or violent shaking when the washer is running (and everything is in place)?
February 10th, 2009 at 1:16 pm
I am so glad I bought a Staber horizontal axis washer. The company was started by an appliance repair man out in Ohio, who got tired of fixing all the junk that is out there. I’ve had quite a few calls over the last year to fix the Kenmore machine, and I have begun to tell them it’s just not worth it.
February 16th, 2009 at 4:25 am
Just be wary, our kenmore 100 washer, exploded! Literally it exploded. Sounded like a truck crashed.
February 16th, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Ours did the same! Drum came aprt! Remaining parts are for sale on eBay under Kenmore Elite, HE3!
February 16th, 2009 at 11:04 pm
Ours has the clunking problem. I checked the shocks. They seem to be fine.
I work in the auto body business. If the spider arms are bustified in the back, which surely they must be, I’m wondering if I could panel bond or JBWeld ™ them back together. Granted those materials are generally meant for static repairs (qtr panels which have been adhesively bonded [honda, others]), I wonder how long it would hold up.
Eh well, I was stupid enough to pay a repair man to come out and take a look without checking ye’ole interknot. Guess we’ll run out the one we have and get another when it expires completely.
Best Regards,
Justin
February 17th, 2009 at 2:05 am
Justin,
If you catch it early enough, you can salvage the Outer Drum. If you continue to run the washer with the cracked brackets, it will start leaking on the floor after it etches the plastic outer drum! The Spider bracket is either white metal or aluminum.I’m guessing Galvanic corrosion contributing to the extensive corrosion, with the bracket arms being Aluminum/pot metal, and the inner drum Stainless. Make sure the pump strainer is clean. That’s where all the broken metal pieces end up! Hope this helps.:-\
Ben
February 19th, 2009 at 4:02 am
I have one of the Whirlpool version HE3 110.44832200 purchased in mid-2003. A couple months ago it threw a belt. It also squeaks and groans a lot more than it used to. I replaced the belt (twice) now, and it just threw it again. The large pulley that turns the drum appears to loosen easily causing it to throw the belt, and my attempts at tightening it seem to only last a couple weeks. Are the bearings shot? Is fixing this feasible, or do I avoid the $$$ repair bills and buy a new machine (not a Kenmore)?
February 25th, 2009 at 8:10 pm
R.I.P.
Kenmore front loader-417
Feb.2005 - Feb.2009
4 yrs. young-Died uexpectantly this week due to premature spider bracket failer.
GEEZ!–HAS ANYONE ELSE HAD THIS PROBLEM?!!!!!!! WHO’S THE GENIUS THAT DESIGNED A WASHING MASHINE THAT IS SENSITIVE TO SOAP AND WATER???
$115.00 for a tech to tell me that it would cost
$750.00 to fix a
$600.00 appliance.Wish I knew about this site B-4 I bought that piece of $#!+ from Sears. I thought Sears was known for their quality products and customer service but I guess times have changed.
…AND WHERE’S THE JUSTICE???? How many complaints have to be cast before some kind of national legal action takes place to stop them from ripping off consumers since they (sears/kenmore)) don’t have the ethics to step up and come clean about the faulty products they are pushing???
February 28th, 2009 at 12:46 am
Drum assembly, spin basket
Number:131618500 $200.99 In stock
Quantity Add To Cart
http://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/getSubComp.pd?modelNumber=41729042992&productCategoryId=0153200&brandId=0582&modelName=FRONT-LOAD-WASHER&diagramPageId=00003&componentDescription=DRUM/MOTOR&documentId=P0010757&backToLink=Return%20to%20Sub%20Components%20list